Quote
howled
I've never seen a song by any band with credits like "the second line lyric change was inspired by a Bill Wyman Bass lick".

Me neither and no one is saying such a thing, but a bass lick could be used for part or all of the main melody, but you know that already.

...


The Rolling Stones - Song writing

Based on available evidence only(bootleg recordings, quotes by people involved), with the exception of one song(see below) Mick Jagger and Keith Richard wrote all the melody and lyrics for Jagger Richard credited songs during 1963 - 1969.

I qualify the above based on my being unaware of anyone coming forward and claiming to have actually written the melody and lyrics to Jagger Richards credited songs or come forward and claimed that Brian, Bill, Jack and Nicky etc wrote any part of those melodies and lyrics during 1963 - 1969.

The one excpetion is Marianne claiming she helped write Sister Morphine, which did eventually get acknowledged in the credits.

Any of the few actual claims are about riffs, bits etc. Their influence can be debated, but actual claims of writing the melody and/or lyrics just don't seem to exist for that time period.

...

There are many grey areas where the creation of the arrangement and main melody are not covered well by quotes, demos etc etc. The huge void of the unknown makes the chance of achieving factual conclusions very unlikley.

"I'm out!"









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-28 15:12 by His Majesty.

Just take Urgent by Foreigner.

Mick Jones is credited with writing the song.

Two things stand out in the arrangement and that is Thomas Dolby's Funky keyboards and chorus enhancements and the Junior Walker sax solo.

The whole thing is probably arranged around Thomas Dolby's keyboards and Junior Walkers Sax solo.

There is no doubt that these sidemen make a big contribution to the song but they didn't write the song.

Brian's Sitar on Paint It Black is the same sort of thing, where it enhances the song and it might have influenced the songs arrangement.





Junior Walkers own arrangement without Thomas Dolby and Foreigner.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-28 15:18 by howled.

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howled

Quote


Bill Wyman

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.

- Bill Wyman, 1982

Quote

Two problems with this quote -Jagger and Richards where jamming with the riff already in early January '68, as evidenced by the Surrey Rehearsals tape. This is some three months before they recorded the actual version. Second, they recorded the actual version without Wyman on bass...

Mathijs

[www.iorr.org]

The JJF verse riff is already in the Surrey Rehearsals, so Bill seems a bit out of whack with the JJF verse riff coming from him and being recorded the next day.

In the Surrey Rehearsals, Keith has the JJF verse riff and the chorus chords and there is no JJF intro (yet).

Keith plays bass on JJF and not Bill, which is a bit odd if Bill wrote the riff, I would imagine.





Brian wrote the Satisfaction Riff? [www.iorr.org]

We know that the riff came from "Nowhere To Run" though.

? Bill wrote the riff on keyboards. It was a rehearsal, not taped. It was done before Surrey.

Quote
howled
I've never seen a song by any band with credits like "the second line lyric change was inspired by a Bill Wyman Bass lick".

What Stones song is that? JJF is about the main riff, the hook, the signature.

All said about Brian and pop music seems to be about his idea, or something he might have said back then, in 1963/1964. He clearly did a lot in 1965/1966/1967 during their pop era so I guess he changed. I believe he was "real" and out there in the same way as Jim Morrisson, Hendrix and other mostly American acts. Had he survivied 1967 and not felt castrated by his loss he would have had a chance to return to the "real" music and feel important in 1968.

Quote
Redhotcarpet

Quote
howled

Quote


Bill Wyman

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.

- Bill Wyman, 1982

Quote

Two problems with this quote -Jagger and Richards where jamming with the riff already in early January '68, as evidenced by the Surrey Rehearsals tape. This is some three months before they recorded the actual version. Second, they recorded the actual version without Wyman on bass...

Mathijs

[www.iorr.org]

The JJF verse riff is already in the Surrey Rehearsals, so Bill seems a bit out of whack with the JJF verse riff coming from him and being recorded the next day.

In the Surrey Rehearsals, Keith has the JJF verse riff and the chorus chords and there is no JJF intro (yet).

