Tell Me :
Talk
You may be right on that account...not certain.
I was referring to the much longer and ongoing problem, to today. Jagger/Richards don't own their DECCA-era music.
Why? The Stones DO get royalties from that era. And plenty of them.
And even if they didn't, you'd basically have to limit yourself to buying Stones albums 1973 and newer, which leaves an awful lot of good stuff off your buying list!
not as much as they do from their own record label.
So what?
the only thing you can do about it is - P in Allen Klein's general direction!
heck, ya might even get lots o'support.
The Beatles did use Klein. In Rolling with the Stones, Klein was stated as one of the reasons that the Beatles split.
Like they need it!
It obviously bothers them so much theyve willingly collaborated with ABKCO now for many years.
Your guess is wrong. Klein was a major reason the Beatles broke up, as three signed with him and McCartney refused, the first time there was a major 3-1 schism in the group. This eventually led to McCartney suing the other three to dissolve the Beatles' partnership and separate his business interests. Hard to keep a group together when you are suing your bandmates, so he quit. So I would say, yes, Klein had more than a little something to do with them breaking up. More than Yoko.
I think March has the basics pretty much correct, and it's Mick and Keith as songwriters that have suffered more in the long-term as far as not owning their songs outright, and only getting, what is it, the mechanicals? They all suffered somewhat during Klein's involvement, due to him being tight with the money (which I think he was basically stockpiling in a hidden account, and where Mick's supposed "Where the f-uck is my money" outburst originated).
Outside of Bill's couple of tracks that he wrote, and he may have had his own separate deal, and the Nanker Phelge group credits, I think Bill and Charlie, and Mick T. if he's involved at all, still get what they normally would as musicians from playing on the recordings.
It's Mick and Keith who really got worked over. I can never remember exactly how the whole mechanicals vs publishing, or whatever it is, works. I know that basically, every time one of their songs is played, or a record is sold or covered by another artist, they do get money, just not as much as they would if they owned all of their publishing.
And I meant suffered in terms relating to how the full ownership of their songs was manipulated away from them by Klein (and how he kept them all on a such a tight allowance). They have still made a ton of money off their songs, just not as much as they would if they owned everything outright (and I'm speaking more of Mick and Keith here, since they wrote almost everything. Or at least took the credit
).
More absolute bollocks from Planet Mitch.
They were contractually obliged to deliver the master of one unreleased SONG when leaving Decca. Not an album. A song.
Which they did. The contract didnt say that it had to be a masterpiece.
If Jagger had, as you state, 'refused' to honour a contract, no doubt the band would have been sued. Guess what, they weren't.
And a bad diet and a prescription drug addiction had nothing to do with the death of Elvis.
It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do.
As for "caring" about Klein's death, I am sure that they were indifferent.
They didn't go to Brian Jones' funeral. Why would they go to Klein's?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 14:42 by mitchflorida.
gee, maybe poor old Decca deserved it for f*cking them around for a few years and delaying album releases for months due to petty arguments about cover art?
Who said they would have been expected to go to Klein's funeral? 'Indifferent'? No shit, sherlock. Why wouldnt they be anything else?
Incidentally, Bill, Charlie and Stu were at Brian's funeral. Keith wasn't. Mick was in Australia filming Ned Kelly having already made plans to fly the day after Hyde Park (under threat of legal action as previous postponements had already delayed filming) - but then you knew all that already, didnt you?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 17:54 by Gazza.
I think Keith was at Brian's funeral, I know Mick & Marianne Faithful were somewhere else
And I think you are wrong, Keith didn't go. Can't blame him . . the two were not really on good terms at the end. Why make everyone else feel uncomfortable.
I think this whole thread is kind of daf. You seem to think Mick cared about Klein one way or the other. It was business. How did Mick feel about Kellogg's Rice Krispies?
They owed Decca another album.
