Quote
straycat58

Quote
straycat58
one question about HTW from Gimme shelter.

Could you please tell me at which point of the track is the cut between 28 second show and 27 ?

I think it's exactly at the end of "divorcee in New York City" but I'm not sure.

Sorry, I'm here again with my enquiry which remained unreplied.

Can somebody help me to detect HTW splitting point? This mix from Gimme shelter corresponds to the original versions or is overdubbed?

Yes I think you are right with the end of "divorcee in New York City". You can even hear the slightly different sound.

Quote
vancouver
sorry .nov 28 1st,(gimme shelter soundtrack)

So we've got two dates for the dialogue. Sounds good. I've edited JJF from the 27th appropriately to disguise the mixed dialogue.

Quote
Right Shoe Shuffle
[www.sendspace.com]

Carol - performed on the 28/11 1st show without the vocal overdub.

Thanks to Vancouver for help with uploading the file

Sympathy For The Devil 28/11 1st show - We know about the edit but does it have a vocal overdub? After listening to the audience recordings of the the other two MSG performances I'm inclined to think it has. IMO the only two perfomances on Ya Ya's without a vocal overdub appear to be LIV and MR

I've been very much looking into building a compilation of the original soundboard recordings from MSG 1969 during the pandemic so I found this thread if it's okay to rehash it from the dead. So far this is the information I have about the sources from Get Yer Ya Yas Out:

Jumpin' Jack Flash (MSG 11/27) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Carol (11/28, 1st Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Stray Cat Blues (Baltimore 11/26 and/or MSG 11/28, 1st Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Love In Vain (Baltimore 11/26)
Midnight Rambler (MSG, 11/28, 2nd Show)
Sympathy For The Devil (MSG 11/28, 1st Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Live With Me (MSG 11/28, 2nd Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Little Queenie (MSG 11/28, 1st Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Honky Tonk Women (MSG 11/27 & 11/28, 2nd Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]
Street Fighting Man (MSG 11/28, 1st Show) [Vocals Overdubbed]

A few questions. Does anyone know for sure the source of Stray Cat Blues? Listening to the Baltimore version, it sounds very similar to the one on GYYYO but not quite at the same time. It's a shame there's no complete bootleg of the MSG 11/28, 1st Show to know for sure. Second, there was talk here of the VHS copy of GIMME SHELTER having bonus footage of the version of Carol from GYYYO with its original vocals. Is anyone able to post that here?

Much appreciated!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-10-19 06:58 by JordyLicks96.

I found this on a DVD-R when I was recently doing a clean up. It was originally posted here via a youtube link about 10 years ago. Interesting because it is the Yas Ya's version without the vocal overdub. The audio of this appeared a year ago as part of the Abcko 2020 dump.

[we.tl]

Speaking of which, wouldn't all the Abkco dump recordings of a year ago be considered basically "soundboard" or close enough? Are the old ones somehow superior or just give different audio tracks? I mean except for the early show on the 28th which was incomplete in the dump case.


plexi

Wow, dear Stones friends.

So happy to see the rollingstones.net research still referenced.

Vocals were the first and most obvious comparison against audience and movie recordings.

Musically, I looked for unique 'sound markers' like 'feedback' or 'throwback' as MJ would say.

Note-by-note and bar-by-bar analysis is really a challenge.

Don't forget the ABKCO RS69TRAX releases on youtube New Year's eve 2019.

They are soundboards and sensational when properly filtered.

I will finish the ABCKO copyright analysis this year!

Yours,

Chris M.
chrism42@aol.com

www.rollingstonesnet.com

Quote
timbernardis
Speaking of which, wouldn't all the Abkco dump recordings of a year ago be considered basically "soundboard" or close enough? Are the old ones somehow superior or just give different audio tracks? I mean except for the early show on the 28th which was incomplete in the dump case.


plexi

Although they sound good, I don't think they are soundboard in the true sense of the meaning. I think it is the audience microphone they put near the mixing desk to record the ambiance and audience.

Mathijs

Quote
JordyLicks96
A few questions. Does anyone know for sure the source of Stray Cat Blues? Listening to the Baltimore version, it sounds very similar to the one on GYYYO but not quite at the same time. It's a shame there's no complete bootleg of the MSG 11/28, 1st Show to know for sure.
Much appreciated!!