Keith plays bass on JJF and not Bill, which is a bit odd if Bill wrote the riff, I would imagine.





Brian wrote the Satisfaction Riff? [www.iorr.org]

We know that the riff came from "Nowhere To Run" though.

? Bill wrote the riff on keyboards. It was a rehearsal, not taped. It was done before Surrey.

Supposedly, it was three months later...

Its pretty obvious Bill is not making this up.

He was punished for writing the riff, then: "No bass for you"!

I think Bill is the only one who has come up with that story?

I dont know, I believe even Keith admitted to it but added it's just Satisfaction backwards. Bill has never been confronted about it and Bills description is very believable, it doesnt sound far fetched, it sounds like a day in the studio with the band. It's not one of those "they stole my song" stories. He came up with the riff not the lyrics or the rest of the song and gives Mick (and Keith?) credit for that.

Well, It's hard for any of us to know. However, I know for a fact that the "Keith admitted it"-quote indeed is Bill's as well...

The "Satisfaction backwards-thing" came 20 years later, though.

On the Surrey Tapes, is Brian playing the rhythm guitar and Keith the snake-like lead on the romp through "In the Midnight Hour" (or what sounds like the riff of "In the Midnight Hour")?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-29 02:36 by Jayce.

Quote

Bill Wyman

We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single.

- Bill Wyman, 1982

Bill is saying, that the JJF riff happened a day before the JJF recording.

So that means that Bill has the riff and then Mick and Keith work on the lyrics that night and then they record it the next day.

ie

Bill comes up with the riff on Wednesday and then Mick and Keith write the words on Wednesday night going into Thursday morning and then they record JJF on Thursday.

But, Keith had the JJF riff and the JJF chorus way before the JJF recording, as can be heard on the Surrey rehearsal tapes.

So, Bill's story is out of whack, or there is something wrong with it.

Geez, theres nothing wroong with Bills story. What Bill says, what the quote means, is not about what happened - literally - the next day. Sometime later ie when they rehearsed/recorded the song or sometime when Mick was bragging about their new hit, Bill felt he had to remind Mick of who's riff it actually was. It s not about weekdays.

nytimes

'Not the Sort of Blokes I'd Have Chosen as Mates'
By Janet Maslin; Janet Maslin, who is a film critic for The New York Times, formerly wrote about rock-and-roll
Published: November 18, 1990

BILL WYMAN was the Rolling Stone who showed up for rehearsals early. He was the one who noticed, with the April 1964 release of a novelty record entitled "365 Rolling Stones (One for Every Day of the Year)," that 1964 actually had 366 days. He was the one who found it relaxing to answer fan mail, study the fine print on contracts and keep very close track of petty cash. (Being a rock star, he had other ways of relaxing too.) During the Stones' most tumultuous years Mr. Wyman, who became the band's resident bean counter as well as its bassist, was the one who took notes.

"Stone Alone," Mr. Wyman's highly interesting account of the band's beginnings and its first dizzying experience of fame, follows the group through many crises. It may itself be enough to precipitate another one. Mr. Wyman complains that his bandmates Mick Jagger and Keith Richards unfairly monopolized songwriting credit, took advantage of the group's collective bookkeeping, monopolized the limelight and deliberately minimized the artistic contributions of Brian Jones, whom Mr. Wyman regards as the Stones' original guiding light. "Brian was the inventor and inspiration of the Rolling Stones," he writes. "The band would not have existed without him. He never received that proper credit during his life and I intend to ensure he gets it now."


In addition to settling scores, Mr. Wyman presents a lively and detailed reminiscence of the Stones' ascent. He methodically catalogues the riots, the groupies, the souvenirs, the bad press ("Unless someone teaches guitar chords to chimpanzees, the visual ultimate has been reached with the Rolling Stones," wrote The Milwaukee Journal in 1964) and the good ("I went to sneer and I stayed to cheer," said The Belfast Newsletter that same year). Mr. Wyman's methodical side leads him to include a list of all the band's records, concerts, awards and radio shows from the 1960's as one appendix to this book, and its disastrous management agreements with Allen Klein as another.

