There must be a shitload of posts which mock Jagger for his poor lyrics, for his flirting with pop, and so on and so forth. Lots of credit for his part of the song making within the Stones, but lots of bullshiting towards Mick for his contibution. Yet, the ONE album Keith is really in charge Dirty Work, the album gets titles as the worst record ever, worst songs, worst cover, worst sound..... To me that is a big contradiction.

there was no cohesion in the band, and they made a crappy record (tho I like some of it). Whats the problem.....I guess at this point they were wanting to use their best songs for solo projects

I do agree that it is weird Keith could make a fabulous solo album so soon after

Like Keith says: he writes songs for Jagger to sing. When Jagger doesn't hold up his end of the deal we get Dirty Work.
Now on Keith's solo albums he was writing songs with his lead vocals in mind all the way.

I agree with LetItLoose and Palace all the way. And I'll add that Talk Is Cheap, imo, is the best of all releases, Stones and solo, after Undercover (which I love and consider the last great Stones record). Others deserve merit, of course, but the band was out of sorts for DW, and it shows... Not Keith's fault!

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NedKelly
There must be a shitload of posts which mock Jagger for his poor lyrics, for his flirting with pop, and so on and so forth. Lots of credit for his part of the song making within the Stones, but lots of bullshiting towards Mick for his contibution. Yet, the ONE album Keith is really in charge Dirty Work, the album gets titles as the worst record ever, worst songs, worst cover, worst sound..... To me that is a big contradiction.

Keith and Ronnie wrote most of the songs.

Charlie being strung out and AWOL part of the time didnt exactly help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 02:57 by Gazza.

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Tate
Others deserve merit, of course, but the band was out of sorts for DW, and it shows... Not Keith's fault!

keith was in the band wasn't he? How could it not be at least 20% his fault, if the band puts out a bad album?

I love this album. With the exception of BTZ, I think the guitars on this are really biting and harsh. The anger was out and I like the stones when they are on edge vs. a sweet likee on Steel wheels

Not contradictory at all. It proved the two Glimmers needed each other to make compelling Rolling Stones music. If anyone was curious to know what an album of Keith and Ronnie messing around would sound like, DW was their answer. Say what you will about Mick phoning it in and not touring, that record proved that his full involvement in his part of the Stones' leadership was absolutely vital.

Listening to DW right now on my new turntable after many years hiatus, and I gotta say (as Keith would say) Too Rude has the worst production/effects I've ever heard on a Stones album. I always kind of liked the song, because I first heard it on Keith's live album from '88. Now for the tough part...side two.

The one Stones album I never bought although I struggled through listening through the entire thing- I think twice. It's great if some people love it but I think it is utter shite. It's kind of like if I hate beets and enough people hype up how wonderful beets are then it might get me to try them one more time before I say @#$%& it I really hate beets and I will never eat them again.

After finishing side two, I gotta say (as Keith would say) "Had It With You" is actually a keeper. It's up there with "Mean Disposition" from VL. Love that live sound.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-03 08:40 by Sipuncula.

The contradiction is not that the album is bad or not, but the fact that a lot of people on this board hazzles Jagger for his contributions on several albums, like "a shitty song - typical Jagger pop stuff", og "this just a Jagger outtake" and so on.... And Keith gets all the credit if there's a good song somewhere. But when finally Keith's in charge, it gets the worst reviews ever. I find that a bit strange. To me, it's always best to have the two of them involved, but there are still lots of great songs where one of them are clearly in charge.
If DW is the worst album they've ever made, I don't know. I surely play it a lot more than Satanic, which I don't think I ever have played from the first to the last song.

Dirty work is not much worser than Undercover, just slightly...

2 1 2 0

Awww well remember De Niro once gave us Raging Bull now it's Little Fockers....Now that's dirty work



ROCKMAN

dirty work has a few quite good songs, it also holds some of their worst

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Rockman
Awww well remember De Niro once gave us Raging Bull now it's Little Fockers....Now that's dirty work

Just saw Little Fockers...
DeNiro is the only reason to watch it.
I thought he did a good job in that series.
I know what you're saying in regard to his movie choices - but he ALWAYS made some odd choices...

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Cafaro
I love this album. With the exception of BTZ, I think the guitars on this are really biting and harsh. The anger was out and I like the stones when they are on edge vs. a sweet likee on Steel wheels

Great guitar sound...too bad the song writing sucks.

Nothing wrong with the guitar sound on this album. I bet Mick had something to do (together with Steve Lillywhite) with the drums and the synths, though

I'll admit this is a back-handed compliment, but DIRTY WORK is a great album to exercise to, just because of the number of fast numbers. So I play it for work out sessions and so am glad the Stones made it as it helps me stay fit and trim!

Also, it's fashionable to prefer Keith to Mick, just like it's fashionable to prefer John to Paul. Mick is my favorite Stone, and I'm aware that makes me "less pure" a Stones fan in some people's eyes.