Stray Cat is from MSG 28, 1st, by deduction. It certainly isn't Baltimore as the Taylor solo's are different and the drumming is different. The sound of the drums, especially the snare, is exactly the same as all the MSG recordings. MSG sounds different to any other 1969 show, mainly in the drums and snare. This is audible in both the audience and official recordings.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
timbernardis
Speaking of which, wouldn't all the Abkco dump recordings of a year ago be considered basically "soundboard" or close enough? Are the old ones somehow superior or just give different audio tracks? I mean except for the early show on the 28th which was incomplete in the dump case.


plexi

Although they sound good, I don't think they are soundboard in the true sense of the meaning. I think it is the audience microphone they put near the mixing desk to record the ambiance and audience.

Mathijs

OK. You're right. But as I said, close enough.

plexi

But being close to the soundboard is not at all the same as being connected through the soundboard.

jb

i meant that the recordings on the albums are close enough to soundboard, wasnt referring to the physical location/proximity to the soundboard recording unit itself.


plexi

Quote
jbwelda
But being close to the soundboard is not at all the same as being connected through the soundboard.

jb

What it is is a professionally recorded audience recording.

Mathijs

Why were there no live recordings from the 1970 European tour dumped this year.And is it possible they will dump live shows from 1971-1973 in the next few years

Quote
Taylor1
Why were there no live recordings from the 1970 European tour dumped this year.And is it possible they will dump live shows from 1971-1973 in the next few years

This sounds like a good question to pose to Ronnie Schneider. Didn't he manage the European tour? GYYYO was their last contractual LP obligation to Decca, so tapes from the 1970 tour would never have ended up in the hands of their manager, Allen Klein. Thus ABKCO wouldn't have any recordings to use for a 2020 copyright dump.
(Is this correct reasoning? I'm so confused...)

Are the Stones likely to follow the suit of Dylan and begin yearly copyright dumps of material that they own exclusively?

Who among us can say? Who knows where the road will lead us? Where will it lead us from here?

<GYYYO was their last contractual LP obligation to Decca, so tapes from the 1970 tour would never have ended up in the hands of their manager, Allen Klein. Thus ABKCO wouldn't have any recordings to use for a 2020 copyright dump>

Sounds plausible.

Gold Stones era.

***
I'm just a Bad Boy Boogie

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
JordyLicks96
A few questions. Does anyone know for sure the source of Stray Cat Blues? Listening to the Baltimore version, it sounds very similar to the one on GYYYO but not quite at the same time. It's a shame there's no complete bootleg of the MSG 11/28, 1st Show to know for sure.
Much appreciated!!

Stray Cat is from MSG 28, 1st, by deduction. It certainly isn't Baltimore as the Taylor solo's are different and the drumming is different. The sound of the drums, especially the snare, is exactly the same as all the MSG recordings. MSG sounds different to any other 1969 show, mainly in the drums and snare. This is audible in both the audience and official recordings.

Mathijs

Hmmm interesting, thanks for the info. Gonna need to listen to both again. Is there any bootleg in circulation of Stray Cat from the MSG 28, 1st show?

Quote
JordyLicks96

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
JordyLicks96
A few questions. Does anyone know for sure the source of Stray Cat Blues? Listening to the Baltimore version, it sounds very similar to the one on GYYYO but not quite at the same time. It's a shame there's no complete bootleg of the MSG 11/28, 1st Show to know for sure.
Much appreciated!!

Stray Cat is from MSG 28, 1st, by deduction. It certainly isn't Baltimore as the Taylor solo's are different and the drumming is different. The sound of the drums, especially the snare, is exactly the same as all the MSG recordings. MSG sounds different to any other 1969 show, mainly in the drums and snare. This is audible in both the audience and official recordings.

Mathijs

Hmmm interesting, thanks for the info. Gonna need to listen to both again. Is there any bootleg in circulation of Stray Cat from the MSG 28, 1st show?

Has this been posted?

January - February : London, Olympic Sound Studios and Trident Studios.
Mixing and overdubbing for the upcoming album Get Yer Ya Ya's Out.
Producers: Glyn Johns & The Rolling Stones. Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Jumping Jack Flash (MJ/KR) -New York City, 27.11.69
- Carol (Chuck Berry) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Stray Cat Blues (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Love In Vain (Robert Johnson) -Baltimore, 26.11.69
- Midnight Rambler (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 2nd show
- Sympathy For The Devil (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Live With Me (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 2nd show
- Little Queenie (Chuck Berry) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Honky Tonk Women (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Street Fighting Man (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show or
Baltimore 26.11.69
[www.nzentgraf.de]

This is fantastic - it's not the GIMME SHELTER one!!!!!!