Right. And MitchFlorida is a serious knowledgeable Stones fan. In fact, any idiot can Google it - but why would Mitch want to actually work with fact when he can just invent it to suit his need to pollute this board like BP is polluting the Gulf Of Mexico? That's below him. Mitch obviously road the little bus.
Obviously MitchFlorida is not a Stones fan because he'd know. Mitch, you're just an idiot that keeps talking out its ass, spewing invented history.
Edited 217 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 02:07 by skipstone.
Talk about your favorite band.
For information about how to use this forum please check out forum help and policies.
Allen Klein death
Posted by:
marchbaby
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:16
just curious,
how do you think Mick, Keith, Charlie and Bill felt when Klein died last year.?
how do you think Mick, Keith, Charlie and Bill felt when Klein died last year.?
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:23
Now I'm not positive on this, but aren't Mick and Keith the only ones affected by the contract, ie, wasn't it the publishing?
If that's the case, Charlie and Bill were probably indifferent.
If that's the case, Charlie and Bill were probably indifferent.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
marchbaby
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:27
I believe all 4 of the guys were effected b/c as I had read in Bill Wymans Stone Alone, Rolling with the Stones and Keith's auto bio, Allen kept them on a shoe string allowance, they had to keep asking him for money and when he said he owned all of their songs from here on and after, they got rid of him, settled for something ridiculous I think like $2 million, but all 4 of them were tax exiles and went to nellcote to record exile, make money to pay their tax incurred (quoting Stones in Exile here). In the movie, a newspaper clip of Bill Wyman "I am a tax exile" is shown or it might say "my tax problem" I have to watch it again. The only one who didn't have a tax issue was Mick Taylor.
If I am incorrect, someone please correct me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 03:30 by marchbaby.
If I am incorrect, someone please correct me.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 03:30 by marchbaby.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:32
Quote
marchbaby
I believe all 4 of the guys were effected b/c as I had read in Bill Wymans Stone Alone, Rolling with the Stones and Keith's auto bio, Allen kept them on a shoe string allowance, they had to keep asking him for money and when he said he owned all of their songs from here on and after, they got rid of him, settled for something ridiculous I think like $2 million, but all 4 of them were tax exiles and went to nellcote to record exile, make money to pay their tax incurred (quoting Stones in Exile here). In the movie, a newspaper clip of Bill Wyman "I am a tax exile" is shown or it might say "my tax problem" I have to watch it again. The only one who didn't have a tax issue was Mick Taylor.
If I am incorrect, someone please correct me.
You may be right on that account...not certain.
I was referring to the much longer and ongoing problem, to today. Jagger/Richards don't own their DECCA-era music.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
marchbaby
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:36
Quote
treaclefingersQuote
marchbaby
I believe all 4 of the guys were effected b/c as I had read in Bill Wymans Stone Alone, Rolling with the Stones and Keith's auto bio, Allen kept them on a shoe string allowance, they had to keep asking him for money and when he said he owned all of their songs from here on and after, they got rid of him, settled for something ridiculous I think like $2 million, but all 4 of them were tax exiles and went to nellcote to record exile, make money to pay their tax incurred (quoting Stones in Exile here). In the movie, a newspaper clip of Bill Wyman "I am a tax exile" is shown or it might say "my tax problem" I have to watch it again. The only one who didn't have a tax issue was Mick Taylor.
If I am incorrect, someone please correct me.
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then. I bet when the do a new studio album, the guys at Decca will release something.
You may be right on that account...not certain.
I was referring to the much longer and ongoing problem, to today. Jagger/Richards don't own their DECCA-era music.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:39
Quote
marchbaby
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then.
Why? The Stones DO get royalties from that era. And plenty of them.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:43
Quote
GazzaQuote
marchbaby
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then.
Why? The Stones DO get royalties from that era. And plenty of them.
And even if they didn't, you'd basically have to limit yourself to buying Stones albums 1973 and newer, which leaves an awful lot of good stuff off your buying list!
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
marchbaby
()
Date: July 20, 2010 03:52
Quote
GazzaQuote
marchbaby
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then.
