Well, everybody in the Altamont book - all witnesses and around Hunter - said he only drew that gun in panic when he was fleeing from the harrassing Angels to keep them away.Perhaps a mistake. He was with a girlfriend who told the story as well.
He's been a little crook but he just wanted to see the Stones - and not kill anybody not least Jagger!

I don't know why Cutler brings up these kinda stories now. Perhaps just to get some attention.

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slakka

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sweet neo con
has anybody found ( i will look too) any journalists' reports published immediately
after the Altamont concert in '69...before GS's release?? Most everything i read.....seems as if
the reporter is only writing about what we see in GS.

As I thought about the movie and interviewed a dozen people who either worked on it or attended the concert, several directed me toward the Jan. 21, 1970, Rolling Stone, which devoted 15 copy-crammed pages to Altamont under the headline, "Let It Bleed." It is often spoken of as the ultimate authority on the event. But when it comes to the widespread misrepresentation of the movie, I discovered, it was more like a smoking gun.
[webcache.googleusercontent.com]

thanks for the link slakka.....lots of insight there.


IORR............but I like it!

a portion of the MH wiki entry:

Lead singer Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones (who had already been punched by a concertgoer within seconds of emerging from his helicopter[4]) was visibly intimidated by the unruly situation, urging everyone to "Just be cool down in the front there, don't push around." Within a minute of starting their third song, "Sympathy for the Devil", a fight erupted in the front of the crowd, at the foot of the stage. After a lengthy pause and another appeal for calm, the band restarted "Sympathy" and continued their set with less incident until the start of "Under My Thumb". At this point, two of the Hell's Angels got into a scuffle with Hunter when he attempted to get onstage with other fans. One of the Hell's Angels grabbed Hunter's head, punched him, and chased him back into the crowd.

After a few seconds Hunter angrily returned to the front of the stage where, according to Gimme Shelter producer Porter Bibb, Hunter's girlfriend Patty Bredahoff found him and tearfully begged him to calm down and move further back in the crowd with her. By her report he was enraged, irrational and "so high he could barely walk". [5] Rock Scully, who could see the audience clearly from the top of a truck by the stage, noticed Hunter clearly in the crowd, remembering (in an unusually melodramatic fashion), that “I saw what he was looking at, that he was crazy, he was on drugs, and that he had murderous intent. There was no doubt in my mind that he intended to do terrible harm to Mick or somebody in the Rolling Stones, or somebody on that stage."[6]

At this point, footage from the documentary shows Hunter (seen in the film in a lime-green suit) drawing a long-barreled silver revolver from his jacket and pointing it toward the stage. It remains uncertain whether he was intending to aim at the Hells Angels or at the Rolling Stones. The film clearly shows a bright orange flash at the end of the pistol in one frame. The film then shows Hells Angel Alan Passaro, armed with a knife, running at Hunter from the side, parrying the gun with his left hand and stabbing him with his right. The footage was shot by Eric Saarinen who was on stage taking pictures of the crowd. Saarinen was unaware of having caught the incident on film. This was discovered more than a week later when rushes were screened in the New York offices of the Maysles Brothers.

In the film sequence, lasting about two seconds, a two-meter opening in the crowd appears, leaving Patty Bredahoff in the center. Hunter enters the opening from the left, his hand rises and the silhouette of a revolver is clearly seen against Bredahoff's bright crocheted dress. Passaro is seen entering from the right and delivering two stabs as he pushes Hunter off screen. The opening closes around Bredahoff. Passaro is reported to have stabbed Hunter five times in the upper back. Witnesses also reported Hunter was stomped on by several Hells Angels while he was on the ground. The gun was recovered and turned over to police. Hunter's autopsy later confirmed his girlfriend's report that he was heavily intoxicated on methamphetamine at the time of his death. [1][7][8]
[edit]


IORR............but I like it!

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Deltics
Well, if you can believe him, Sonny Barger reckons shots were fired:



From the Gimme Shelter DVD booklet.

Ha ha, good ol´Sonny Barger! Trustworthy...

Interesting that they state Hunter was heavily intoxicated with methamphetamine, no mention of the Angels who were tripping like maniacs on acid and therefore were more than likely seeing, and hearing things which simply weren't there!

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crumbling_mice
Interesting that they state Hunter was heavily intoxicated with methamphetamine, no mention of the Angels who were tripping like maniacs on acid and therefore were more than likely seeing, and hearing things which simply weren't there!

oh..re: H Angels....their drug use at Altamont well documented. Probably no mention here
because it was specifically a MEREDITH HUNTER wiki entry.


IORR............but I like it!

there are basically two points i'm trying to make.
1) any rolling stone article on altamont is tabloid journalism and exploitative. they are more worried about selling magazines and making money. with them blame equals visability, visability equals dollars.

2) there is a constant rationalization that there is no difference between having a gun pulled on you and being in a fist fight. no way are they the same. nothing stops a bullet.

the fact is we'll never know who the gun was being pointed at. but someone getting their rear-end kicked by "security" for the stones could easily shoot mick to get back at the stones. and the guy was close enough to do it.

