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TooTough
Dito.
But the same status for me has A Bigger Bang.
Both albums knocked me off my feet (in a positive way).
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
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DandelionPowderman
Some of the songs weren't nearly as good on record as they were live (OOC, FTS, MAWGJ).
You think "Might As Well Get Juiced" was better in it's sole live performance than on record? Interesting.
It blew the album version away! The NYC-performance was bluesy, raunchy and sexy. The B2B-version is interesting at best, imo.
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JHM
The spirit of Exile lives on in those last two Keith cuts, and Mick has never thought much of Exile -- except as a commercial vehicle.
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JHM
The spirit of Exile lives on in those last two Keith cuts, and Mick has never thought much of Exile -- except as a commercial vehicle.
what's the connection of those two cuts to the spirit of Exile?
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JHM
The spirit of Exile lives on in those last two Keith cuts, and Mick has never thought much of Exile -- except as a commercial vehicle.
what's the connection of those two cuts to the spirit of Exile?
and what are you talking about Mick has never thought much of Exile - who has? Have you? Did you write all the lirics and half or more of tunes on this album, did you sing the songs?
I can't stand this stupidity
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rollmops
I love BTB too. I still remember the very first time I listened to "Out of Control". As the song unfolded, I couldn't believe how good it was. One of those songs that was "love at first sight" and I still love it to this day.
Rock and Roll,
Mops
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Palace Revolution 2000Quote
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JHM
The spirit of Exile lives on in those last two Keith cuts, and Mick has never thought much of Exile -- except as a commercial vehicle.
what's the connection of those two cuts to the spirit of Exile?
and what are you talking about Mick has never thought much of Exile - who has? Have you? Did you write all the lirics and half or more of tunes on this album, did you sing the songs?
I can't stand this stupidity
Proudmary, are maybe misunderstanding what JHM is saying? I did not write it, but it seems to me JHM is only saying that Jagger has never spoken very highly of the final album. Which is true. he says he is not fond of the mix; and never saw any hits on it at first; and does not have many fun memories of Nellcote.
I THINK that is what JHM is saying, not that Jagger did not put any thought into it.
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Doxa
Okay, let's say something of it. To me it is the best of the post-1989 era albums. But that fact doesn't make it a masterpiece. Far from that.
I really liked the BLACK&BLUE comparison of the original post... For me the resemblance is based on the fact that in both albums there are some excellent songs, and over-all the quality of the songs is quite high (dispite some stinkers) but that the wholeness just doesn't come up right. Both albums are like collections of songs, but not really coherent albums that have a 'point'. That's maybe the biggest problem they have. I try to explain my point by first talking about the song material, and then about the 'cohesiviness' of the album.
Firs of all, there are probably some best quality individual songs Mick and Keith have brought to any Stones album since UNDERCOVER: "Saint of Me", "Out of Control", "How Can I Stop". Even the single song "Anybody Seen My Baby?" has a nice melodic hook in it, and it is nice dance song. Some cuts actually enlarge the Stones repertuare: "Flip The Switch" is a speed-up Eddic Cochran rocker that is bit too fast and breathy for them (and for me) but that's alright. "You Don't Have to Mean It" has a pure Caribbean atmospshere not any Stones song has been able to capture before it (not much tried before either). It is long, matured way from "Luxory" and "Cherry Oh Baby" to get there. Also Keith's demo-like, moody "Thief In The Night" is a daring try to do something different.
Then - secondly - there is the 'Stones-by-numbers' section. It has two sudivisions. All the rockers are type of songs Mick and Keith make a dozen half-sleep within a minute: "Low Down", "Gunface", "Too Tight" - a kind of stuff VOODOO LOUNGE has more than enough and A BIGGER BANG simply full of. They are equivalemt to "Hand of Fate" or "Crazy Mama" of BLACK&BLUE but without the inspiration and depthness of them (and even them have "by numbers" feeling in them already...). The ballad section is also as 'by-numbers' as it can be. "Already All over Me" and "Always Suffering" are so formulaic - starting from their titles - that their choruese is almost impossible to distinguish from each other. It makes one think if Jagger's muse has left the building for good. God, just think of "Melody Motel" or "Fool To Cry"... No don't!
Thirdly, there is one real stinker - "Might As Well Get Juiced". Probably the worst thing they ever done - at least seriously challenging "Back to Zero". It is the equilavent to "Cherry Oh Baby" that almost ruins the BLACK&BLUE (because having only 8 songs, each weights a lot). Jagger's worst vocals ever - miming a cow? - with the most idiotic production ideas. And all based on innocent basic (no brainer) three-chord blues-formula that now sounds like raped. The blues "modernized"? My ass. Were they totally out of their minds to release this crap?
Okay, that's the song material. Now the point how they work together.
I agree with some posters here that most of the songs are - typical to post-89 albums - half-baked, and therefore some of them might even sound better in live when they are worked 'further' (especially "Out of Control" and "Flip the Switch") . Then there are "odd" songs in wrong places. I'm with the poster who says "Thief In The Night" has a EXILE spirit but the problem with is that it needs a context that has EXILE spirit all over it. You take "JUst Wanna See His Face" out of EXILE and put to SOME GIRLS and it wouldn't work. The same is with "Thief".