Why? The Stones DO get royalties from that era. And plenty of them.
not as much as they do from their own record label.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 20, 2010 04:11
The Rolling Stones wanted a legal bull dog and they got one.
They have no right to complain. Jagger even tried to get the Beatles to use Klein.
They have no right to complain. Jagger even tried to get the Beatles to use Klein.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
open-g
()
Date: July 20, 2010 04:14
Quote
marchbabyQuote
GazzaQuote
marchbaby
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then.
Why? The Stones DO get royalties from that era. And plenty of them.
not as much as they do from their own record label.
So what?
the only thing you can do about it is - P in Allen Klein's general direction!
heck, ya might even get lots o'support.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
HelterSkelter
()
Date: July 20, 2010 04:24
Jagger's doing a KLEIN impersonation in ROCK AND ROLL CIRCUS right before DIRTY MAC play Lennon's YER BLUES (check out Jag's outfit). See? Learn something new every day.......
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
marchbaby
()
Date: July 20, 2010 04:30
Quote
mitchflorida
The Rolling Stones wanted a legal bull dog and they got one.
They have no right to complain. Jagger even tried to get the Beatles to use Klein.
The Beatles did use Klein. In Rolling with the Stones, Klein was stated as one of the reasons that the Beatles split.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 20, 2010 04:34
My guess is that Alan Klein had almost nothing to do with the Beatles breaking up. I had heard that McCartney refused to sign with Klein.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
bernardanderson
()
Date: July 20, 2010 04:58
lennon described the allen klein years as the "de-klein" of the beatles.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 20, 2010 05:04
Quote
marchbabyQuote
GazzaQuote
marchbaby
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then.
Why? The Stones DO get royalties from that era. And plenty of them.
not as much as they do from their own record label.
Like they need it!
It obviously bothers them so much theyve willingly collaborated with ABKCO now for many years.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: July 20, 2010 05:09
Quote
mitchflorida
My guess is that Alan Klein had almost nothing to do with the Beatles breaking up. I had heard that McCartney refused to sign with Klein.
Your guess is wrong. Klein was a major reason the Beatles broke up, as three signed with him and McCartney refused, the first time there was a major 3-1 schism in the group. This eventually led to McCartney suing the other three to dissolve the Beatles' partnership and separate his business interests. Hard to keep a group together when you are suing your bandmates, so he quit. So I would say, yes, Klein had more than a little something to do with them breaking up. More than Yoko.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
souldoggie
()
Date: July 20, 2010 06:39
Say what you will about Klein, he had foresight. I'll give him that.
While all others back in the day (Jagger, Richard, Oldham, Lennon, and most of the music industry) thought that the hit records of the day had expiration dates on them, Klein bet that they didn't.
And he won big.
You have to know, back in '65 nobody thought that those hit records would ever be played again in 3 years, much less 45.
While all others back in the day (Jagger, Richard, Oldham, Lennon, and most of the music industry) thought that the hit records of the day had expiration dates on them, Klein bet that they didn't.
And he won big.
You have to know, back in '65 nobody thought that those hit records would ever be played again in 3 years, much less 45.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 20, 2010 06:43
Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca.
Mick and Keith won't be lecturing Alan Klein on ethics, that's for sure. They wanted a tough S.O.B. and they got one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 06:44 by mitchflorida.
Mick and Keith won't be lecturing Alan Klein on ethics, that's for sure. They wanted a tough S.O.B. and they got one.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 06:44 by mitchflorida.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
baxlap
()
Date: July 20, 2010 07:41
Back to the central question, however, methinks that none of them mourned his passing.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
bustedtrousers
()
Date: July 20, 2010 10:01
Quote
marchbabyQuote
treaclefingersQuote
marchbaby
I believe all 4 of the guys were effected b/c as I had read in Bill Wymans Stone Alone, Rolling with the Stones and Keith's auto bio, Allen kept them on a shoe string allowance, they had to keep asking him for money and when he said he owned all of their songs from here on and after, they got rid of him, settled for something ridiculous I think like $2 million, but all 4 of them were tax exiles and went to nellcote to record exile, make money to pay their tax incurred (quoting Stones in Exile here). In the movie, a newspaper clip of Bill Wyman "I am a tax exile" is shown or it might say "my tax problem" I have to watch it again. The only one who didn't have a tax issue was Mick Taylor.
