HB, I thought you were a photographer, you're suppose to have good eyes. There's good eye doctors in surf city..... Anyway, since ASTROLOGY was the big rage in 1969 - anybody hear Jim Morrison's classic "Astrology Rap" at the end of ROAD HOUSE BLUES on the spoken word album? - and JAGGER is a LEO if you have a brain you will easily surmise that it's a LEO symbol and not an OMEGA symbol, like I said, IF you have a brain..... (if not, go with Omega....)

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HelterSkelter
It's the LEO SIGN kids, what's wrong with you? Omega doesn't even look close to that...... do I have to straighten EVERYTHING out around here?!?!?!? I think so, I think I do.....

Wow ,Helter Skelter , you're so self assured....
I don't share your point of view.

Here is Omega :



Here is Leo sign :



And now Jagger's T-shirt :



It could be both of them ,no ?



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

No mon Amour. Pardon sil vous plait, Leo - Oui. Omega - Non Un Steak Beranaise pour Helter a Lyon avec SwayStones. Merci Beaucoup, Sons Grande (you should at least get a laugh out of my French...but, I tried)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-16 12:33 by HelterSkelter.

I can't get that Marlo Thomas image out of my head anymore, LOL. That is perfect.

Thanks Beercan for clearing all that up.
But DR Pete, I THINK I know which famous photo you are referring to; isn't that from the Europe tour in 70?

The photo is in Russell's new book page 150 or so. Jagger (sitting,smiling, holding a drink and looking at Charlie) Charlie (standing lookind bemused) and Kieth (sitting tuning the steel guitar). I assume about to play Prodigal son/You gotta Move. A GREAT pic which I've seen published many times before

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HelterSkelter
No mon Amour. Pardon sil vous plait, Leo - Oui. Omega - Non Un Steak Beranaise pour Helter a Lyon avec SwayStones. Merci Beaucoup, Sons Grande (you should at least get a laugh out of my French...but, I tried)

Hey Helter !
I did understand you perfectly apart from "Sons grande " ...what did you want to say ? That you're a big boy (un grand garçon ) ?

Concerning the " steak à la béarnaise " , you're welcome anytime !

Concerning the T-shirt , I 've always heard people refering to a " omega emblazoned on black shirt " ,that's why I am so doubtful....



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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HelterSkelter
No mon Amour. Pardon sil vous plait, Leo - Oui. Omega - Non Un Steak Beranaise pour Helter a Lyon avec SwayStones. Merci Beaucoup, Sons Grande (you should at least get a laugh out of my French...but, I tried)

....misinformation in any language is misinformation.

1. any Greek worth his salt knows absolutely, unequivocally, that the emblem is an OMEGA.

2. a passage from a Robert Christgau review of their 1969 performance:

"Jagger didn't so much sing Muddy Waters' "I Just Want to Make Love to You" as get .... With an omega emblazoned on his black shirt and an Uncle Sam top hat"

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Rip This

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HelterSkelter
No mon Amour. Pardon sil vous plait, Leo - Oui. Omega - Non Un Steak Beranaise pour Helter a Lyon avec SwayStones. Merci Beaucoup, Sons Grande (you should at least get a laugh out of my French...but, I tried)

....misinformation in any language is misinformation.

1. any Greek worth his salt knows absolutely, unequivocally, that the emblem is an OMEGA.

2. a passage from a Robert Christgau review of their 1969 performance:

"Jagger didn't so much sing Muddy Waters' "I Just Want to Make Love to You" as get .... With an omega emblazoned on his black shirt and an Uncle Sam top hat"

Yeah ,I took too the quote "omega emblazoned on his black shirt " in my last post from Mr Christgau review .That's why I am so doubtful about the "leo " sign ....

And here also :

Jagger has been dressing for the stage for 40 years. The band's first manager, Andrew Oldham, was a "clothes fanatic", Jagger said. "He loved clothes, and that's what managers did then - they dressed up the lads. One of his greatest pleasures was to take you to the tailor. We'd have our street clothes made and our stage clothes, and that was that."

In the '60s, Jagger wore suits and thin ties (briefly), then mod shirts and corduroy jackets, then scarves and devilish frills, and the Uncle Sam hat and the black "omega" T-shirt at Altamont, California. Later, the eyes of the fans were directed more towards the Jagger crotch, which was clothed in embroidered, unzipped Ossie Clark jumpsuits and tight-laced knee breeches during Jagger's sporty, gay-quarterback phase.

[www.theage.com.au]

It might be me, but I have always thought it is a woman's hairdo, much like many 60's British models used to wear. That's why the sign looks tilted, like the woman is looking towards you to her left. When did Warhol started his Monroe paintings? I always thought it was inspired by the art pop scene. Didn't one of the Flintstone women had hair like this?

Mathijs

>>the Uncle Sam hat and the black "omega" T-shirt at Altamont <<

... the writer was just checking to see if we're paying attention? :E

Helter is right about the Leo aspect.

