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Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: duke richardson ()
Date: August 30, 2010 20:09

that version of mullet hairstyle..is that Mickey Hart? man thats funnygrinning smiley

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: proudmary ()
Date: August 30, 2010 20:35

no,I'm sorry,but i can't agree. quite the contrary - his eyes, his speech very much 'out of it'

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 31, 2010 01:17

Quote
bmuseed
Quote
Eleanor Rigby
Didn't Sam Cutler have a small gun with him at Altamont....perhaps this was used to force the helicopter pilot to fly at night after the show !!!!

Since you are soo close -- when I heard that the helicopters wouldn't fly at night and there was no way we were going to fight traffic to get out of there, I told one of my security guys (he was either a Fed-off duty- or a NYC detective), "keep the helicopter for our departure" This was before we knew what was happening. He told the pilot to wait and he got the 'we can't fly at night'... the security guy pulled his gun and said.. Wait Here! You note that we flew that night..and what a scary flight it was..


PS..Swiss, I had posted it in stories after I had posted it here (see Honestman)but it got lost when I transferred over to My Blog--

and for those that keep insisting that Mick was 'out of it'--just check his eyes in the video..clear and bright..and no we didn't have clear eyes or visine with us

hi Ron,

Sorry to hear you lost valuable content when you moved to yur blog - sucks! And unfortunately I'm not finding your story about going to Altamont the day before - in the thread Honestman points to. Only seeing the question and answer about Mick being out of it or not (I'm not so interested in that question). Oh well, if you come across anything else or write more I will be very interested. Stanley Booth says he was there. Says Keith stayed over night at cabin or trailer or something of Rock Scully's?

best
swiss

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 31, 2010 01:23

Quote
CBII
Charlie Watts proves his keen spider senses. He wasn't about to do anything on film that could get him hot water.

CBII - lol! grinning smiley

I don't think Charlie would be inclined to do what Mick instructed him to do regarding kissing a groupie with or without the camera on. Plus...his wife I think was on tour with them at that point anyway. Also, he wasn't much for groupies anyway. I think he means it (even though it's also funny) when he refuses, saying:

"No. Love is much more of a deeper thing than that. It's not flippantly to be thrown away on celluloid!"

- swiss

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: August 31, 2010 01:36

Hi Ron

Can't wait to read some other stories, I'd always like the little stories ,and you were there so thumbs up
I will add that we are f@#@"@ lucky with you, a real insider who took place beside
the STONES so closely, and that very kindly you took time to answer to some questions or comments here and there on this board. Much appreciated smileys with beer
That should be wrote IMO

@CB II & Swiss

The best Charlie's footage ever, short but awesome !

HMN

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: August 31, 2010 01:38

Another great quote from Charlie "It's not flippantly to be thrown away on celluloid!"

Thanks swiss, I didn't understand what Charlie was saying.

__________________________

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: August 31, 2010 02:56

Quote
NICOS
Another great quote from Charlie "It's not flippantly to be thrown away on celluloid!"

Thanks swiss, I didn't understand what Charlie was saying.

I second that, same for me, thanks Swiss thumbs up

HMN

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 31, 2010 04:11

Quote
NICOS
Another great quote from Charlie "It's not flippantly to be thrown away on celluloid!"

Thanks swiss, I didn't understand what Charlie was saying.

NICOS, it is such a great quote. Especially that he's talking about love and fidelity, in true Charlie eloquence.


Quote
Honestman
@CB II & Swiss

The best Charlie's footage ever, short but awesome !

I agree -- I adore that segment! It says much about charlie's integrity, and Mick & Charlies's dynamics, doesn't it?

Without Charlie's cooperation in his little Kiss the Dolly charade, Mick has to say "Ok...we cut." and does so with an adorable shrug and eye-blink admitting defeat: that his strong will was gently but unmistakably thwarted by Charlie.

- swiss

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: moonchild57 ()
Date: August 31, 2010 05:56

Definitely Mickey Hart, and Bill Kreutzmann with Jerry. I'm wondering who the dude is that walks out with Phil Lesh?

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: moonchild57 ()
Date: August 31, 2010 06:04

and furthermore, wonder what he's got in that briefcase he's carrying?? Bob Weir sure seems interested!!

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: bmuseed ()
Date: August 31, 2010 20:44

Since there are a lot of comments about Charlie-- a little post from my blog

Enough about sex, drugs and rock and roll and now about love. On the earlier tours, '65 and '66, the costs offset any profit. In some cases the costs were more than the profit... The most expensive cost was Charlie Watts' phone bill. While Mick, Keith, Brian and Bill were out doing 'things' during the tour, Charlie would be in his room on the phone with his wife, Shirley. His phone bill exceeded his share of the income. I would tease Charlie but always envied his devotion. Charlie and Shirley are an example of true love, still together after everything. That's a rock and roll challenge and an example for more to copy.