If I am incorrect, someone please correct me.
I know what you mean about the Decca record period. I will not buy anything released by Klein from back then. I bet when the do a new studio album, the guys at Decca will release something.
You may be right on that account...not certain.
I was referring to the much longer and ongoing problem, to today. Jagger/Richards don't own their DECCA-era music.
I think March has the basics pretty much correct, and it's Mick and Keith as songwriters that have suffered more in the long-term as far as not owning their songs outright, and only getting, what is it, the mechanicals? They all suffered somewhat during Klein's involvement, due to him being tight with the money (which I think he was basically stockpiling in a hidden account, and where Mick's supposed "Where the f-uck is my money" outburst originated).
Outside of Bill's couple of tracks that he wrote, and he may have had his own separate deal, and the Nanker Phelge group credits, I think Bill and Charlie, and Mick T. if he's involved at all, still get what they normally would as musicians from playing on the recordings.
It's Mick and Keith who really got worked over. I can never remember exactly how the whole mechanicals vs publishing, or whatever it is, works. I know that basically, every time one of their songs is played, or a record is sold or covered by another artist, they do get money, just not as much as they would if they owned all of their publishing.
And I meant suffered in terms relating to how the full ownership of their songs was manipulated away from them by Klein (and how he kept them all on a such a tight allowance). They have still made a ton of money off their songs, just not as much as they would if they owned everything outright (and I'm speaking more of Mick and Keith here, since they wrote almost everything. Or at least took the credit
).Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 20, 2010 11:01
As a manager: No regrets 
.
As a human being: God bless him.†
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 11:28 by Amsterdamned.
.As a human being: God bless him.†
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 11:28 by Amsterdamned.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 20, 2010 14:08
Quote
mitchflorida
Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca.
More absolute bollocks from Planet Mitch.
They were contractually obliged to deliver the master of one unreleased SONG when leaving Decca. Not an album. A song.
Which they did. The contract didnt say that it had to be a masterpiece.
If Jagger had, as you state, 'refused' to honour a contract, no doubt the band would have been sued. Guess what, they weren't.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 20, 2010 14:10
Quote
mitchflorida
My guess is that Alan Klein had almost nothing to do with the Beatles breaking up.
And a bad diet and a prescription drug addiction had nothing to do with the death of Elvis.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 20, 2010 14:41
Quote
GazzaQuote
mitchflorida
Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca.
More absolute bollocks from Planet Mitch.
They were contractually obliged to deliver the master of one unreleased SONG when leaving Decca. Not an album. A song.
Which they did. The contract didnt say that it had to be a masterpiece.
If Jagger had, as you state, 'refused' to honour a contract, no doubt the band would have been sued. Guess what, they weren't.
It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do.
As for "caring" about Klein's death, I am sure that they were indifferent.
They didn't go to Brian Jones' funeral. Why would they go to Klein's?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 14:42 by mitchflorida.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Rocky Dijon
()
Date: July 20, 2010 14:56
mitchflorida wrote:
"Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca."
Following Gazza's correction that they were obliged to deliver a master for a new song, not an album and met that obligation, mitch responds:
"It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do."
You are the absolute best, Mitch. I look forward to your posts more than any others. Please, please drop some more hints about your conversation with a Stones insider whose name we would all know.
"Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca."
Following Gazza's correction that they were obliged to deliver a master for a new song, not an album and met that obligation, mitch responds:
"It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do."
