keith plays the solo on the studio-version.
...but live it is always played by mick taylor or later ronnie wood.
this is maybe the only stones song where keith doesn´t play the guitar solo live, he played in the studio...

what do u think?
is there a live gig/tour/recording where keith played the guitar solo?

<< this is maybe the only stones song where keith doesn´t play the guitar solo live, he played in the studio...>>



Dead Flowers
Gimme Shelter

I'm sure there are others...

Interesting that you mention Dead Flowers 71Tele. I had thought that it was Keith playing it for the longest time but the phrasing is atypical of him and there are passages where it sounds like Mick.

Anyway, regarding Fool's question, Love In Vain is certainly one, Happy another where Keith played the solo in the studio but relinquished the solo to Mick and later Ronnie during live shows. Not sure why he decided to that. There are alot of questions I would ask given the opportunity regarding arrangements and who played what. As to Keith having played Tumbling Dice live I know of no recording or instance where this was the case. Anyone else?

It had to do mainly with him going into a heavy Open G rhythm phase starting in '72 and Mick T. at the same time took over straight lead. It's very difficult to switch because the scale for lead guitar is harder to play in Open G and he also didn't want to disrupt the rhythm part, so many songs wound up with Taylor playing the solo.

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71Tele
It had to do mainly with him going into a heavy Open G rhythm phase starting in '72 and Mick T. at the same time took over straight lead. It's very difficult to switch because the scale for lead guitar is harder to play in Open G and he also didn't want to disrupt the rhythm part, so many songs wound up with Taylor playing the solo.

That was certainly true by 1973 but Keith was playing alot of standard tuning stuff during the '72 tour but mostly open G by '73.

I always assumed it was Taylor on lead on the studio Dead Flowers because I couldn't imagine Keith play a solo that lifeless. Sort of sounds like Mick T going out of his comfort zone and playing countryish licks without much feel.

<< Sort of sounds like Mick T going out of his comfort zone and playing countryish licks without much feel. >>.

WHAT on SF did Mick Taylor play without much feel?? That's Keith on the solo.

Then again, Timeisonourside has it Taylor, so maybe you're right after all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-05 03:38 by 71Tele.

Oh, I agree that Mick T was wonderful on Sticky Fingers. Sway, Knocking, Moonlight, etc are incredible.

The Dead Flowers solo noodles and it's hard to believe that Keith, who played such beautiful country licks on Wild Horses, would have played it.

In Guitar Player in 1980, Taylor says he played the studio solo on "Dead Flowers". The phrasing indicates it is Taylor. He certainly more freely and fluidly improvised the live solos of this song, but I'm inclined to believe it is Taylor playing this solo in the studio.

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milliondollarsad
I always assumed it was Taylor on lead on the studio Dead Flowers because I couldn't imagine Keith play a solo that lifeless. Sort of sounds like Mick T going out of his comfort zone and playing countryish licks without much feel.

Interesting the disparity of opinions regarding the same thing. I love that guitar solo and I can't think of any Mick Taylor solos that are lifeless. Still, to each their own. Like I said, I had thought for the longest time that Kieth played the solo on Dead Flowers but now I'm not so sure. This is the only guitar solo in the Stones canon where it is not so obvious to me who is the soloist. Glimmertwins50, are you referring the Guitar Player interview Mick did after the release of his first solo album, the one with Tommy Tedesco on the cover? I have it somewhere so I'll have to dig it up...

I love threads like this because I learn a lot.

I'm less technical than you guys, and I play only a little guitar, but I am a musician and I've been listening to these songs with a keen ear for a while, so will add my insight and knowledge, tho less formalized knowledge than some of yours.

I'd thought the majority of noodles and fills on Dead Flowers is Mick Taylor, with others being Keith (tending toward lower strings and less predictable rhythms). I'm thinking now DF's solo is Keith because of its unevenness. I may be wrong, but it sounds like whoever it is doesn't have a wholly fleshed out vision for the solo going in, starts out strong in one direction, starts meandering in another, he follows it there, does some stuff there, then comes home -- and that seems more like Keith's MO than Mick T to me.

thanks for the great convos~
swiss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-05 09:50 by swiss.

