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ye!thats a fair enough statement..well said.Quote
Edward Twining
I think the problem is when you reach such enormous highs and you are so very rightly regarded by many to be the 'greatest rock 'n' roll band in the world', it is a great deal further to fall, which is pretty much what has happened with the Stones, although realistically it has been a good thirty odd years since they truly deserved that title. Without meaning to sound too negative, slew, it has also been a good thirty odd years since Mick and Keith lost the consistency of their songwriting/arranging muse, not the last 5 or 6 years as you inferred. However, you are essentially right, the Stones have never really matured significantly in their subject matter - they have never really sang about more mature, intimate or political subjects, certainly not to any great degree, and the sex and drugs and rock 'n' roll subject matter does tend to seem a little insincere once the realisation comes that the Stones are now of pensionable age. Keith has to a point matured within the type of ballads he has been singing in more recent times, even if overall he still lacks the muse which was so evident in much of the music of his youth.
I think the gulf between the quality of the guitar playing of Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood is immense, although i think it's fair to say Ronnie was far more impressive when he was in the Faces and didn't have to play a secondary role to Keith. In many ways he has forfeited his own musical journey in joining the Stones, and to a degree i feel for him. Those early tours with the Stones didn't show him off truly in the best light because he was pretty much filling in the Mick Taylor role, as the arrangements were still very much Mick Taylor era based. Taylor's forte isn't shared by Ronnie, although i thought he actually did an admirable job, despite the fact of Mick being a very hard act to follow. It was only really on the 78 and the succeeding 81-82 tours that he could be a little more himself and come into his own, and the Ronnie and Keith method of 'weaving' really came into its own, although i'm tempted to be a little suspectful to the true value of such terms.
I have never really believed Ronnie was the right man for the job of replacing Taylor in purely musical terms, but maybe his temperament had a soothing effect especially within the relationship of Mick and Keith. Musically, he's done very little of any real significance, unlike his predecessors Brian Jones and Mick Taylor, but really neither have the Stones been especially impressive. But as i've said previously, post 1989 i think it's unfair to use him as the scapegoat when the other members of the group have been equally lacking.
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Edward Twining
I think the gulf between the quality of the guitar playing of Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood is immense
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roryfaninva
Great post- agreed 100% I always thought the "weaving" concept was hype used to cover for the fact that musical focus was being lost to cringe worthy posing, noodling, and lots of smoke with very little fire. When you listen to gigs from 69-72- when keith takes the lead, Taylor keeps the rhythm going and the sound
stays full and fat. Not just random stabs in between drags off a cigarette, play a bit here, pose a bit there, bend a string and grimace like youre giving birth. Ironic when you consider what a great job Wood did holding it down on his own with the Faces. I do recall an interview where Glyn Johns opined that Wood joining the Stones was a tragic squandering of potential and a demotion to comic foil/second bannana.
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liddasQuote
Edward Twining
I think the gulf between the quality of the guitar playing of Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood is immense
You think wrongly. No way Ronnie was a less skilled player than MT.
Two different styles. But two very very personal musicians. Hard to beat both.
C
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Edward Twining
Deluxtone, you make an interesting point concerning Ronnie's bass playing. I believe it was he who played bass on Emotional Rescue (the song), which i have always thought was pretty unique.
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kleermaker
In fact I've never chopped Ron's head off, neither have I offended others. Okay, there was some quarreling with behroez, but only shortly and no big deal. We're great friend again, actually. Behroez, please confirm!!!
To get back to the topic: my questions were neutral. And they had little or nothing to do with Ron Wood or Mick Taylor.
Sometimes discussions are heated and sharp, but normally they also cool off spontaneously. But I guess I'll better be away for a while. I've written too many posts anyway, these last days.
So see ya!
hilarious post and so true .Quote
roryfaninva
Great post- agreed 100% I always thought the "weaving" concept was hype used to cover for the fact that musical focus was being lost to cringe worthy posing, noodling, and lots of smoke with very little fire. When you listen to gigs from 69-72- when keith takes the lead, Taylor keeps the rhythm going and the sound
stays full and fat. Not just random stabs in between drags off a cigarette, play a bit here, pose a bit there, bend a string and grimace like youre giving birth. Ironic when you consider what a great job Wood did holding it down on his own with the Faces. I do recall an interview where Glyn Johns opined that Wood joining the Stones was a tragic squandering of potential and a demotion to comic foil/second bannana.
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straycatblues73hilarious post and so true .Quote
roryfaninva
Great post- agreed 100% I always thought the "weaving" concept was hype used to cover for the fact that musical focus was being lost to cringe worthy posing, noodling, and lots of smoke with very little fire. When you listen to gigs from 69-72- when keith takes the lead, Taylor keeps the rhythm going and the sound
stays full and fat. Not just random stabs in between drags off a cigarette, play a bit here, pose a bit there, bend a string and grimace like youre giving birth. Ironic when you consider what a great job Wood did holding it down on his own with the Faces. I do recall an interview where Glyn Johns opined that Wood joining the Stones was a tragic squandering of potential and a demotion to comic foil/second bannana.
i think the best and earliest example (in stereo) of true weaving got to be I Got The Blues
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Edward Twining
Deluxtone, you make an interesting point concerning Ronnie's bass playing. I believe it was he who played bass on Emotional Rescue (the song), which i have always thought was pretty unique.