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: August 31, 2010 23:31

bmuseed what is your take on the dead not playing at altamont? did they chicken shit or was it something else?

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: slakka ()
Date: August 31, 2010 23:32

Hi Ronnie,
Man did you guys give Sam Cutler the dumpereeno. May I please probe for reasons??
I suspect Stu was taken aback by Sams unprofessional groupie habit and made his feelings known to the twins. Am I righty??

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: bmuseed ()
Date: September 1, 2010 01:29

Quote
melillo
bmuseed what is your take on the dead not playing at altamont? did they chicken shit or was it something else?
I wasn't aware they didn't play until I saw the film..based on my experiences with them, they might have thought they saw Godzilla..and ran..

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: bmuseed ()
Date: September 1, 2010 01:41

Quote
slakka
Hi Ronnie,
Man did you guys give Sam Cutler the dumpereeno. May I please probe for reasons??
I suspect Stu was taken aback by Sams unprofessional groupie habit and made his feelings known to the twins. Am I righty??

Hi Slakka...
It wasn't so much a case of dumpreeno as disappeareno..As far as we knew at the time, Sam, disappeared or was in hiding, Many times I would hear some 'Sam' rumor like he was hiding out on a ranch in Texas, he was in Mexico, or he was in jail.. If Stu said anything, I am not aware..and I don't think he would care about any 'habits', as long as the job got done.. (you ever see the incredible book tribute to Stu?)

We were all told that we were on an Angel's hit list. Which brought on many interesting occurrences..see my blog about Paris which I posted here first..

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: September 1, 2010 06:21

Quote
bmuseed
Since there are a lot of comments about Charlie-- a little post from my blog

Enough about sex, drugs and rock and roll and now about love. On the earlier tours, '65 and '66, the costs offset any profit. In some cases the costs were more than the profit... The most expensive cost was Charlie Watts' phone bill. While Mick, Keith, Brian and Bill were out doing 'things' during the tour, Charlie would be in his room on the phone with his wife, Shirley. His phone bill exceeded his share of the income. I would tease Charlie but always envied his devotion. Charlie and Shirley are an example of true love, still together after everything. That's a rock and roll challenge and an example for more to copy.

That's amazing - Charlie is a darling!

Seems from a couple of your comments you might not've been the hugest fan of the Dead winking smiley Why is that?

I would love to read more of what you said you'd written about going to Altamont the day before. You mentioned the thread Honestman pointed to but it's not there or any other thread on this site, or your blog. If you come across anything else or write more will you post it?

Stanley Booth says he was there and he says Keith stayed overnight at Altamont, in a cabin or trailer or something of Rock Scully's -- is that how you remember it?

thanks
swiss

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: Jesse1960 ()
Date: September 1, 2010 16:14

Quote
swiss
Quote
bmuseed
Since there are a lot of comments about Charlie-- a little post from my blog

Enough about sex, drugs and rock and roll and now about love. On the earlier tours, '65 and '66, the costs offset any profit. In some cases the costs were more than the profit... The most expensive cost was Charlie Watts' phone bill. While Mick, Keith, Brian and Bill were out doing 'things' during the tour, Charlie would be in his room on the phone with his wife, Shirley. His phone bill exceeded his share of the income. I would tease Charlie but always envied his devotion. Charlie and Shirley are an example of true love, still together after everything. That's a rock and roll challenge and an example for more to copy.

That's amazing - Charlie is a darling!

Seems from a couple of your comments you might not've been the hugest fan of the Dead winking smiley Why is that?

I would love to read more of what you said you'd written about going to Altamont the day before. You mentioned the thread Honestman pointed to but it's not there or any other thread on this site, or your blog. If you come across anything else or write more will you post it?

Stanley Booth says he was there and he says Keith stayed overnight at Altamont, in a cabin or trailer or something of Rock Scully's -- is that how you remember it?

thanks
swiss[/quote


Count me in with those who take Stanley Booth and his "recollections" with a huge grain of salt. Considering this guy excuses James Brown who while cracked out, pulled a loaded gun on a group of old ladies and then lead police on a 2 state car chase. Unlike Booth, R S actually had a job to do.Not just free-loading with a steno pad.

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: Brown Moses ()
Date: September 1, 2010 18:31

I think the guy with Phil Lesh is Tom Constanten who played keys with the Dead for a bit around this time.