To me, the DF solo is heaven on earth. If it's Richards, it's the best he's done in my view. I'll believe Taylor and Slash though, who think it's Taylor. Also, I don't see or hear the meander. If anything, it coheres from the repeated 5th-6th-1st pattern that opens many of the lead's phrases, and, like Taylor's prototypical leads, it tells a story, with a beginning, middle, climax and end.

As far as Taylor playing leads live that Richards played in the studio, also:

JJF
Stray Cat Blues
YCAGWYW
Don't Lie to Me

How about adding a solo where there wasn't one before?

Satisfaction
It's All Over Now
I'm Free
SFM





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-05 09:38 by Smokey.

I'm listening to the studio version of Dead Flowers right now, and it's more difficult than usual to tell who's playing which guitar. They're both quite sparse and there's none of the typical creamy distorted vibrato of Taylor's, and none of Keith's choppy Chuck Berry bends (common in most of his solos). It sounds like both guitars were done live or with very few takes. Both sides contain a few sudden stops which suggest that it was all pretty spontaneous.

Anyway, I'm quite positive that the guitar in the right channel, which also does the solo, is Mick Taylor. It's a *little* more fluid, a little more technical and a little more varied, in the style of Taylor. The sound is also more nasal, which suggests Mick. The guitar on the left -- presumably Keith -- is a little more simple and repetitive (but no less beautiful).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-12-06 13:22 by LieB.

[/quote] It sounds like both guitars were done live or with very few takes. Both sides contain few sudden stops which suggest that it was all pretty spontaneous.

it probably was ,

during the chorus keith plays the licks over the words , mick taylor plays the licks between the sentences then follow them to the solo and that means it is played by mick. btw the solo played at the benefit concert in73 is my favourite

ChrisM,

Yes, the interview that I mentioned is in the February 1980 Guitar Player with Tedesco on the cover. If memory serves me, I think Taylor says that he used a Gibson 335 on the "Dead Flowers" solo.

We've had this discussion about the "Dead Flowers" solo before. It's Taylor. Keith plays some fills, but Taylor plays the solo. Taylor himself says so.

I don't really know why some people think it's Keith. To me, just judging by the style of play, I'm 100% sure it's Taylor.

Great topic FooltoCry. The way in which the Stones almost always play their own studio parts live is something I've noticed as well.

There have been many discussions here before about the Dead Flowers solo and we've pretty much concluded it was Taylor.

Smokey also brings up the fact that Taylor added a lot of solos live that didn't exist on record. Just listen to Brussels Affair...it's full of them. This is something that I suppose a lot of Taylor fans love about him, but this is actually one the things I didn't like about his virtuoso guitar playing. For example, on Gimme Shelter from Brussels I just find his added fills and solos to be obtrusive and totally unnecessary--they just don't really fit the "feel" of GS. Always felt Ronnie's contributions fit that song better (case and point: GS from Paradiso 1995). Don't get me wrong I absolutely love Taylor and his solos on TD, YCAGWYW, and SFM are just about the greatest things the Stones have done.

Even MORE interesting is that Ronnie still plays the parts that Brian played on old studio versions. It's rare for Ronnie to open a song on guitar before Keith, but he does so on The Last Time, where the riff was originally played by Brian. Same goes for It's All Over Now.

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Tumblin_Dice_07
We've had this discussion about the "Dead Flowers" solo before. It's Taylor. Keith plays some fills, but Taylor plays the solo. Taylor himself says so.

I don't really know why some people think it's Keith. To me, just judging by the style of play, I'm 100% sure it's Taylor.

maybe because the tone sounds like keith's, not taylor's?

Mick Taylor Plays the lead but all through the song Keith & Mick are trading leads. There are about four guitars going on there

Charlie

<< Mick Taylor Plays the lead but all through the song Keith & Mick are trading leads. There are about four guitars going on there >>

You are correct, sir. Also Mick J. is on acoustic.

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71Tele
It had to do mainly with him going into a heavy Open G rhythm phase starting in '72 and Mick T. at the same time took over straight lead. It's very difficult to switch because the scale for lead guitar is harder to play in Open G and he also didn't want to disrupt the rhythm part, so many songs wound up with Taylor playing the solo.

That was certainly true by 1973 but Keith was playing alot of standard tuning stuff during the '72 tour but mostly open G by '73.