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
straycatblues73hilarious post and so true .Quote
roryfaninva
Great post- agreed 100% I always thought the "weaving" concept was hype used to cover for the fact that musical focus was being lost to cringe worthy posing, noodling, and lots of smoke with very little fire. When you listen to gigs from 69-72- when keith takes the lead, Taylor keeps the rhythm going and the sound
stays full and fat. Not just random stabs in between drags off a cigarette, play a bit here, pose a bit there, bend a string and grimace like youre giving birth. Ironic when you consider what a great job Wood did holding it down on his own with the Faces. I do recall an interview where Glyn Johns opined that Wood joining the Stones was a tragic squandering of potential and a demotion to comic foil/second bannana.
i think the best and earliest example (in stereo) of true weaving got to be I Got The Blues
Keith plays both of the weaving guitars on the album version, no?
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straycatblues73Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
straycatblues73hilarious post and so true .Quote
roryfaninva
Great post- agreed 100% I always thought the "weaving" concept was hype used to cover for the fact that musical focus was being lost to cringe worthy posing, noodling, and lots of smoke with very little fire. When you listen to gigs from 69-72- when keith takes the lead, Taylor keeps the rhythm going and the sound
stays full and fat. Not just random stabs in between drags off a cigarette, play a bit here, pose a bit there, bend a string and grimace like youre giving birth. Ironic when you consider what a great job Wood did holding it down on his own with the Faces. I do recall an interview where Glyn Johns opined that Wood joining the Stones was a tragic squandering of potential and a demotion to comic foil/second bannana.
i think the best and earliest example (in stereo) of true weaving got to be I Got The Blues
Keith plays both of the weaving guitars on the album version, no?
wouldn't think so, classic sounds of both guitarists
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DandelionPowdermanQuote
kleermaker
In fact I've never chopped Ron's head off, neither have I offended others. Okay, there was some quarreling with behroez, but only shortly and no big deal. We're great friend again, actually. Behroez, please confirm!!!
To get back to the topic: my questions were neutral. And they had little or nothing to do with Ron Wood or Mick Taylor.
Sometimes discussions are heated and sharp, but normally they also cool off spontaneously. But I guess I'll better be away for a while. I've written too many posts anyway, these last days.
So see ya!
Personally, I like your posts and ideas, Kleermaker. But regarding the forum policy, I´m just giving you advice what would happen it one stretch it too far here with the Taylor/Wood debate...
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kleermakerQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
kleermaker
In fact I've never chopped Ron's head off, neither have I offended others. Okay, there was some quarreling with behroez, but only shortly and no big deal. We're great friend again, actually. Behroez, please confirm!!!
To get back to the topic: my questions were neutral. And they had little or nothing to do with Ron Wood or Mick Taylor.
Sometimes discussions are heated and sharp, but normally they also cool off spontaneously. But I guess I'll better be away for a while. I've written too many posts anyway, these last days.
So see ya!
Personally, I like your posts and ideas, Kleermaker. But regarding the forum policy, I´m just giving you advice what would happen it one stretch it too far here with the Taylor/Wood debate...
Why the need to especially warning me, Dandelion? I've read the rules and I think I haven't broken them. But if you think I did, please let me know concretely which post of mine broke which rule. Here are the rules (the only official ones that have to be followed): [www.iorr.org]. My posts are easy to find.
Do you really think I broke the rules while no one else did, since I begun to post here? I would like to know that, provided you base your opinion soundly. Thanks in advance.
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winjoe
You made a reference to Mozart. Nothing says Rock and Roll like Mozart.
How the hell is what Taylor does throughout the '73 tour interesting? It sounds like he's bored; like he wishes he was playing in a different band....
If only there was proof of this. If only he made some decision in the mid-seventies that.....
Oh, yeah. That's right...he quit the greatest rock and roll band in the world because he was bored.
Taylor was great, but at the end, he didn't fit.
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winjoe
Suffice to say we disagree.
And, suffice to say that your request that I "listen" to Satisfaction from 1969 is laughably ignorant and, frankly, a bit @#$%&-ish.
And, this will apparently come as a shock to you, but people other than yourself have gone to these...what did you call them...Operas? Some of us have experienced quite a few of them.
What any of them have to do with Gimme Shelter remains to be heard.
Also, do you compare all music you like to Mozart, or is it the other way around?
And the "Wolfgang's Vaults" bit?..Pricelessly condescending!!
Maybe, just maybe, there are people out there who know every bit as much about music as you do, (some, even more!!) and maybe, just maybe, they have different opinions than you do!
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skipstone
Well, I think the point is that Woody fits in with Keith. Keith's mugging and posing and his silliness. At least Ronnie is funny.
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kleermaker
Btw Mozart rocks. Go to one of his great operas and you'll experience it.
"Wolfgang's vaults". No coincidence, the name of Wolfgang.