i think it's how the album is mixed that makes people not take notice of Taylor's contribution to Exile.

compare Sticky Fingers & Exile (and even Goats).
On SF Taylor makes certain songs his own and has a huge presence due to his soaring solos (CYHMK, Sway, DF etc..). On Exile he still adds some tremendous guitar work but they don't stand out as much (e.g. Shine, SBD, ADTL etc...). All excellent guitar work but somehow you don't notice it as much...understand?
Perhaps it's the guitar/amps used?? But certainly the mix is pretty muddy.

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Eleanor Rigby
On Exile he still adds some tremendous guitar work but they don't stand out as much

Maybe that is why Exile on Main St stands out as one of the best rock albums of all
time. Not one person in the band is standing out. It is just one boiling pot of red
hot rock 'n roll. Every now and then one of the ingredients is sticking out its head,
but over all we are overwhelmed by the sound of all players together. Not even the
lead vocalist stands out on this album.

I guess that was a unique aproach of recording music during a time when lots of bands
were just stressing out the individual capacity of some of their instrumentalists.



Disclaimer: I am not a connaisseur on the recording of albums nor the technical aspects
of playing guitar. I am just a consumer of rock 'n roll. So I wrote just about what I
hear and what it does to me. It is nothing educated.

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His Majesty
They really should have used him for more than just PMS! The other tracks on which he is absent sound odd without him.

Exactly! Which leads to the suspicion about any contribution at all -- even on PMS.

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1cdog

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His Majesty
They really should have used him for more than just PMS! The other tracks on which he is absent sound odd without him.

Exactly! Which leads to the suspicion about any contribution at all -- even on PMS.

..The newspaper, The Plain Dealer is one of the most respected papers in the country. The interview and quotes are on the record. Any suspicions that he didn't play on PMS is just denial....and that ain't just a river in Egypt.

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Doxa
Mick and Mick: the secret love affair of The Rolling Stones - not much talked aloud. But some quotes:

I think he had a big contribution. He made it very musical. He was a very fluent, melodic player, which we never had, and we don’t have now. Neither Keith nor [Ronnie Wood] plays that kind of style. It was very good for me working with him. Charlie and I were talking about this the other day, because we could sit down – I could sit down – with Mick Taylor, and he would play very fluid lines against my vocals. He was exciting, and he was very pretty, and it gave me something to follow, to bang off. Some people think that’s the best version of the band that existed. - Mick Jagger, 1995

He made up a vocal to fit the backing track, then called me in to do some guitar parts. It turned out wonderful. It was nice to see Mick again. It was easy for me to get into that frame of mind where I was playing rock 'n' roll guitar behind his voice. I lead my own band now, and we're more of a blues band. We don't really touch upon the blues-rock style of music that the Stones do. So it was great to have the opportunity to express what some people would call my old style of playing. I wouldn't call it old. I'd just call it good. - Mick Taylor, 2010

Do those two quotes cohere nicley? Don't they?

But three is a crowd:

Mick Taylor wasn't good for the Stones. It was a sterile period for us 'cause there were things we had to force through. Maybe it's just me. It was a period we had to go through. Also, Mick is such a LEAD guitarist, which completely destroyed the whole concept of the Stones... - Keith Richards

So it is not a big surprise why the subject Mick taylor does arise some feelings also among the Rolling Stones fans...

- Doxa

Exactly, you hit the nail on the head. And this confuses me about the majority of you guys....on the one hand you all say that this period with Taylor was the best, and yet you all prefer Keith over Taylor????? Whilest from the qoutes above it is clear that the Stones you all consider best is the JAGGER-TAYLOR axis, and the Stones you all dislike most is how RICHARDS wants it to be.... What do you guys want? Free your minds and dare to think outside of your boxes.

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jamesjagger
He will be defenitely involved in the upcoming new Rolling Stones album. Belive me guys...

that will never ever happen, as long as Keith is working with the Stones

only the licks during the second verse sound even vaguely like classic taylor, immidiately followed by the second chorus in which he doesn't.
no question about it.
its great to hear nevertheless

....Jagger hasn't sounded this good (on PMS) in a long time....Taylor playing underneath him is a fresh breath of air...