I've read at least a couple of interviews where Keith said the only bad thing about playing in open tunings like he does is you can't solo like you can in standard tuning. Like 71Tele says, the scales are completely different, and if I'm not mistaken, Keith always played Happy in an open tuning which explains why he wouldn't do the solo live on that particular song. As for the others I can't really say, but I think being a junkie, along with Taylor's style of playing, may have made him lay back a bit and focus more on rhythm.

DFs has a very simple and easy guitar solo played in the first position of the D major scale at the 7th fret. I used to play it with my band, and i started to play with 40 years old (it mihht be not so dificult then). The filler licks are little more complex, they alternate minor and major pentatonic scales in 2 or 3 scale positions. IMO

Rythm guitar on TD is openG; the solo is standard tuning

The lick at the last two bars of the DF solo is much to fast and cleanly executed to be Keith. This is a 100% Taylor solo.

Mathijs

The solo on "If I Could Stood you up" on the album Talk is Cheap played my Mick Taylor does not sound like Mick Taylor, but it is.

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cc

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Tumblin_Dice_07
We've had this discussion about the "Dead Flowers" solo before. It's Taylor. Keith plays some fills, but Taylor plays the solo. Taylor himself says so.

I don't really know why some people think it's Keith. To me, just judging by the style of play, I'm 100% sure it's Taylor.

maybe because the tone sounds like keith's, not taylor's?

It's not so different than the tone that Taylor gets on other songs on the album.

The tone of the guitar is fairly ambiguous, something that was common on Stones records at the time. On Sticky Fingers and Exile On Mainstreet, the mix is so dense that it's hard to tell much different in the guitar tone's of Richards and Taylor. It's the same with the Layla album. It's often hard to tell which guitar part is played by Duane Allman and which parts are played by Eric Clapton. Allman used to say in interviews that he played the Gibson and Clapton played the Strat on the album, two guitars with different pickups and very different tones. But the mix is so dense on that album that it's hard to discern which is which just by the tone of the guitar. It's pretty easy to figure out if you're familiar with both guitarists particular styles, but if you're not, it would be pretty tough.

The solo on "If I Could Stood you up" on the album Talk is Cheap played my Mick Taylor does not sound like Mick Taylor, but it is" Doesn't Keith and Mick both play a solo on that track?

Tumblin', you observations on the mixes on Sticky Fingers, Exile and Layla are interesting. From my own standpoint though, it has always been easy to distinguish Keith from Mick in so far as guitar goes except in the case of 'Dead Flowers' which to my ears had elements of both Keith and Mick's playing styles. The same goes for the Laya. As you mentioned, the differences in style between Duane and Eric were fairly well pronounced but so were the guitar tones. The out of phase sound that Eric gets with the Strat is unmistakable, as the mid range tone with Duane's Les Paul.

<The lick at the last two bars of the DF solo is much to fast and cleanly executed to be Keith. This is a 100% Taylor solo.>

It sure is Mick Taylor, but actually, Keith does some similar bends in the same tempo on Star Star (solo ending) Sounds very Taylor, though. Guess he picks up the best pieces here and there

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ChrisM


Tumblin', you observations on the mixes on Sticky Fingers, Exile and Layla are interesting. From my own standpoint though, it has always been easy to distinguish Keith from Mick in so far as guitar goes except in the case of 'Dead Flowers' which to my ears had elements of both Keith and Mick's playing styles. The same goes for the Laya. As you mentioned, the differences in style between Duane and Eric were fairly well pronounced but so were the guitar tones. The out of phase sound that Eric gets with the Strat is unmistakable, as the mid range tone with Duane's Les Paul.

We (musicians) may be able to tell one guitarist from the other, whether by tone or style, but I don't think the average listener can.

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I saw this the other day and it reminded me of something interesting on the '73 tour. I believe the solo on Star Star is played by both Taylor and Richards at different shows. Hamburg, Keith all the way:

Brussels, sounds like Keith as well:

But check out Newcastle, sounds like Taylor:

Especially since Jagger says "alright, boy", which he seemed to call Taylor.

There are only 3 guitars on the song, Mick's acoustic in the center, Keith's on the left and Taylor on the right...during the verses Keith plays the fills and Taylor arpegiates the chords, then on the choruses Taylor plays very similar fills and Keith does those "pedal steel-like" bends which he does during Mick's solo too. Mick said he used a Gibson ES-345.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-09 20:00 by stones78.