Not much about Mr. Wyman's beginnings suggested that he would someday tour the world to the accompaniment of ear-piercing screams. Born William Perks (he later borrowed the last name of an R.A.F. acquaintance), he and his five siblings grew up using salt instead of toothpaste and wearing their socks for a week at a time without washing them. He recalls that his mother once peeled onions for a pickling company, and that his father as a child was given beer bottles in his Christmas stocking. Young Bill, with his mathematical bent, worked briefly for a bookmaker before taking up the bass guitar.

When he met his future bandmates in 1962, they were still the Rollin' Stones and Mick Jagger was still Mike. Mr. Wyman, by then a married man six-to-seven years older than the others, gives some credence to the old story that the struggling band hired him because of the professional-looking amplifiers he brought with him. For his part, he was dubious about the Stones' prospects. "How on earth had this group of layabouts got together to play minority music with such conviction?" he asks. At moments like this, the book bears the stamp of Ray Coleman, the former Melody Maker editor who assisted Mr. Wyman with his writing.

Often, though, the book's language and vantage point are unmistakably an insider's. Mr. Wyman sounds very much himself when he complains about the early housekeeping habits at the Jagger-Richards-Jones apartment, which he labels as disgusting and cites as one of the first things to separate him from the others. "I never understood why they carried on like this," he writes about the unwashed dishes and the amateur artwork on the walls and ceilings. "It could not have been just the lack of money that caused them to sink. Bohemian Angst, more likely."

These were, in Mr. Wyman's mind, "not the sort of blokes I'd have chosen as mates if I hadn't joined them in a group." But join he did, shortly before the Stones began to attract attention. Not all of it was friendly; Mr. Wyman describes numerous occasions when the Stones' down-and-dirty image got them into trouble. The group's members, especially Brian, really objected to being harassed by strangers and depicted as the great unwashed. "We tried to laugh it off," Mr. Wyman says, "but it wasn't really a laughing matter, being cut off from the human race just because we had got long hair."

Meanwhile, the Stones were being heralded as millionaires, which Mr. Wyman says he found hilarious. The book keeps a running log of the group's expenses, Mr. Wyman's own very small bank balance (it was 1964 before he moved his wife and child into their first apartment with indoor plumbing) and the Stones' plaintive requests for money from Mr. Klein, whom they eventually sued for damages. Describing other hardships beyond the financial ones, Mr. Wyman also recounts their onstage accidents, including the time Mr. Richards was saved from being electrocuted by the Hush Puppies on his feet.

Mr. Wyman's account of his own behavior is remarkably matter-of-fact, under the circumstances. "My lack of interest in drugs had been a recurring problem in the Stones," he says, but he describes himself as having later become a marijuana chain smoker. "She was a woman at thirteen, and she certainly looked like the twenty-year-old I had originally believed her to have been," he says of his present wife, who in any case is 33 years his junior. In speaking of his first marriage, he refers to himself as a devoted family man while also noting that he traveled so much his young son "would howl the house down" at the sight of a suitcase. "I always fared much better than the others in the girl stakes," Mr. Wyman says, and he provides relative groupie counts to prove it: "In 1965 we sat down one evening in an hotel and worked out that since the band had started two years earlier, I'd had 278 girls, Brian 130, Mick about thirty, Keith six and Charlie [ Watts ] none."

Mr. Wyman's mind for trivia can indeed be staggering. As a child, he was the one to notice that his own and most of his siblings' birthdays generally came nine months after those of their parents, who must have liked to celebrate. He notes that "Satisfaction" is one of only two songs to have been a hit in five different years (the other was "White Christmas") and that the gold record awarded the Stones for their album "Aftermath" was actually a gilded copy of the soundtrack for "Bambi."