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Edith Grove
Anyone have a still shot of the gun when it's in front of the girl's crocheted dress?

I seem to remember it looked like it had a pretty long barrel.
Perhaps it's just the way the camera caught it. Or perhaps it was a short barrel with a silencer.
Yeah, I know that sounds pretty far-fetched.

I'd still like to know what kind of gun it was.

I've just watch the sequence again and I can't see the gunflash as mentioned in the wiki article.


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

I could PaintShop some gun flashes to please Sam .............

__________________________

found this on youtube:






IORR............but I like it!

I could make an opposing story where MH is the hero of the day.

__________________________

I've watched the GS clips many many times and have never been able to make out any kind of flash...Hunter appears to pull the gun, his GF appears to try and push his arm down and then the Angel charges in with th blade...it's possible he shot the gun before the GS film picks him up....but I doubt it. If this were the case, the audience boots must have the gun shot, even with a silencer. I've searched my collection but can't find an audience recording...anyone out there got one they can check for us?

You cats are looking for something that doesn't even exist...

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Deltics

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Edith Grove
Anyone have a still shot of the gun when it's in front of the girl's crocheted dress?

I seem to remember it looked like it had a pretty long barrel.
Perhaps it's just the way the camera caught it. Or perhaps it was a short barrel with a silencer.
Yeah, I know that sounds pretty far-fetched.

I'd still like to know what kind of gun it was.

Either that's a shadow on the girl's dress, or that gun has a really long barrel.
I wonder if we have a gunsmith lurking here that can possibly identify this piece?

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Deltics

Quote
Edith Grove
Anyone have a still shot of the gun when it's in front of the girl's crocheted dress?

I seem to remember it looked like it had a pretty long barrel.
Perhaps it's just the way the camera caught it. Or perhaps it was a short barrel with a silencer.
Yeah, I know that sounds pretty far-fetched.

I'd still like to know what kind of gun it was.

I've just watch the sequence again and I can't see the gunflash as mentioned in the wiki article.

it is there , i just looked at it ,right before this still , when his hand is above his head , but could be just a shine of light .it it hard to tell. This makes it between charlies last hit and the dying (!) chord of the guitar , no sound on film .no sound on the killer festival audio that i can hear

MH is very near the stage during micks speech before the song, clearly visible, ("all i can ask you , san francisco" ) so may have been on it.

BTW whats up with the guy with the back to front flat cap ? he is all smiles at first then during SFTD he starts shaking his head sadly .no murder committed yet

only flashes I saw were from instamatic cameras.


IORR............but I like it!

Stray - the guy can't believe people are getting their ass-kicked instead of
enjoying the Stones music..

MLC

This is the best I can do and I still can't see any gun flash
I think we need the software they use in CSI!




"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-03 00:59 by Deltics.

Excuse me..may I chime in ..all you experts..

first..Rolling Stone.. They sucked as far as reporting the event..I still have the Let It Bleed edition, and it still gets me pissed.... There are about 3 or 4 pages that have a lot of quotes from me.. All BS!! I never spoke with anyone from Rolling Stone.

As to the film and the lead up.. the thing that freaked the Maysles out was they had much earlier film where MH is standing next to the guy that killed him and they noticed the knife in Passoaro's belt by his waist many hours earlier. .they also kept saying,,, if the girlfriend had on a black dress..the angel would be going to jail,as no one would have believed there was a gun. PS flying into SF with David Maysles, was a bit nerve racking as we were told by the DA that if we didn't deliver the film footage we would be arrested as well..

As the guy who was running for the ambulance and ambulance driver, I recall all of it.. worst moment for me (no offense to MH), was when I ran into the cop screaming that I needed the ambulance driver.. and he said... "you don't need to run, he's dead.." It's one thing to sense death in the air at the concert and think it is a bad vibe...and another to face it..

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bmuseed
Excuse me..may I chime in ..all you experts..

first..Rolling Stone.. They sucked as far as reporting the event..I still have the Let It Bleed edition, and it still gets me pissed.... There are about 3 or 4 pages that have a lot of quotes from me.. All BS!! I never spoke with anyone from Rolling Stone.

As to the film and the lead up.. the thing that freaked the Maysles out was they had much earlier film where MH is standing next to the guy that killed him and they noticed the knife in Passoaro's belt by his waist many hours earlier. .they also kept saying,,, if the girlfriend had on a black dress..the angel would be going to jail,as no one would have believed there was a gun. PS flying into SF with David Maysles, was a bit nerve racking as we were told by the DA that if we didn't deliver the film footage we would be arrested as well..

As the guy who was running for the ambulance and ambulance driver, I recall all of it.. worst moment for me (no offense to MH), was when I ran into the cop screaming that I needed the ambulance driver.. and he said... "you don't need to run, he's dead.." It's one thing to sense death in the air at the concert and think it is a bad vibe...and another to face it..