But I think the very idea that kills the possibility of BRIDGES TO BABYLON to sound a coherent ROLLING STONES album is the decision over Keith's solo numbers. To include three Keith Richards solo songs to 13-song-album is way too much. The point is that Mick Jagger's voice is a distinguished part of The Rolling Stones sound, and to have three every fourth song without is a torso Rolling Stones music. If Keith wants to sing so much, I prefer him to do a solo album. To me it sounds like this Mick/Keith ego war proceeds sometimes with awful results, and I think this is one of those (I blame Keith here). When I first time listened the album and finding out it has not one but two slow Keith numbers to finish it, I thought "Jesus Christ, what a hell this means? Does Keith really think that he is a equal vocalist to Jagger nowadays or what is going on?". The point is not the quality of the songs (they are good like I've said) but I think it simply kills the cohereness of a Rolling Stones album. I've read about the reasons for their 'double-existence' but it doesn't change the result to sound as a very bad idea to dynamics of the album.
I need to admit that it took me years to really listen the album again and to see its worth above, say, VOODOO LOUNGE, and I think the reason simply was its uncohesiviness (and having a stinker like "Juiced", and not very convincing opener). It sounded like an album no really 'thought through' and like based on too many stupid compromise solutions. Those facts seemed to ruin the listening experince for me, and the possibility to appreciate the better sides of it.
- Doxa
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Tantekäthe
The good thing about "Bridges" is that even though songwriting-wise there is much by-numbers-painting on it (as is the case for all the post-Dirty-Work stuff), all the songs are carefully arranged and tastefully delivered so it is a smooth listen from beginning to end.
I do not get all the MAWGJ bashing (how can anyone dislike this little blues gem and praise a mediocre demo tune like "Back of My Hand" at the same time?), and I do not get the raving about OOC (weak attempt at "Papa was A Rolling Stone", for my taste at least).
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The Mez
Will we ever here the Keith's revenge Blues mix of Juiced someday? Hopefully will surface from the vaults sooner than later.
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JHM
The spirit of Exile lives on in those last two Keith cuts, and Mick has never thought much of Exile -- except as a commercial vehicle.
what's the connection of those two cuts to the spirit of Exile?
and what are you talking about Mick has never thought much of Exile - who has? Have you? Did you write all the lirics and half or more of tunes on this album, did you sing the songs?
I can't stand this stupidity
Proudmary, are maybe misunderstanding what JHM is saying? I did not write it, but it seems to me JHM is only saying that Jagger has never spoken very highly of the final album. Which is true. he says he is not fond of the mix; and never saw any hits on it at first; and does not have many fun memories of Nellcote.
I THINK that is what JHM is saying, not that Jagger did not put any thought into it.
I don't think there is any misunderstanding. I see what you and JHM mean and I don't agree with you. It is an old myth which, I hoped, has disappeared after re-issue of Exile last year
Extract from one of Jagger's interview but you can google Exile reissue and there are many of them
Q: You’ve never been particularly enthusiastic about “Exile” when you’ve been asked about it in subsequent interviews. Why is that?
A: I was being slightly annoying because people would always say, “Isn’t that your favorite?” And I would be a bit rebellious, just to annoy people who kept asking me if it was the best Stones record. I don’t have favorite records. I’m more familiar with songs when you put them on a set list for a show. It’s not a period, it’s just a song. And since you don’t play the whole record in a concert, you don’t really hear it as a record. You pick your favorites and find out what works live. For that reason, I don’t have a favorite Stones record.
Q: But “Exile” is now routinely cited as the best Stones record.
A: And it is a great record. What’s interesting about it is that it has so many sides to it, so many different musical styles, very bluesy, and it has soul, gospel, and the other quirky little bits that perhaps you wouldn’t have put on a record with only 12 songs. You would’ve thrown out stuff maybe like “Just Wanna See his Face,” but on a more sprawling record like this you could afford to let those things go. Which perhaps explain why it wasn’t immediately reviewed as stunningly wonderful. But after a while people get to appreciate the breadth of it.
Q: The record didn’t get great reviews at first
A: Oh, yeah. You know what reviewers do, they play the first three songs and then review the record.
Q: Thanks, man.
A: [Laughs] But you know what I mean. You can’t take in 18 tracks in a day. It’s hard. So you get through those four sides, it could take a while to really get the full picture. It’s a lot of stuff to get through. It took a while for the record to be appreciated for what it was.
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DandelionPowderman
I don't agree with the Black'n'Blue comparison. For me, there is clearly an idea behind B&B. It is a very "black" album music-wise - and black music is always close to the blues (so the title of the album could be a wordplay?).
You get funky rhythms (Hot Stuff, Hey Negrita), soul-ish ballads (Fool To Cry), reggae (Cherry Oh Baby), Cabaret-ish blues (Melody). The three last numbers are imo classic Stones (Memory Motel, Crazy Mama and Hand Of Fate).
Even on Hey Negrita they made room for a carribean-sounding bridge (Ronnie).
For me, B&B is one of the Stones albums with the clearest musical thread.
B2B sounds tossed together without a plan. It's just a collection of different songs. Had they omitted 4 or 5 numbers it could have turned out to be something entirely else, imo.
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DandelionPowderman
This version is ten times better than the studio recording, imo:
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DandelionPowderman
This version is ten times better than the studio recording, imo:
It is technically impossible to do worse than the original studio version, so, yeah, this version is better, but still about 2000 Light Years from good, listenable music. If it wasn't The Stones I would claim most of the folks here would laugh at it.
And by the way, if one wants to listen how The Stones convincingly "modernize" a blues tune with new sound experiments, take a listen to "2000 Light Years From Home"...
- Doxa