In spite of Mr. Wyman's meticulousness, his book is sometimes sloppy. Quotations from the Stones' abundant press clippings are often used without attribution. A passage about the Stones ascribed to Jane Holzer is actually misquoted from Tom Wolfe's description in his article "The Girl of the Year." The book's organization is so haphazard that it can go flatly from the author's learning he had an illegitimate child in one paragraph to the Stones' winning one more record award in the next.

One of the book's new details is that among Brian Jones's five known illegitimate children (including two sons named Julian Mark by two different mothers) is a daughter who is epileptic. Mr. Wyman's interview with this daughter leads him to surmise that some of her father's odd behavior, and perhaps even his drowning, can be traced to epilepsy.

Another apparently new interview is with Mr. Wyman's mother. When he joined the Rolling Stones, she says, he told her: "Mum, it's only for about three years, and I'll get a nice car and a nice house, fully furnished, out of it." Nearly three decades later, Mr. Wyman says, "we've been to hell and returned because we love the entity of the Stones -- even more than we love each other."

As Mr. Richards told Mr. Jagger when they patched up yet another feud, "Darling, this thing is bigger than both of us." Even now, despite the "atmosphere of tetchiness" that his book fully captures, Mr. Wyman thinks so too. THE OTHER BOOKS ARE GIBBERISH

Bill Wyman likes bass players who "keep out of the way and keep quiet," and until now that's what he has always done. In a recent telephone interview from his office on King's Road in London, he explained that he had decided to write "Stone Alone" because "I kept reading all these books about the history of the Stones which were gibberish. I thought it was time to do one properly."

Mr. Wyman, who turned 54 last month, didn't seem at all concerned about how Mick Jagger and Keith Richards would react to his book. "I've sent them copies, but I haven't heard back," he said. "If the boys can deal with honesty, that's fine." Unlike "Stone Alone," he added, interviews with the band have generally served to gloss over things. "Mick in particular is good at not answering questions. He talks in circles and does it very efficiently."

The book follows the group through the 1960's (Mr. Wyman plans to write one more volume, which will carry the story up to the present), and it pauses frequently to compare the successes of the Stones with those of the Beatles. Still, Mr. Wyman said, "there's never been a rivalry. They helped to get us known. I thought they wrote better songs and made better records. We gave better shows."

Mr. Wyman counts "Honky Tonk Women," "Jumpin' Jack Flash" and "Parachute Woman" among his favorite Stones songs. In fact, he wrote the basic riff for "Jumpin' Jack Flash" -- though, he said with a laugh, "I don't think Mick and Keith bandied that about too much." They did credit him, however, with inventing the word "groupie."

In the song "Jigsaw Puzzle," Mick Jagger sings: "The bass player, he looks nervous about the girls outside." If, Mr. Wyman said, he was worried about those girls outside, it was only because "I was wondering if maybe they wouldn't get in to see me." -- DAVID KELLY

Quote
Jayce
On the Surrey Tapes, is Brian playing the rhythm guitar and Keith the snake-like lead on the romp through "In the Midnight Hour" (or what sounds like the riff of "In the Midnight Hour")?

Brian wasn't there, it's Jagger and Richards on guitar.

Mathijs

Quote
His Majesty
Based on available evidence only(bootleg recordings, quotes by people involved), with the exception of one song(see below) Mick Jagger and Keith Richard wrote all the melody and lyrics for Jagger Richard credited songs during 1963 - 1969.

Up to about '67 it was even more simple: Richards wrote the melody and parts of the lyrics, and Jagger finished the lyrics or wrote them by himself.

Mathijs

Quote
Redhotcarpet
Geez, theres nothing wroong with Bills story. What Bill says, what the quote means, is not about what happened - literally - the next day. Sometime later ie when they rehearsed/recorded the song or sometime when Mick was bragging about their new hit, Bill felt he had to remind Mick of who's riff it actually was. It s not about weekdays.

I don't know what the "next day" and "we recorded it" could be addressing except for the next day after the riff first appeared.

I don't have Wyman's actual quote and it seems to vary.

Has anyone got Bill's actual original quote word for word?

