I would say 1973 to be the almost death year.... any thoughts onkids darkest moments?

Don't know how close he came to death in whatever year, but '77 (or so) almost did him in as well as the Stones.

I read a bit of Don Felder's (Eagles) book. He mentions an incident in 1975 where he was invited to meet Keith. He entered Keith's room and found him on the bathroom floor passed out looking gray. Felder said something like "last time I saw someone that color, they were in a coffin". He said he fully expected to see a report about Keith's passing on the news that night.
So I'd say 1975 qualifies as a good candidate.

By the way, Keith looked pretty healthy on the Stones in Exile interviews. Amazing what that brain has been through.

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Loudei
I would say 1973 to be the almost death year.... any thoughts onkids darkest moments?

Given his playing ability onstage and his appearance, I would say 1975-77 were WAY worse than 1973.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-18 09:13 by 71Tele.

Agreed. 1975-77 not only saw Keith "not looking real well" so to speak, but also hitting a wall with his playing ability. It started to slowly affect his guitar work, IMO. It showed... And I think he started to look healthier afterwards, such as on the 1981 tour. Granted, maybe it was the pastel stage reflecting a 'rosy glow' on his complexion but he look waaay better than the mid-1970s.

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bolexman
Agreed. 1975-77 not only saw Keith "not looking real well" so to speak, but also hitting a wall with his playing ability. It started to slowly affect his guitar work, IMO. It showed... And I think he started to look healthier afterwards, such as on the 1981 tour. Granted, maybe it was the pastel stage reflecting a 'rosy glow' on his complexion but he look waaay better than the mid-1970s.

He was close to comatose on some '75 and '76 shows. Not so '73 (just listen to Brussells). I think he started to look better circa '81 because he had kicked and got that poison out of his system. Then he turned into the caricature drunken Keith persona, slurring his words all the time and all loose-limbed.

Wasn't '76 the year in which he fell asleep onstage?

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bolexman
Agreed. 1975-77 not only saw Keith "not looking real well" so to speak, but also hitting a wall with his playing ability. It started to slowly affect his guitar work, IMO. It showed... And I think he started to look healthier afterwards, such as on the 1981 tour. Granted, maybe it was the pastel stage reflecting a 'rosy glow' on his complexion but he look waaay better than the mid-1970s.

For the 81-82 tour, he was SO in love, his complexion was litterally pink. It was all about Patricia, and it still is.

"He was close to comatose on some '75 and '76 shows. Not so '73 (just listen to Brussels)"
He was pretty comatose on some 73 shows TOO. Go beyond Brussels & listen the Manchester show that was taped
Or the 1st gig of a given day when they played 2 gigs a day, quite often for Keith the "afternoon" show was the "still in a drug haze" gig.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-07-18 12:49 by dcba.

I was too young to see them live in the early 70's but I have seen a recording of an Old Grey Whistle Test programme (I think) where Keith is being interviewed and is clearly going in and out of it before our very eyes, although remarkably lucid when he talks. His teeth are in a terrible state too. Someone here will know the date I'm sure.

Early October 1974 I believe, Keith is talking about Its Only Rock n Roll, and working with Ron Wood.

Fool To Cry live is when he said he'd nod off.

Hard to judge this one as Heroin, whilst being an evil drug, actually isn't that bad for your body if it's taken in a fairly pure state - which I imagine Keith did. It's simply a very strong pain killer and won't shorten your life. It's the shit that gets cut with it and the inability of users to get the correct dosage as they don't always know the strength of what they are injecting, hence overdoses, septacemia, collapsed veins etc etc....So he kicks this and moves to booze - this is what will kill him, bourbon drunk in the quantities Keith consumed from that period to present will have caused far more damage than the heroin, so for me I'd say any time around the last 10 years is where he has been the most decadent. If by decadent you are referring to drug usage rather than risk then I'd go for 75-77 as the point where he probably risked his life more. We shouldn't overlook the cigarettes either, Keith chain smokes and always has - so i guess add that to the damage the booze has done and, well, much as I love the guy, he aint gonna make his 70's.

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71Tele

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Loudei
I would say 1973 to be the almost death year.... any thoughts onkids darkest moments?

Given his playing ability onstage and his appearance, I would say 1975-77 were WAY worse than 1973.

Count in Ron Wood and you hear the results.