Again, read carefully Doxa's qoutes above. The Stones you all claim to love is the JAGGER-TAYLOR axis, and the Stones most of you call a decline is the Stones as Keith wants it to be. It is no coincidence that the Jagger-Taylor axis happened when Keith was to stoned out to have a leading role and Jagger was practically running the band on his own (as Keith later admitted). Since Keith got rid off the monkey on his back, that has changed. You can't have aliegence to Keith and want the Jagger-Taylor axis the same time, that's impossible as proofen by Keith's qoute;

Mick Taylor wasn't good for the Stones. It was a sterile period for us 'cause there were things we had to force through. Maybe it's just me. It was a period we had to go through. Also, Mick is such a LEAD guitarist, which completely destroyed the whole concept of the Stones... - Keith Richards

The conclusion is obvious isn't it.

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behroez
The Stones you all claim to love is the JAGGER-TAYLOR axis,

Not me.

But there;s no denying the 2 Micks worked well together.

"Mick Taylor wasn't good for the Stones. It was a sterile period for us 'cause there were things we had to force through. Maybe it's just me. It was a period we had to go through. Also, Mick is such a LEAD guitarist, which completely destroyed the whole concept of the Stones"... - Keith Richards

So Keith thinks that Sticky Fingers thru IORR are sterile Stones efforts?

Does he also think the Stones concerts from '69 - 73 are not representative of what Keith thought the Stones should sound like?

But he likes the Woody era?


Uh, yes Keith. It is just you.

"Mick Taylor wasn't good for the Stones. It was a sterile period for us 'cause there were things we had to force through. Maybe it's just me. It was a period we had to go through. Also, Mick is such a LEAD guitarist, which completely destroyed the whole concept of the Stones... - Keith Richards"

This quote ranks alongside Muddy Waters painting the *&^%$ ceiling. Taylor's brilliant guitar work is beyond debate. Taylor brought a power to their guitar sound that left with him.

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fuman
"Mick Taylor wasn't good for the Stones. It was a sterile period for us 'cause there were things we had to force through. Maybe it's just me. It was a period we had to go through. Also, Mick is such a LEAD guitarist, which completely destroyed the whole concept of the Stones"... - Keith Richards

So Keith thinks that Sticky Fingers thru IORR are sterile Stones efforts?

Does he also think the Stones concerts from '69 - 73 are not representative of what Keith thought the Stones should sound like?

But he likes the Woody era?


Uh, yes Keith. It is just you.

Not just that, he can't play anymore either. No matter how much we all love the "old" Keith he has now become a big, big stand in the way.

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Doxa
Mick and Mick: the secret love affair of The Rolling Stones - not much talked aloud. But some quotes:

I think he had a big contribution. He made it very musical. He was a very fluent, melodic player, which we never had, and we don’t have now. Neither Keith nor [Ronnie Wood] plays that kind of style. It was very good for me working with him. Charlie and I were talking about this the other day, because we could sit down – I could sit down – with Mick Taylor, and he would play very fluid lines against my vocals. He was exciting, and he was very pretty, and it gave me something to follow, to bang off. Some people think that’s the best version of the band that existed. - Mick Jagger, 1995

He made up a vocal to fit the backing track, then called me in to do some guitar parts. It turned out wonderful. It was nice to see Mick again. It was easy for me to get into that frame of mind where I was playing rock 'n' roll guitar behind his voice. I lead my own band now, and we're more of a blues band. We don't really touch upon the blues-rock style of music that the Stones do. So it was great to have the opportunity to express what some people would call my old style of playing. I wouldn't call it old. I'd just call it good. - Mick Taylor, 2010


- Doxa

Thanks for those quotes. The date of Mick Jagger's quote kind of surprised me........thought maybe it was from the mid '80s when
Stones weren't "together".

Was it Goats Head when keith was slightly out of commission (drugs)...and Mick J's relationship grew with MIck Taylor??

Not really surprised that Keith felt a little threatened and said that Mick Taylor was "not good for the Stones".
Giving the benefit of the doubt.....there was probably a mix of paranoia, ego & other stuff with the drugs.