Quote
GasLightStreet

Quote
JordyLicks96

Quote
Mathijs

Quote
JordyLicks96
A few questions. Does anyone know for sure the source of Stray Cat Blues? Listening to the Baltimore version, it sounds very similar to the one on GYYYO but not quite at the same time. It's a shame there's no complete bootleg of the MSG 11/28, 1st Show to know for sure.
Much appreciated!!

Stray Cat is from MSG 28, 1st, by deduction. It certainly isn't Baltimore as the Taylor solo's are different and the drumming is different. The sound of the drums, especially the snare, is exactly the same as all the MSG recordings. MSG sounds different to any other 1969 show, mainly in the drums and snare. This is audible in both the audience and official recordings.

Mathijs

Hmmm interesting, thanks for the info. Gonna need to listen to both again. Is there any bootleg in circulation of Stray Cat from the MSG 28, 1st show?

Has this been posted?

January - February : London, Olympic Sound Studios and Trident Studios.
Mixing and overdubbing for the upcoming album Get Yer Ya Ya's Out.
Producers: Glyn Johns & The Rolling Stones. Sound engineer: Glyn Johns.
- Jumping Jack Flash (MJ/KR) -New York City, 27.11.69
- Carol (Chuck Berry) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Stray Cat Blues (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Love In Vain (Robert Johnson) -Baltimore, 26.11.69
- Midnight Rambler (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 2nd show
- Sympathy For The Devil (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Live With Me (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 2nd show
- Little Queenie (Chuck Berry) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Honky Tonk Women (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show
- Street Fighting Man (MJ/KR) -New York City, 28.11.69, 1st show or
Baltimore 26.11.69
[www.nzentgraf.de]

Street fighting Man saying it could be Baltimore too but I feel like it's definitely from MSG.

Quote
GasLightStreet
This is fantastic - it's not the GIMME SHELTER one!!!!!!

Itis.And look at the quality of the film and the audio.So superior to Ladies and Gentlemen 1972.There the sound is muddled .The picture is blurry and the camera work is horrible.Everything is focuses on Jagger

Quote
GasLightStreet
This is fantastic - it's not the GIMME SHELTER one!!!!!!

This is from Ya-Yas. Great indeed.

Bill plays great on this.

Keith is using different guitar voicings

The Abcko dump included just the first three tracks from the 28th November 1969, 1st show. Two of these tracks: Carol and Sympathy for the Devil were used on Ya Yas with vocal overdubs replacing the original vocals. We know that a guitar overdub by Keith was later done on Carol but there hasn’t been much comment here about the overdubs on Sympathy for the Devil (probably the key track on the album along with MR. To what extent were overdubs used on this track? I will be interested in Chris M’s conclusions on this when he updated his webpage.

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
GasLightStreet
This is fantastic - it's not the GIMME SHELTER one!!!!!!

This is from Ya-Yas. Great indeed.

I guess I haven't listened to that one enough. I just knew the audio wasn't from GIMME SHELTER, which is the better one, but it's easy to think that they were all awesome that year.

Quote
Right Shoe Shuffle
The Abcko dump included just the first three tracks from the 28th November 1969, 1st show. Two of these tracks: Carol and Sympathy for the Devil were used on Ya Yas with vocal overdubs replacing the original vocals. We know that a guitar overdub by Keith was later done on Carol but there hasn’t been much comment here about the overdubs on Sympathy for the Devil (probably the key track on the album along with MR. To what extent were overdubs used on this track? I will be interested in Chris M’s conclusions on this when he updated his webpage.

Are you 100% sure about guitar overdubs? I thought, at least to my knowledge, there were no guitar overdubs that ended up making it onto the finished album.

Maybe it is a matter of personal opinion but the rhythm guitar track in the left speaker is pure Keith IMO(who also plays lead guitar on Carol and other Chuck Berry tunes. He later replaced the Taylor rhythm guitar track with a studio overdub.

Quote
JordyLicks96

Quote
Right Shoe Shuffle
The Abcko dump included just the first three tracks from the 28th November 1969, 1st show. Two of these tracks: Carol and Sympathy for the Devil were used on Ya Yas with vocal overdubs replacing the original vocals. We know that a guitar overdub by Keith was later done on Carol but there hasn’t been much comment here about the overdubs on Sympathy for the Devil (probably the key track on the album along with MR. To what extent were overdubs used on this track? I will be interested in Chris M’s conclusions on this when he updated his webpage.

Are you 100% sure about guitar overdubs? I thought, at least to my knowledge, there were no guitar overdubs that ended up making it onto the finished album.

You hear Keith playing the rhythm on Carol (and Little Queenie) while he's playing his solos