You are the absolute best, Mitch. I look forward to your posts more than any others. Please, please drop some more hints about your conversation with a Stones insider whose name we would all know.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Anonymous User
()
Date: July 20, 2010 15:02
blah blah blah,F allen klein
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: July 20, 2010 15:07
Quote
mitchflorida
It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do.
gee, maybe poor old Decca deserved it for f*cking them around for a few years and delaying album releases for months due to petty arguments about cover art?
Quote
mitchflorida
As for "caring" about Klein's death, I am sure that they were indifferent.
They didn't go to Brian Jones' funeral. Why would they go to Klein's?
Who said they would have been expected to go to Klein's funeral? 'Indifferent'? No shit, sherlock. Why wouldnt they be anything else?
Incidentally, Bill, Charlie and Stu were at Brian's funeral. Keith wasn't. Mick was in Australia filming Ned Kelly having already made plans to fly the day after Hyde Park (under threat of legal action as previous postponements had already delayed filming) - but then you knew all that already, didnt you?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 17:54 by Gazza.
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
marchbaby
()
Date: July 20, 2010 15:42
Quote
mitchfloridaQuote
GazzaQuote
mitchflorida
Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca.
More absolute bollocks from Planet Mitch.
They were contractually obliged to deliver the master of one unreleased SONG when leaving Decca. Not an album. A song.
Which they did. The contract didnt say that it had to be a masterpiece.
If Jagger had, as you state, 'refused' to honour a contract, no doubt the band would have been sued. Guess what, they weren't.
It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do.
As for "caring" about Klein's death, I am sure that they were indifferent.
They didn't go to Brian Jones' funeral. Why would they go to Klein's?
I think Keith was at Brian's funeral, I know Mick & Marianne Faithful were somewhere else
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
mitchflorida
()
Date: July 20, 2010 17:37
Quote
marchbabyQuote
mitchfloridaQuote
GazzaQuote
mitchflorida
Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca.
More absolute bollocks from Planet Mitch.
They were contractually obliged to deliver the master of one unreleased SONG when leaving Decca. Not an album. A song.
Which they did. The contract didnt say that it had to be a masterpiece.
If Jagger had, as you state, 'refused' to honour a contract, no doubt the band would have been sued. Guess what, they weren't.
It was irrelevant whether they were trying to rip off Decca for a single or for an album. And that is what they admitted they were trying to do.
As for "caring" about Klein's death, I am sure that they were indifferent.
They didn't go to Brian Jones' funeral. Why would they go to Klein's?
I think Keith was at Brian's funeral, I know Mick & Marianne Faithful were somewhere else
And I think you are wrong, Keith didn't go. Can't blame him . . the two were not really on good terms at the end. Why make everyone else feel uncomfortable.
I think this whole thread is kind of daf. You seem to think Mick cared about Klein one way or the other. It was business. How did Mick feel about Kellogg's Rice Krispies?
Re: Allen Klein death
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: July 20, 2010 17:51
Quote
mitchflorida
Truth is, Mick Jagger was not always the most ethical man in the world . . not by a long shot. Example, Decca Records wanted another album from the Stones per their contract with the group. Jagger refused and gave Decca some piece of crap called C--k----r Blues. It was completely garbage and in violation of the Rolling Stone's agreement to come out with a real album for Decca.
They owed Decca another album.
Right. And MitchFlorida is a serious knowledgeable Stones fan. In fact, any idiot can Google it - but why would Mitch want to actually work with fact when he can just invent it to suit his need to pollute this board like BP is polluting the Gulf Of Mexico? That's below him. Mitch obviously road the little bus.
Obviously MitchFlorida is not a Stones fan because he'd know. Mitch, you're just an idiot that keeps talking out its ass, spewing invented history.
Edited 217 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-20 02:07 by skipstone.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
Online Users
Bosmatic1 , colaker , Heart for Stones , JordyLicks96 , mariano , midimannz , novica , Quique-stone , SirCorto , teleblaster , TheBluesHadaBaby , Torsten , walkingthedog , Whale
Guests:
1435
Record Number of Users:
206
on June 1, 2022 23:50
Record Number of Guests:
9627
on January 2, 2024 23:10