If I'm not mistaken, Keith was fine with Taylor joining them for a show in '81....might've even been his idea.
And more recently Keith has been quoted as saying very positive things about MT


IORR............but I like it!

What I am curious about is why did Jagger ask Taylor to record on ONE song that didn't have Taylor out of all of the songs that don't have Taylor on them that are featured that way anyway? Why not fill the rest of them out? Did Mick J think the one song Mick T was to do new recordings on the only worthwhile track to bother with? Kind of seems like it eh? From what I can tell it's the only track that sounds like it really could have made Exile - the rest sound utterly disconnected from the Exile sound even.

The one that Keith put some electric guitar on my grandmother could have done a better job and she's 85 years old. Well now we know who can still play the guitar har har.

If Mick & Mick really only spent a half hour as Mick J claims then I guess Keith spent 10 seconds on his electric OD for the extra track.

How strange. They could have really done it up right as far as new overdubs with Mick Taylor. Of course the fact that the tracks even got considered and transferred to begin with says a lot and we now have these extra tracks that of all of them it seems only Plundered sounds complete. In regards to being a true newly overdubbed Exile leftover ha ha. I'm getting a better understanding of why some people say this tune sounds like a leftover from A Bigger Bang and or Mick's solo album etc.

<If I'm not mistaken, Keith was fine with Taylor joining them for a show in '81....might've even been his idea.>

On the contrary: According to Ron Wood Taylor was playing too loud,and playing guitar solos when nobody asked him for. Keith during the concert :"I'am going to kill him " or something like that. Ron Wood could not imagine Taylor and Richards had worked together for 5 years..

But that's Mick Taylor:I think in 1981 the Stones had forgotten what a hell of a guitarplayer he was....

Why has Jagger never used MT for his solo records? I mean they have done fantastic songs together like Winter, Sway, Moonlight Mile....

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jamesjagger
Why has Jagger never used MT for his solo records? I mean they have done fantastic songs together like Winter, Sway, Moonlight Mile....

Yes together they were great. But if you make a solo album, you want to keep the spotlight on yourself, and Taylor is very present when he is (that's why Keith wanted to "kill him" during Taylor's surprise appearence at a Stones concert in 81 as Amsterdamned just pointed out).

But in a band circumstance that is a very different scenario, and anyones omni-presence (it being Jones on exotic intruments or Taylor's solo guitar) is an asset to the whole of the band's endeavour, and look how bright Jagger is about having played with Taylor again now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-17 18:18 by behroez.

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sweet neo con

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Doxa
Mick and Mick: the secret love affair of The Rolling Stones - not much talked aloud. But some quotes:

I think he had a big contribution. He made it very musical. He was a very fluent, melodic player, which we never had, and we don’t have now. Neither Keith nor [Ronnie Wood] plays that kind of style. It was very good for me working with him. Charlie and I were talking about this the other day, because we could sit down – I could sit down – with Mick Taylor, and he would play very fluid lines against my vocals. He was exciting, and he was very pretty, and it gave me something to follow, to bang off. Some people think that’s the best version of the band that existed. - Mick Jagger, 1995

He made up a vocal to fit the backing track, then called me in to do some guitar parts. It turned out wonderful. It was nice to see Mick again. It was easy for me to get into that frame of mind where I was playing rock 'n' roll guitar behind his voice. I lead my own band now, and we're more of a blues band. We don't really touch upon the blues-rock style of music that the Stones do. So it was great to have the opportunity to express what some people would call my old style of playing. I wouldn't call it old. I'd just call it good. - Mick Taylor, 2010


- Doxa

Was it Goats Head when keith was slightly out of commission (drugs)...and Mick J's relationship grew with MIck Taylor??

Yes - I've read that Jagger and Taylor were looking at changing the sound of the Stones at this time, moving, some would say maturing, beyond their past albums. I have a feeling that this was quashed, perhaps by KR, who would have been sidelined if the Stones changed musical direction, or perhaps by the business management who feared a sharp loss of income if the public reacted badly to a new sound.