Mick Jagger is a Leo and he wore a white shirt, as well as a black one, with what many Leos and othersin those astrologically-conscious times considered to be "the sign for Leo." In fact,some of them referred to it as "the Lion's tail." It is also true that Mick several times referred to it as "the infinity emblem."

"What's your sign?" was a major question young people asked each other in the Sixties.

Words like "doubtful" and "self-assured" in this thread are somewhat annoying. Some of us were actually there in the late Sixties, early Seventies and we have suprisingly accurate memories.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-10-17 00:48 by stonesrule.

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with sssoul
the Uncle Sam hat and the black "omega" T-shirt at Altamont (from an article written by ROBERT CHRISTGAU)

Amazing, Christgau is SO accurate a writer that he has Jagger dressed ALL WRONG at Altamont - Yo, Robert, it was ONLY ON FILM, not hard to miss. (Golden/Yellow pants and his silky half Red-Orange/half black rarely worn 1969 shirt (was worn on Ed Sullivan). As far as the LEO SIGN on Jagger's Shirts here's the Leo sign the way I remember it - no "o". [www.amazon.com] then put Jewelry in the "Search" section and then type in "LEO SYMBOL ITALIAN CHARMS BRACELET LINK". This is the symbol the way I remember it in the 60's.(and VERY CLOSE to Mick's shirts)

SwayStone - Sons Grande - "should/will be great" - kinda missed on that one !! Glad the rest was accurate. Oh how I miss France/Paris.......

Nice to see so many responses regarding the Leo / Omega debate, but I'm a bit disappointed that no posts of the " I attended such & such 1969 concert
& Jagger wore the so & so outfit" variety which I'd hoped for have appeared.

Apart from Dr Pete's post that "the puffy shirt" was worn at the 1st Oakland show. Thanks for that.
Is there anyone out there than can verify this?.

But back to the Leo / Omega debate. I wholeheartedly still go for the Leo symbol.

Helter Skelter, thetbeercan & stonesrule are dead on the money, it may um, er, maybe, perhaps resemble an Omega symbol but it matches spot on
with the Leo sign that Helter Skelter states is featured on the Amazon jewellery site & is re produced here.
A perfect match for the debated symbol on the front of Jaggers T-Shirt.

In Sway Stones post (with the graphics, thanks) the Leo sign more than resembles the design on Jagger's T shirt far more than the Omega sign.

And as for Christagau's review of Jaggers Altamont stage clothes (just for you skipstone ;-) ), any Stones fan worth his or her's salt knows Jagger
wore his half orange, half black ensemble with the bat wing sleeves, teamed with smashing gold pants tucked into knee high boots.
So I assume if Christagau got the Altamont stage clothes wrong then he didn't know his Leo symbol from his Omega's either.

And since posting my original post I myself have performed a bit of amateur investigation.
First port of call was to my sisters abode, she's married to a fella of Greek heritage, so I took myself off to her place yesterday armed with
some photos of the Jagger T - Shirt to see what his thoughts where regarding the Leo / Omega debate. Being of the Greek persuasion I
was sure he'd know what an Omega synbol looked like. He had no idea.

But by a fluke some of my brother in laws kin were there for a feed, so I showed them the photos & asked "Is this the Greek symbol for Omega?'
The showing of these photos produced answers of no, no, no & no again. The older of the Greeks assembled around the kitchen table even drew
an Omega symbol for me. Explaining the tails on the symbol on Jaggers T-Shirt were wrong & not level as in the Omega sign.

The next step I embarked on was to ask friends, relatives, workmates & other assorted folks if they were Leo's.
If they replied yes I whipped the photos out, asking "Do you know or have any idea what this symbol is ?"
60% said it was the sign for Leo, their sun sign, some didn't have the foggiest but thanked me for cluing them in on what their sun sign looked like.
Seems a good proportion of Leo's are under the impression that their sun sign symbol is a lion & nothing but a lion!

Last call on my Leo / Omega investigation was to venture up to the main drag & drop into the local new age / tarot / physic readings available / buy your crystal's here / under one roof collective. Producing the photos for the last time, once again the replies I heard were "It's the Leo symbol", "Leo " & funny enough this comment "You're a Leo & you don't recognise your own sign?". I'm a Pisces & yes I do, it's two fish pulling in opposite directions but what's this?
Not once did I hear the word Omega.

So I am one hundred percent positive, thoroughly convinced, reassured, have no doubt that the symbol on Micks T shirt is of his sun sign Leo.

My last comment is if Jagger knew it was an Omega sign he'd been sporting on his chest most of November 1969 why then when asked about it did he think the interviewer was referring to Omega watches? So do I deduce that even he himself didn't think it was an Omega symbol.

Cheers,
ER

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Rockman
any chicago pics in that book, rockman

Howdy 3DTeafoe long time no speak....Hope ya doin' fine

Gimmie a day or so and see what I can find for you ....

hey rockman, i've been standing in the shadows, but doing well, keeping busy with photos. the nov.16 matinee show in chicago was very special to me as it was my first stones concert. never been the same since.
wishing you well down under.