[www.songfacts.com]

"He explained: "We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw, and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, 'Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it? And then the next day we recorded it. Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single."

[www.timeisonourside.com]

"We got to the studio early once and... in fact I think it was a rehearsal studio, I don't think it was a recording studio. And there was just myself, Brian and Charlie - the Stones NEVER arrive at the same time, you know - and Mick and Keith hadn't come. And I was just messing about and I just sat down at the piano and started doing this riff, da-daw, da-da-daw, da-da-daw... and then Brian played a bit of guitar and Charlie was doing a rhythm. We were just messing with it for 20 minutes, just filling in time, and Mick and Keith came in and we stopped and they said, Hey, that sounded really good, carry on, what is it?
- Oh, that was just something we were messing with.
- That sounds good.
And then the next day all I can really remember... we recorded it and Mick wrote great lyrics to it and it turned out to be a really good single."

If Bill wrote the riff, it had to be way earlier than what he claims.

About the "we" recorded it-quote: Is there a possibility that Bill did record it with the band, but his track got wiped later on?

It's obvious and understandible that a bit of blending of memories/mis-remembering could be at play. His memories of In Another Land don't quite fit with what is heard on the available bootlegs either.

Finding an interview where Keith credits Bill with the riff(If such a thing even exists, I assume it must be from soon after) would help validate Bill's claims about it.

Until then, for us, it's one man's word against another.

JJF is not Satisfaction backwards etc.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-29 14:23 by His Majesty.

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Mathijs

Quote
His Majesty
Based on available evidence only(bootleg recordings, quotes by people involved), with the exception of one song(see below) Mick Jagger and Keith Richard wrote all the melody and lyrics for Jagger Richard credited songs during 1963 - 1969.

Up to about '67 it was even more simple: Richards wrote the melody and parts of the lyrics, and Jagger finished the lyrics or wrote them by himself.

Mathijs

Jagger also came up with melodies.

Quote
His Majesty

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
His Majesty
Based on available evidence only(bootleg recordings, quotes by people involved), with the exception of one song(see below) Mick Jagger and Keith Richard wrote all the melody and lyrics for Jagger Richard credited songs during 1963 - 1969.

Up to about '67 it was even more simple: Richards wrote the melody and parts of the lyrics, and Jagger finished the lyrics or wrote them by himself.

Mathijs

Jagger also came up with melodies.

Probably while he was in the process of writing the lyrics - more like melody adjustments.

Quote

JJF is not Satisfaction backwards

They have the same heavy accented DA, DA to start of the riff, but then it varies as Satisfaction goes up and JJF goes down, and I think that's what Keith is talking about when he says JJF is Satisfaction in reverse, how Satisfaction ascends and JJF descends (reverses) after the DA DA.

Also, in the Surrey rehearsals, Keith hasn't just got the JJF riff alone.

Keith has already joined the JJF riff to the chorus in the Surrey rehearsal tape (no JJF words yet, at least not on the Surrey rehearsal tape).

Bill is not claiming credit for the chorus bit.

So if Bill's claim is taken as being true, then Keith seems to have the JJF riff earlier than Bill thinks and Keith has already joined the chorus bit to it at this early stage which seems to contradict Bill's claim.

Also there is the recording of JJF and it's many guitar layers and I don't know how long that took to get right and setup and arrange at the recording, but it's not exactly a simple recording.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-29 14:48 by howled.

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DandelionPowderman

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His Majesty

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
His Majesty
Based on available evidence only(bootleg recordings, quotes by people involved), with the exception of one song(see below) Mick Jagger and Keith Richard wrote all the melody and lyrics for Jagger Richard credited songs during 1963 - 1969.

Up to about '67 it was even more simple: Richards wrote the melody and parts of the lyrics, and Jagger finished the lyrics or wrote them by himself.

Mathijs

Jagger also came up with melodies.

Probably while he was in the process of writing the lyrics - more like melody adjustments.

Quotes from Mick tell us otherwise.