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Amsterdamned
<If I'm not mistaken, Keith was fine with Taylor joining them for a show in '81....might've even been his idea.>

On the contrary: According to Ron Wood Taylor was playing too loud,and playing guitar solos when nobody asked him for. Keith during the concert :"I'am going to kill him " or something like that. Ron Wood could not imagine Taylor and Richards had worked together for 5 years..

But that's Mick Taylor:I think in 1981 the Stones had forgotten what a hell of a guitarplayer he was....

Taylor played because of Keith´s invitation...

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DandelionPowderman

Quote
Amsterdamned
<If I'm not mistaken, Keith was fine with Taylor joining them for a show in '81....might've even been his idea.>

On the contrary: According to Ron Wood Taylor was playing too loud,and playing guitar solos when nobody asked him for. Keith during the concert :"I'am going to kill him " or something like that. Ron Wood could not imagine Taylor and Richards had worked together for 5 years..

But that's Mick Taylor:I think in 1981 the Stones had forgotten what a hell of a guitarplayer he was....

Taylor played because of Keith´s invitation...

I didn't deny that; but I'am afraid Keith had his regrets ,if we have to believe Ron...

Why should we? We have only heard this from Ronnie (who also claims Keith got annoyed by Taylor playing loud) and from Mac (who complained himself in his book).

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DandelionPowderman
Why should we? We have only heard this from Ronnie (who also claims Keith got annoyed by Taylor playing loud) and from Mac (who complained himself in his book).

What's the message,DP?

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jamesjagger
Why has Jagger never used MT for his solo records? I mean they have done fantastic songs together like Winter, Sway, Moonlight Mile....

i could see him asking MT in the mid '80s if he really wanted to piss Keith off (even more).....
.but he probably wanted those albums to be true solo albums with no Stones ties.....and likely
did not want to cause irreparable damage w/Keith & Stones..just in case solo thing didn't work out as planned.

as i remember KR & MT were quite friendly at the R&R Hall of Fame induction.

it could've been interesting if the Stones had invited MT to join in on the Stripped Sessions...with the understanding
(for RW's sake) that it be a one time only special circumstance....to revisit some songs from the MT era.


IORR............but I like it!

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sweet neo con

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jamesjagger
Why has Jagger never used MT for his solo records? I mean they have done fantastic songs together like Winter, Sway, Moonlight Mile....

i could see him asking MT in the mid '80s if he really wanted to piss Keith off (even more).....
.but he probably wanted those albums to be true solo albums with no Stones ties.....and likely
did not want to cause irreparable damage w/Keith & Stones..just in case solo thing didn't work out as planned.

.

And most likely, it was the mid-80's and Jagger never been a fan of looking back. In fact, Jagger was very much looking forward at teh time to create a Rolling Stones- free world. Bringing Taylor "back" - and thereby, looking back to unfashionable 70's - would have been SOOOOOO RETRO and UNCOOL in the 80's. I guess part of the Keith's plan to ask Taylor to play in TALK IS CHEAP was to piss off Jagger.

- Doxa

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orson

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jamesjagger
He will be defenitely involved in the upcoming new Rolling Stones album. Belive me guys...

that will never ever happen, as long as Keith is working with the Stones

The bloke might never get out of the hospital as it stands right now. I reckon you can only get pneumonia so many times before it catches you.

< I guess part of the Keith's plan to ask Taylor to play in TALK IS CHEAP was to piss off Jagger.

- Doxa>

LOL

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Doxa
I guess part of the Keith's plan to ask Taylor to play in TALK IS CHEAP was to piss off Jagger.

- Doxa

yep..I COULD HAVE STOOD YOU UP


IORR............but I like it!

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windmelody
Saying that Taylor played a minor role on Exile is ridiculous.

It is indeed. The fingerprint of MickT is so obvious that noone did seriously denied that at those times. He helped achieve what Brian Jones may have dreamed of : a Rolling Stones # 1 for the 70s and more. Noone would have thought of such a"back-to-he roots" album after Sticky Fingers. Noone would have bet on that. They did it because MickT and his musical background was so much part of The Stones.