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crumbling_mice
Hard to judge this one as Heroin, whilst being an evil drug, actually isn't that bad for your body if it's taken in a fairly pure state - which I imagine Keith did. It's simply a very strong pain killer and won't shorten your life. It's the shit that gets cut with it and the inability of users to get the correct dosage as they don't always know the strength of what they are injecting, hence overdoses, septacemia, collapsed veins etc etc....So he kicks this and moves to booze - this is what will kill him, bourbon drunk in the quantities Keith consumed from that period to present will have caused far more damage than the heroin, so for me I'd say any time around the last 10 years is where he has been the most decadent. If by decadent you are referring to drug usage rather than risk then I'd go for 75-77 as the point where he probably risked his life more. We shouldn't overlook the cigarettes either, Keith chain smokes and always has - so i guess add that to the damage the booze has done and, well, much as I love the guy, he aint gonna make his 70's.

You probably didn't think he would make his 60's or his 50's or his 40's. I've got news for you - one day you will die. I hope you have a long and healthy life before the reaper comes knocking. As for Keith - he is an old man, and he will die at some point. It seems to me that he is doing well. He is almost 70. I agree that the fags probably will finish him off. But he has had a decent innings and probably has a few more years left.

73 wasn't a great year for him. But it got from bad to worse over the years. That's the way addiction mostly works. So 76/77 may have been rock bottom.

But personally I think he was the worst in some parts of end 70's/ early 80's when he had switched to heavy alcohol drinking and pills.

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skipstone
Fool To Cry live is when he said he'd nod off.

Well, honestly, it's hard to blame this on the drugs.

No comment...................



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letitloose

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crumbling_mice
Hard to judge this one as Heroin, whilst being an evil drug, actually isn't that bad for your body if it's taken in a fairly pure state - which I imagine Keith did. It's simply a very strong pain killer and won't shorten your life. It's the shit that gets cut with it and the inability of users to get the correct dosage as they don't always know the strength of what they are injecting, hence overdoses, septacemia, collapsed veins etc etc....So he kicks this and moves to booze - this is what will kill him, bourbon drunk in the quantities Keith consumed from that period to present will have caused far more damage than the heroin, so for me I'd say any time around the last 10 years is where he has been the most decadent. If by decadent you are referring to drug usage rather than risk then I'd go for 75-77 as the point where he probably risked his life more. We shouldn't overlook the cigarettes either, Keith chain smokes and always has - so i guess add that to the damage the booze has done and, well, much as I love the guy, he aint gonna make his 70's.

You probably didn't think he would make his 60's or his 50's or his 40's. I've got news for you - one day you will die. I hope you have a long and healthy life before the reaper comes knocking. As for Keith - he is an old man, and he will die at some point. It seems to me that he is doing well. He is almost 70. I agree that the fags probably will finish him off. But he has had a decent innings and probably has a few more years left.

DOn't get me wrong, I hope to god Keith makes it to his 90's, but you have to be realistic and even Keith Richards can't get away with the level of abuse he has inflicted on his body and as we agree, the fags if not the booze will take it's toll. I am already convinced he had a stroke in the 90's - maybe the book will reveal all on this one. For the record, I'm sure I won't make it to Keith's age and I've only done a quarter of the abuse he has, he is built of tough stuff.

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crumbling_mice
I am already convinced he had a stroke in the 90's - maybe the book will reveal all on this one.

Wow!
I've never heard anyone speculate on this.

Care to elaborate a bit on why you have this idea?

Well, this is in no way scientific and it is not based on insider knowledge...it's based on having worked with stroke victims....firstly Keith's face took on a droop sometime in the 90's...look at the 80's photos against say mid to late 90's....both his eye and his mouth have a slight lopsided look - tis is very much what a mild stroke can do...my friend - only in his 50's had one, very mild and caused by smoking and drinking, the only visible sign is eye and corner of mouth. You could also argue that it was from around this time onwards that Keith's guitar playing began to deteriorate...again in keeping with a mild stroke, you often lose co-ordination in your hands to a varying level dependent on the stroke and effectiveness of the physiotherapy etc.

I could well be very wrong on this one, but look at the close up face photos and you will see what I mean.

Thanks, CM.

Assuming Keith did have a stroke, I have to wonder if he recognized it and got treatment right away.

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crumbling_mice

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letitloose

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crumbling_mice
Hard to judge this one as Heroin, whilst being an evil drug, actually isn't that bad for your body if it's taken in a fairly pure state - which I imagine Keith did. It's simply a very strong pain killer and won't shorten your life. It's the shit that gets cut with it and the inability of users to get the correct dosage as they don't always know the strength of what they are injecting, hence overdoses, septacemia, collapsed veins etc etc....So he kicks this and moves to booze - this is what will kill him, bourbon drunk in the quantities Keith consumed from that period to present will have caused far more damage than the heroin, so for me I'd say any time around the last 10 years is where he has been the most decadent. If by decadent you are referring to drug usage rather than risk then I'd go for 75-77 as the point where he probably risked his life more. We shouldn't overlook the cigarettes either, Keith chain smokes and always has - so i guess add that to the damage the booze has done and, well, much as I love the guy, he aint gonna make his 70's.