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Title5Take1
I'll admit this is a back-handed compliment, but DIRTY WORK is a great album to exercise to, just because of the number of fast numbers. So I play it for work out sessions and so am glad the Stones made it as it helps me stay fit and trim!

makes you that much more looking forward to the end of your dirty work-out too, right?

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StonesTod

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Title5Take1
I'll admit this is a back-handed compliment, but DIRTY WORK is a great album to exercise to, just because of the number of fast numbers. So I play it for work out sessions and so am glad the Stones made it as it helps me stay fit and trim!

makes you that much more looking forward to the end of your dirty work-out too, right?

In fact it makes me exercise longer than I otherwise would.

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DandelionPowderman
Nothing wrong with the guitar sound on this album. I bet Mick had something to do (together with Steve Lillywhite) with the drums and the synths, though

but both Glimmer Twins are responsible for the whole production. If we give credit to keith for the masterpiece records of the '60s--not just the guitar work--we need to fault him for the productions we don't like, too.

I was 18 then and this album was great excitement for me.It was interesting mixture of an effort of beying fashionable and real anger and wildness.Now it`s a real document then it was living piece of Rolling Stones so i know that critizying DW is en vogue but this is good record and a part of Stones story.

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DandelionPowderman
Nothing wrong with the guitar sound on this album. I bet Mick had something to do (together with Steve Lillywhite) with the drums and the synths, though

but both Glimmer Twins are responsible for the whole production. If we give credit to keith for the masterpiece records of the '60s--not just the guitar work--we need to fault him for the productions we don't like, too.

That´s true, although some of the songs on DW have amazing sound, imo (DW, HS, Fight, HIWY, OHTTB and ST).

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Title5Take1
DIRTY WORK is a great album to exercise to, just because of the number of fast numbers. So I play it for work out sessions and so am glad the Stones made it as it helps me stay fit and trim!

Also, it's fashionable to prefer Keith to Mick, just like it's fashionable to prefer John to Paul. Mick is my favorite Stone, and I'm aware that makes me "less pure" a Stones fan in some people's eyes.

+1 ..
There's someone who's understood this album....just read the cartoon sleeve, follow the cue and reap the reward.....also great for dirty workouts too..............



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-01-04 00:06 by EddieByword.

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DandelionPowderman

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DandelionPowderman
Nothing wrong with the guitar sound on this album. I bet Mick had something to do (together with Steve Lillywhite) with the drums and the synths, though

but both Glimmer Twins are responsible for the whole production. If we give credit to keith for the masterpiece records of the '60s--not just the guitar work--we need to fault him for the productions we don't like, too.

That´s true, although some of the songs on DW have amazing sound, imo (DW, HS, Fight, HIWY, OHTTB and ST).

Guitar sounds are not songs. The "fault" lies in Mick and Keith not being able to work together to contribute enough quality Rolling Stones songs to make a credible album. In the "masterpiece records of the 60s" the band was firing on all cylinders and Mick & Keith were writing great songs. On DW, the Glimmers were barely speaking to each other, Charlie was in terrible shape and the songwriting for the most part was seriously sub-par. Personally I cannot get interested in listening to an album solely because of good guitar or drum sounds.

I said sound, not guitar sound in my last post. I´ll take songs like Had it With You and Sleep Tonight any day over Short And Curlies and Till The Next Goodbye. A similar pair of songs, but with remarkably difference in sound - as in the songs´s sound.

I agree with your points, though, 71Tele.

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DandelionPowderman
I said sound, not guitar sound in my last post. I´ll take songs like Had it With You and Sleep Tonight any day over Short And Curlies and Till The Next Goodbye. A similar pair of songs, but with remarkably difference in sound - as in the songs´s sound.

I agree with your points, though, 71Tele.

Point taken, DP. My apologies.

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NedKelly
The contradiction is not that the album is bad or not, but the fact that a lot of people on this board hazzles Jagger for his contributions on several albums, like "a shitty song - typical Jagger pop stuff", og "this just a Jagger outtake" and so on.... And Keith gets all the credit if there's a good song somewhere. But when finally Keith's in charge, it gets the worst reviews ever. I find that a bit strange. To me, it's always best to have the two of them involved, but there are still lots of great songs where one of them are clearly in charge.
If DW is the worst album they've ever made, I don't know. I surely play it a lot more than Satanic, which I don't think I ever have played from the first to the last song.

Got a point. Dirty Work is awash in mediocre, repetitive riffs, cheesy lyrics and Mick's input was marginal. I'll also say that while I liked Talk is Cheap, Wandering Spirit, to this day, is the best Stones album since TYou. As Tele said, great guitar sounds are not songs. Talk is Cheap and Main Offender are nice because they sounded like the Stones, it was familiar. Also, Steve Jordan was a very prominant collaborator on these albums, so it wasn't all Keith. I'll be the first to slag Mick's 80s output, but fair is fair....Keith wasn't exactly charting new territory on his solo albums.