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: bmuseed ()
Date: September 1, 2010 18:48

As to the Grateful Dead... I have to confess, I never did Acid *(LSD) which was a challenge and will deprecate me in some hippie's eyes. While having to work out of their office I made sure to never touch or drink anything! I saw suits think they were being safe by going over to the 5 gallon water cooler dispenser and take a dixie cup and pour out some water and think, since it's bottled water I'm okay..not realizing the cups were dosed..
I only liked one of their songs... Casey Jones..(still do). Never considered them Rock and Roll--- just Roll.. by the way, Stones fans.. the Dead fans seem more fervent. Man are they devoted with their radio stations etc..
Now as to Stanley Booth. I never trusted writers as they have their own agenda. I thought that Stanley would see, know and report what really went on and understand where I was coming from. When his book finally came out, I was upset, stunned, and discouraged. I have my copy with about 1/3 of it marked with paperclips denoting the pages where he got it wrong. It came out that he was hiding that he was working on a book deal and it seems that he transferred his guilt and paranoia to me. His final disclaimer left any recourse, mute.. that disclaimer was something like--if I got it wrong or made any mistakes, I'm sorry but it was the drugs.. So he got a lot of it wrong and I have to assume it was the drugs and the fact that he didn't do the book until 1984 ( I just saw there was a 2000 revision reissue..haven't seen that one and wonder if he made the corrections)

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: September 1, 2010 19:53

Regarding Stanley doing his book in 1984, portions of it, the parts about him visitng England during Brian's autumn 68 trial etc was published in Eye magazine in spring 1969.

The very same artciles were re-used 14 years or so later as a few chapters in his book.

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: deadegad ()
Date: September 1, 2010 20:29

Quote
duke richardson
that version of mullet hairstyle..is that Mickey Hart? man thats funnygrinning smiley

I took another look and it is not a mullet, but, rather, it is very long hair pulled very tight into a long pony tail. Below the pony tail not, or band, his hair explodes into something completely different.

Still it does look funny! LOL!

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: September 3, 2010 06:31

Quote
bmuseed
As to the Grateful Dead... I have to confess, I never did Acid *(LSD) which was a challenge and will deprecate me in some hippie's eyes. While having to work out of their office I made sure to never touch or drink anything! I saw suits think they were being safe by going over to the 5 gallon water cooler dispenser and take a dixie cup and pour out some water and think, since it's bottled water I'm okay..not realizing the cups were dosed.

amazing!

I'd be interested to learn more about how the Stones and Dead viewed each other and got along.

It's funny...you can hear the slightest bit of derision in your tone in that clip, when you say "Mick, you know Jerry, don't you?" smiling smiley

Which isn't so surprising. You're East Coast/Miami/NY, which is a radically different--and in 1969, even more so--from West Coast/San Francisco vibe, attitude, mentality! Particularly if you weren't into psychedelics, I would think.

Quote
bmuseed
I only liked one of their songs... Casey Jones..(still do). Never considered them Rock and Roll--- just Roll.. by the way, Stones fans.. the Dead fans seem more fervent. Man are they devoted with their radio stations etc..
Now as to Stanley Booth. I never trusted writers as they have their own agenda. I thought that Stanley would see, know and report what really went on and understand where I was coming from. When his book finally came out, I was upset, stunned, and discouraged. I have my copy with about 1/3 of it marked with paperclips denoting the pages where he got it wrong. It came out that he was hiding that he was working on a book deal and it seems that he transferred his guilt and paranoia to me. His final disclaimer left any recourse, mute.. that disclaimer was something like--if I got it wrong or made any mistakes, I'm sorry but it was the drugs.. So he got a lot of it wrong and I have to assume it was the drugs and the fact that he didn't do the book until 1984 ( I just saw there was a 2000 revision reissue..haven't seen that one and wonder if he made the corrections)

ha...I didn't even remember what he'd said about you in his book. But you were there and if stuff was written about you, you'd naturallyly feel strongly about it. For an observer in the peanut gallery, like me, I'll happily take stories and recollections from anyone who has them. Together they form a mosiac for those of us who weren't there and who have to rely on others' memories, perceptions, personal filters, and, sure, agendas.

So, you think in that video clip Mick refers to the night before at Altamont as "insane" and "you would not believe it" because of the campfire, passing wine and joints -- and the crowd silently following around Mick and Keith? It sounds special, but he's so excited by whatever happened.

Anyway - thanks for posting
swiss

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: September 3, 2010 17:00

Taylor plays a great rhythm guitar here, especially at 2:42, very funky.




Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: bmuseed ()
Date: September 3, 2010 18:39

In reply to Swiss and (So, you think in that video clip Mick refers to the night before at Altamont as "insane" and "you would not believe it" because of the campfire, passing wine and joints -- and the crowd silently following around Mick and Keith? It sounds special, but he's so excited by whatever happened.)