..anyway you slice it, dice it or write it, it's still an Omega.

Rip This comments

>1. any Greek worth his salt knows absolutely, unequivocally, that the emblem is an OMEGA.

Not to the Greeks I showed the symbol to, and I'd like to think they all had their full salt content ;-)


>2. a passage from a Robert Christgau review of their 1969 performance:

"Jagger didn't so much sing Muddy Waters' "I Just Want to Make Love to You" as get ...With an omega emblazoned on his black shirt and an Uncle Sam top hat"

But Christgau also mentioned he wore the outfit described above at Altamont. And as every Stones fan worth his or her salt knows this is incorrect! So your quote of "misinformation in any language is misinformation" can also be applied to Christigau's writings.

And as I wrote before, in the magazine dedicated to the 1969 US Tour entitled "The Rolling Stones Discover America" on page 22 Mick's costume is described as thus;
"Mick fiddles with his costume, too, sometimes in white, he most often wears black pants with silver buttons from waist to heel, a long crimson scarf, a studded belt and a black T-Shirt with the upside - down U glyph of Leo, his sun sign."

So even 40 years ago journalists were of both camps, one for the Leo sign & the other for Omega symbol.


2..anyway you slice it, dice it or write it, it's still an Omega.

To you maybe, but to all the folks I sliced it with, diced it with & wrote it with, not a single person said it was an Omega.

So as for me I'll plump for the Leo sign, firstly going for all the positive replies I received in the Leo sun sign favour.
Secondly that the Leo symbol that HelterSkelter pointed out on the Amazon jewellery site is the exact image of what appears on Jaggers T Shirt, while the Omega symbol has a much weaker resemblance.

Cheers,
ER

...as a Greek, who reads and writes Greek, it's an Omega.

I think it's Tina Turner's Wig.

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Britney
I think it's Tina Turner's Wig.

...that's what I settled on first too...[www.wigs.com]

Per a review of the Oakland, California show by Greil Marcus in Rolling Stone, No.48, "Jagger was dressed right out of Sympathy for the Devil....Black,tight pants with silver studs up the side; a black blouse with a Leo sign on it. He wore an Uncle Sam hat out of Ginsberg and a red scarf that might have been ten feet long."

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HelterSkelter

SwayStone - Sons Grande - "should/will be great" - kinda missed on that one !! Glad the rest was accurate. Oh how I miss France/Paris.......

Well ,you know , I miss New York & L.A & the States too....it has been such a long time since I went there....
I thought of a five day trip to spend the New Year's day in NYC....



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

I wonder why Mickette didn't wear the bat wing thang in Europe 1970? & who designed it?

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HEILOOBAAS
I wonder why Mickette didn't wear the bat wing thang in Europe 1970? & who designed it?

Did Ossie Clarck made outfits for Mick other than the famous Jagger's jumpsuits and jackets ?



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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HEILOOBAAS
I wonder why Mickette didn't wear the bat wing thang in Europe 1970? & who designed it?

Good question. You can't say Jagger ditched this "costume" because of the tragedy as he wore it during the famous Gimme Shelter (live vocal) performance a week later..

He didn't travel with a lavish wardrobe of choices then.

ok...i've had a day to view Ethan Russells Let It Bleed book...
There is a picture in his book from Oakland with Jagger wearing his white "puffy shirt" !
so we now have 2 shows with Jagger wearing the puffy shirt : Fort Collins & Oakland. What show from Oakland? I'm thinking the 1st...anyone?

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stonesrule
He didn't travel with a lavish wardrobe of choices then.

There's even a bit about that in Stanly Booth's book. Halfway on the tour Sam Cutler urges Mick to take a warm shower to feel better, and to wash his socks as they stink after two weeks of touring. Some one here on the board even pointed out that on many '69 pics Jagger's fingernails are very long and dirty.

Mathijs

I concur with the LEO symbol as MJ is a Leo, previously stated and obvious to the whole world, and so am I...also kids, this was still in the Age of Aquarius days(As HelterSkelter points out astrology being the rage).., say 10 days or so before Altamont which ended the whole thing..and I was at The MSG show 2 nites(sorry bout that Mathijs) and red scarf it was tho in some of the video it does look pink..
have fun
RB

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RockinBud
I concur with the LEO symbol as MJ is a Leo, previously stated and obvious to the whole world, and so am I...also kids, this was still in the Age of Aquarius days(As HelterSkelter points out astrology being the rage).., say 10 days or so before Altamont which ended the whole thing..and I was at The MSG show 2 nites(sorry bout that Mathijs) and red scarf it was tho in some of the video it does look pink..
have fun
RB

No problem man, it's only that I was expecting you to state you have the original Leo sign shirt worn by Jagger in '69.

Mathijs

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Palace Revolution 2000
I can't get that Marlo Thomas image out of my head anymore, LOL. That is perfect.

Thanks Beercan for clearing all that up.
But DR Pete, I THINK I know which famous photo you are referring to; isn't that from the Europe tour in 70?

SAME HERE! I'm crackin op!