You probably didn't think he would make his 60's or his 50's or his 40's. I've got news for you - one day you will die. I hope you have a long and healthy life before the reaper comes knocking. As for Keith - he is an old man, and he will die at some point. It seems to me that he is doing well. He is almost 70. I agree that the fags probably will finish him off. But he has had a decent innings and probably has a few more years left.

DOn't get me wrong, I hope to god Keith makes it to his 90's, but you have to be realistic and even Keith Richards can't get away with the level of abuse he has inflicted on his body and as we agree, the fags if not the booze will take it's toll. I am already convinced he had a stroke in the 90's - maybe the book will reveal all on this one. For the record, I'm sure I won't make it to Keith's age and I've only done a quarter of the abuse he has, he is built of tough stuff.

Interestingly, a neurosurgeon I was talking to around the time of the fall from the coconut tree speculated that the alleged tree incident was a blind for him suffering a drug induced bleed. Apparently what was said about the drugs he was taking after did not fit according to this guy with what would be prescribed to stabilise after a traumatic subdural haematoma but might be a long term treatment after a minor stroke. All speculation of course.

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Addicted

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bolexman
Agreed. 1975-77 not only saw Keith "not looking real well" so to speak, but also hitting a wall with his playing ability. It started to slowly affect his guitar work, IMO. It showed... And I think he started to look healthier afterwards, such as on the 1981 tour. Granted, maybe it was the pastel stage reflecting a 'rosy glow' on his complexion but he look waaay better than the mid-1970s.

For the 81-82 tour, he was SO in love, his complexion was litterally pink. It was all about Patricia, and it still is.

agree 100% and wonder what might have happened otherwise, would the band have continued? certainly makes it clear, she made such a difference, and consequently for the band too.. any thoughts? thanks, Addicted

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Edith Grove
Thanks, CM.

Assuming Keith did have a stroke, I have to wonder if he recognized it and got treatment right away.

THis is what I thought, depending on when and if, of course, he suffered a mild stroke, how likely is it that he noticed it...many people don't realise they've had one and if you are a raging alcoholic etc it could be that no one else noticed it for a long period...immediate treatment is essentail to prevent further strokes or long term damage. I truly hope I'm wrong on this but I also did think the whole falling out of a tree was bollocks of the highest order...we'll probably never know...but the whole tree thing was very dubious and at the time several different stories circulated as to what happened...I love a good conspiracy - especially whe it has it's roots (forgive the pun) in fact.

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crumbling_mice

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Edith Grove
Thanks, CM.

Assuming Keith did have a stroke, I have to wonder if he recognized it and got treatment right away.

THis is what I thought, depending on when and if, of course, he suffered a mild stroke, how likely is it that he noticed it...many people don't realise they've had one and if you are a raging alcoholic etc it could be that no one else noticed it for a long period...immediate treatment is essentail to prevent further strokes or long term damage. I truly hope I'm wrong on this but I also did think the whole falling out of a tree was bollocks of the highest order...we'll probably never know...but the whole tree thing was very dubious and at the time several different stories circulated as to what happened...I love a good conspiracy - especially whe it has it's roots (forgive the pun) in fact.

Hmm not too sure about that. I love conspiracy theories myself, but I seem to recall Ronnie describing the whole thing in graphic detail. Apparently he was bleeding heavily after the knock. Also , didnt he take his neurosurgeon on tour with him (my head guy). I cant believe he would have been part of a big cover up. But......who knows!

He hit his head on a rock fumbling through a shrub, not from falling from a coconut tree.

Just another mythical 'I defied death again while painting the ceiling with Muddy Waters while BB King changed the container of the water cooler between eighth notes and Marshall Chess ordered 15 pizzas while editing 'Mannish Boy'' quip by the Rolling Stones, er, Keith and Ronnie.

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skipstone
He hit his head on a rock fumbling through a shrub, not from falling from a coconut tree.

Just another mythical 'I defied death again while painting the ceiling with Muddy Waters while BB King changed the container of the water cooler between eighth notes and Marshall Chess ordered 15 pizzas while editing 'Mannish Boy'' quip by the Rolling Stones, er, Keith and Ronnie.

There you go Skipstone, that story took a long time to surface, for weeks if not months it was the fall from the tree....whether it is to enhance the indestructable image or not there is more to all tis than meets the japs eye

To be fair to Keith he did kinda underplay it in interviews ("it wasn't a big tree" etc)

Why say it was a tree at all, if it wasn't? Why not say I stumbled going through the undergrowth (if indeed this is what he did) or just say, I had a stroke - again!