Yes I would say it was special..we were in the middle of nowhere at night and just like I said there was a bad 'vibe' during the next day, that night had a magic 'vibe'. Everyone was quiet, no screaming, no fans running over to say "Mick can I have an autograph". It was so special that Keith said he wanted to stay and did! It is hard to convey what the feeling was as we walked and then looked behind us to see a large crowd silently following.
Turns out it was the lull before the storm.

As to how the Stones felt about the Dead...I don't know..

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: Eleanor Rigby ()
Date: September 3, 2010 19:30

Quote
bmuseed
As to the Grateful Dead... I have to confess, I never did Acid *(LSD) which was a challenge and will deprecate me in some hippie's eyes. While having to work out of their office I made sure to never touch or drink anything! I saw suits think they were being safe by going over to the 5 gallon water cooler dispenser and take a dixie cup and pour out some water and think, since it's bottled water I'm okay..not realizing the cups were dosed..
I only liked one of their songs... Casey Jones..(still do). Never considered them Rock and Roll--- just Roll.. by the way, Stones fans.. the Dead fans seem more fervent. Man are they devoted with their radio stations etc..
Now as to Stanley Booth. I never trusted writers as they have their own agenda. I thought that Stanley would see, know and report what really went on and understand where I was coming from. When his book finally came out, I was upset, stunned, and discouraged. I have my copy with about 1/3 of it marked with paperclips denoting the pages where he got it wrong. It came out that he was hiding that he was working on a book deal and it seems that he transferred his guilt and paranoia to me. His final disclaimer left any recourse, mute.. that disclaimer was something like--if I got it wrong or made any mistakes, I'm sorry but it was the drugs.. So he got a lot of it wrong and I have to assume it was the drugs and the fact that he didn't do the book until 1984 ( I just saw there was a 2000 revision reissue..haven't seen that one and wonder if he made the corrections)

haha...in other words, I'll write crap about you but if it's wrong it's because of drugs!!

any chance you might put a some pen to paper? I reckon most of us here would be very interested.

Also, after reading all sources it is truely amazing that Keith would stay overnight at Altamont...would that happen today? doubt it. I think that just sums up what a beautiful evening it was - the night before the storm.

bmuseed - did u speak with Sonny Barger that night of the concert? Did you (or Sam, or Jagger) know who were the leaders of the Angels were that night? It seemed no-one knew who was running the show with the Angels.

thanks,
Eleanor

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: bmuseed ()
Date: September 3, 2010 20:34

Didn't speak with Sonny but he did assign 2 angels to me as protection--that lasted for about a minute and half--they moved too slow and that was that when I moved quickly. They were assigned after I nearly got punched. When you came to the back of the stage, you had to be assisted onto the stage as it was too high to just step up.. an Angel offered his hand to me and had his other hand in a fist as he prepared to pull me up and punch me in the face..(stage security) Sonny came over and told the Angel I was Okay..and then assigned this giant guy with a big hat and a beard and a smaller short stocky guy to me. As I was running around checking all the rumors they refused to run..

As to a book.. years ago I was approached by different agents to do a book. They wanted the scummy dirt. I always said that wasn't necessary--the fans love the stories (ala this site) and I wasn't saying no to groupies, drugs, and rock and roll stories, just no to the hateful, hurtful benefiting no one stories. ( I do have a few that I have never seen told nor should they be as they were very personal and I defer to the Stones for them ). They always passed. Now with the shambles the book publishing industry is in, they tell me there is no money (especially from Stones fans).
Since doing the i Phone/iPod touch app for Sam, I have been thinking of telling my stories with my horrible voice and doing an app so I can have the videos, pics and more stuff.
It is interesting that the people I worked with on only one tour have all done books and I was on 4 tours, did a movie with Herman's Hermits, and was the only one that was with ABKCO for 7 years and worked with various other artists and films...courtesy of my Uncle Allen Klein.

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Date: September 4, 2010 01:39

Well, I guess you feel fortunate it was a different mentality back then
and that legal repercussions didn't follow vis-à-vis the gun / heli.

Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: crumbling_mice ()
Date: September 4, 2010 01:48

Quote
Wanton Witch of the Côte
Well, I guess you feel fortunate it was a different mentality back then
and that legal repercussions didn't follow vis-à-vis the gun / heli.


winking smiley


Re: Jagger and the Dead video pre Altamont
Posted by: slew ()
Date: September 4, 2010 16:47

No Expectations - I should not sit here and slag other people's favorite musicians I just don't like the Dead. If you enjoy them it certainly does not affect my life in way, shape or form and they do have some songs that I really like but overall not a fan!

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