Thanks Ronnie.

[en.wikipedia.org]


IORR............but I like it!

Quote
bmuseed
Excuse me..may I chime in ..all you experts..

first..Rolling Stone.. They sucked as far as reporting the event..I still have the Let It Bleed edition, and it still gets me pissed.... There are about 3 or 4 pages that have a lot of quotes from me.. All BS!! I never spoke with anyone from Rolling Stone.

As to the film and the lead up.. the thing that freaked the Maysles out was they had much earlier film where MH is standing next to the guy that killed him and they noticed the knife in Passoaro's belt by his waist many hours earlier. .they also kept saying,,, if the girlfriend had on a black dress..the angel would be going to jail,as no one would have believed there was a gun. PS flying into SF with David Maysles, was a bit nerve racking as we were told by the DA that if we didn't deliver the film footage we would be arrested as well..

As the guy who was running for the ambulance and ambulance driver, I recall all of it.. worst moment for me (no offense to MH), was when I ran into the cop screaming that I needed the ambulance driver.. and he said... "you don't need to run, he's dead.." It's one thing to sense death in the air at the concert and think it is a bad vibe...and another to face it..

Wow,thanks for the personal insights.

Bmuseed - I read the story too and alot of what was mentioned I saw in Gimme
Shelter so naturally I thought it was legit. Can you pass along some of the
comments you feel were BS - thanks

MLC

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crumbling_mice
...surely they could run the film frame by frame and with a smart audio program pick out any slight change in background noise equal to a gunshot. Didn't they do this with JFK?

regarding jfk ... not correctly. they thought they did and initially thought they heard like 5 or 6 gunshots (which we know there were only 3) but later determined there was definitely echo and possibly one of the cycles backfired

THANK YOU SIR RONNIE, I STAND CORRECTED BY THE GOLD STANDARD!

What was the caliber of the gun? In a crowd of 300,000 people a .22 or .25, even a .32 the report would not have been as loud as a 357mag. or .45.

Quote
MCDDTLC
Stray - the guy can't believe people are getting their ass-kicked instead of
enjoying the Stones music..

MLC

aye, but he and ( i presume )his girlfriend seem to blame mick. also , one girl is crying.
must have been some day! fascinating for us now , but no picnic for those around the stage

One last comment: Let me try and describe the atmosphere that was backstage or within about a 50 foot radius of the stage..as I said earlier, evil was in the air so much so that at one point I was hysterically told that a tower had collapsed and there were 30 to 40 people trapped under it. They were in immediate need of doctors and trying to get everyone to the medical tent. I ran everywhere I could and didn't find any facts to back it up. There was no collapsed tower and yet a lot of people believed it--maybe it was the acid.. It was hard to discern what was real and what wasn't until one of our security told me that they needed the ambulance as a man was stabbed.
I never heard gunfire (and based on the sound around the stage that doesn't mean there wasn't any gunfire) but was told there was a gun (it was turned over to the police by the Angels)

Quote
bmuseed
One last comment: Let me try and describe the atmosphere that was backstage or within about a 50 foot radius of the stage..as I said earlier, evil was in the air so much so that at one point I was hysterically told that a tower had collapsed and there were 30 to 40 people trapped under it. They were in immediate need of doctors and trying to get everyone to the medical tent. I ran everywhere I could and didn't find any facts to back it up. There was no collapsed tower and yet a lot of people believed it--maybe it was the acid.. It was hard to discern what was real and what wasn't until one of our security told me that they needed the ambulance as a man was stabbed.
I never heard gunfire (and based on the sound around the stage that doesn't mean there wasn't any gunfire) but was told there was a gun (it was turned over to the police by the Angels)

i was on the stage during the stones set and i didn't hear any gunshots either. no one i know who was there mentioned hearing gunshots.

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diane d

Quote
bmuseed
One last comment: Let me try and describe the atmosphere that was backstage or within about a 50 foot radius of the stage..as I said earlier, evil was in the air so much so that at one point I was hysterically told that a tower had collapsed and there were 30 to 40 people trapped under it. They were in immediate need of doctors and trying to get everyone to the medical tent. I ran everywhere I could and didn't find any facts to back it up. There was no collapsed tower and yet a lot of people believed it--maybe it was the acid.. It was hard to discern what was real and what wasn't until one of our security told me that they needed the ambulance as a man was stabbed.
I never heard gunfire (and based on the sound around the stage that doesn't mean there wasn't any gunfire) but was told there was a gun (it was turned over to the police by the Angels)

i was on the stage during the stones set and i didn't hear any gunshots either. no one i know who was there mentioned hearing gunshots.

HI Diane, you say you or anyone you knew who was there didn't hear any gunshots, do you think it would have been possible to have heard them if there had been any...what I mean is, was the music very loud - could it have drowned the noise of a gun?

@ Diane

How come you was on that stage, Diane?

Can you tell us some more about what you remember from that day?