Not all songs arrived with melodies for all sections. Some merely had a riff and a hook line.

Quote
howled

Quote

JJF is not Satisfaction backwards

They have the same heavy accented DA, DA to start of the riff, but then it varies as Satisfaction goes up and JJF goes down, and I think that's what Keith is talking about when he says JJF is Satisfaction in reverse, how Satisfaction ascends and JJF descends (reverses) after the DA DA.

Also, in the Surrey rehearsals, Keith hasn't just got the JJF riff alone.

Keith has already joined the JJF riff to the chorus in the Surrey rehearsal tape (no JJF words yet, at least not on the Surrey rehearsal tape).

The riff and the chorus have been joined by that time. It tells us nothing of who wrote them.

Bill's story of coming up with the riff at a rehearsal can still be true even if he mis-remembers the timeline following it. The Surrey Rehearsals tape shows that he is mis-remembering, but not that he is lying about the creation of it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-29 14:52 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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howled

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JJF is not Satisfaction backwards

They have the same heavy accented DA, DA to start of the riff, but then it varies as Satisfaction goes up and JJF goes down, and I think that's what Keith is talking about when he says JJF is Satisfaction in reverse, how Satisfaction ascends and JJF descends (reverses) after the DA DA.

Also, in the Surrey rehearsals, Keith hasn't just got the JJF riff alone.

Keith has already joined the JJF riff to the chorus in the Surrey rehearsal tape (no JJF words yet, at least not on the Surrey rehearsal tape).

The riff and the chorus have been joined by that time. It tells us nothing of who wrote them.

Bill's story of coming up with the riff at a rehearsal can still be true even if he mis-remembers the timeline following it. The Surrey Rehearsals tape shows that he is mis-remembering, but not that he is lying about the creation of it.

But if we take Bill's quote, Keith gets the riff from Bill and then Keith whacks on the chorus and the intro and does the arrangement and writes the lyrics with Mick, all in one day.

Also Keith has the JJF and chorus way before Bill's next day recording wonder, in the Surrey rehearsal tapes.

Interesting.

Bill might be misremembering, but it casts some uncertainty on Bill's JJF claim.

Please stop being so silly.

Bill mis-remebering the timeline does not mean his claim about creating the riff is a lie.

The next dsy thing is most likley a mistake. His memories of In Another Land are wonky too.

You are just twisting things to suit your viewpoint. For you Bill is a liar when it comes to claims about JJF riff, but an absolute trusted authority about Brian never playing piano on stones songs or ever writing songs.

Once again, the bootleg only shows the riff and chorus exist by that time, nothing more!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-29 15:35 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
Please stop being so silly.

Bill mis-remebering the timeline does not mean his claim about creating the riff is a lie.

The next dsy thing is most likley a mistake. His memories of In Another Land are wonky too.

You are just twisting things to suit your viewpoint. For you Bill is a liar when it comes to claims about JJF riff, but an absolute trusted authority about Brian never playing piano on stones songs or ever writing songs.

Once again, the bootleg only shows the riff and chorus exist by that time, nothing more!

Well, I think your painting a more definite picture of my comments than anything I've actually said.

I'm actually not that definite about anything in particular, but some things might look more possible than some other things.

I don't know what happened, because I wasn't there.

Bill's claim is just that, a claim from one person.

It's a claim from one person, who apparently has some details wrong but at the same time he apparently kept a dairy of how much money he made and how many sexual encounters he had and other things in great detail but not apparently the JJF recording.

Bill's comments about Brian, are just that, Bill's comments about Brian.

Marianne's comments about Brian are just that, Marianne's comments about Brian.

When there are multiple comments from different sources saying the same sort of thing, then it's much more likely to have some truth in it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-03-29 15:50 by howled.

Ok, you seem very against the mere possibilty of anything that goes against Mick or Keith claims.

Moving on...

Right, so let's find the interviews Bill claims Keith mentions that Bill came up with the JJF riff.

I suspect such interviews don't exist though.

When did Jumpin' Jack, the gardener, show up?