I just have this vision of skipstone sitting around with his band at rehearsal, drinking some lame beer, talking, and one guy goes "oh dude, DUDE! you know what album totally sucks?? Pet Sounds!" and the other guys are all "oh dude, duuuuuuuuude! i knoooooooooow! what a lame album! like, totally lame" and then they all highfive each other and kick into a cover of Bad Medicine for the 10th time that night.

So, in essence, McCartney took something that was noise and made it actually interesting.

I see izzy is projecting.

What the hell is Bad Medicine?

Quote
skipstone
So, in essence, McCartney took something that was noise and made it actually interesting.

I see izzy is projecting.

It may indeed be "noise" to your own untrained ears (no surprise there!), but obviously not to musical legends such as McCartney, Townshend and many others.

...you no doubt place your high-minded opinions above theirs!

The deal is that McCartney for some incredible reason liked that album. I wonder what brother John thought?

2 1 2 0

From what I have read in interviews John liked it as well.

My wife thinks Buddy Holly sucks. I almost fired her. I told her she would be fired if she disliked the Stones.

Anyway what I am trying to say we all have our own opinions and they are all valid. Pet sounds does bend my head and some days I'll want to listen cleverly crafted pop music such as the Beach Boys and then some days I'll listen to the Drive By Truckers.

To say Pet Sounds is not an influence on the Beatles is a mistake but however I think the Beatles would have got there anyway.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

"Bad Medicine" = a Bon Jovi song.

Trust me, izzy (and everyone else), the music skipstone plays is most excellent:

[www.graysoncapps.com]

Would it be more confounding if I said Exile is crap? This is hilarious.

I don't see how there can be any debate over whether The Beatles were influenced by Pet Sounds when Sir Paul himself has said so ad nauseum.

Skipper, instead of implying that there isn't an influence because you (and those you "sit" with) don't hear it, Maybe put on the head phones and give Pet Sounds another spin (if you can stand it, its only a little over 30 mins), then go back and listen to Here, There & Everywhere, the bass lines on Sgt. Pepper, the arrangement & tone of She's Leaving Home, The arrangement (bass harmonica, etc) of Fool On The Hill, Hello/Goodbye, etc. If you keep an open mind about it you will be enlightened.

Ross

Ah, thank you Ross - finally some kind of explanation that directly alludes to the how of the what on what that influenced The Beatles.

Quote
skipstone
Ah, thank you Ross - finally some kind of explanation that directly alludes to the how of the what on what that influenced The Beatles.

...would you like us to explain for you, which albums those tracks are on?

The Beatles tracks? No, got that covered. Go ahead and list 'em if you want to though. I asked my dad about Pet Sounds and his response was No idea.

i'm another one of the millions whose reaction to Pet Sounds is a simple shrug of the shoulders

i believe the current word for such a reaction is 'meh'

I will now think of it as Meh Sounds, sums it up.

Bark
Meow
Tweet

we all have our meh's...for me it's springsteen and u2, among those deified by others...

one man's meh is another's messiah...or something

I just listen it for the 5 time I think, the only song or sound that remindes of the Beatles is at the end of Caroline No (the silend and then the sounds of an oncoming train and dogs barking).

Pet Sound not my cup of tea........................

__________________________

My answer to Pet Sounds is the same as to the early Beatles long players a few days ago: the singles are great but the rest makes you wonder that they have the same composer... So, what McCartney actually has learned from Pet Sounds are not the sounds themselves but to disguise lame songs with then never heard of sounds.

One Of My favorites from Pet Sounds:

Quote
NICOS
I just listen it for the 5 time I think, the only song or sound that remindes of the Beatles is at the end of Caroline No (the silend and then the sounds of an oncoming train and dogs barking).

Pet Sound not my cup of tea........................

Nice of you to remind us all once again that you don't like Pet Sounds!

...now let's talk about Dutch music.

Quote

...now let's talk about Dutch music.

sure! Shocking Blue. Great band.

Quote
boogie69
The deal with Pet Sounds is this. Outside of Wouldn't It Be Nice, Caroline No, Sloop John B, and God Only Knows, most people don't get it because it was/is such a radical departure from the what made the Beach Boys so popular. Even the other members besides Brian Wilson didn't get it and thought "WTF is Brian thinking, he's f-ucking with the formula and is going to ruin us". Which is why Sloop John B was included, to appease the others and try for a hit (which it was, it hit #3). The album went gold, if I'm not mistaken, but was not as well received as previous efforts. Up to Pet Sounds, most of the BB's music was in the traditional I-IV-V, verse, chorus, verse pop song structure. But Brian Wilson had tired of that, and felt the need to try for something more profound than the simpler music the BB's were known for, and their average fan just did not get Pet Sounds. But the more hip listeners did, raved about it, and this started to establish its rep among music fans who had begun to pride themselves as being more discerning, or "hip", in their tastes. This type of fan looked for more than just the quick thrill that most pop and rock n' roll was known for back then. They wanted and appreciated music with deeper sounds and meanings. A lot of artists back then, such as the Beatles-primarily McCartney in the case of Pet Sounds-were of this mindset and helped to establish this trend, and the the maturing of rock/pop in general. This of course coincided with the cultural explosions of the mid to late 60's, and a new type of rock music fan and performer was born. Pet Sounds was a touchstone of this phenomenon, as was Rubber Soul, Revolver, Sgt. Peppers, and many other albums of that time period. At first, this was a legitimate, sincere, and authentic trend, in which certain releases started to gain attention based on their various artistic merits, such as more advanced song structures, lyrics, production, etc. However, as time went on and this way of approaching music was passed on to the following generations, it became less and less a matter of the personal choices based on legitimate merits, and more and more a matter of what you are "supposed" to like if you are a more hip, intelligent music lover. It became less about something that was good because of the time it was created in and how it spoke to people, and more about people having to accept it and like it because of its reputation. Pet Sounds is the epitome of this way of thinking. I happen to love the record, but I can understand why many don't, and I think this "You have to like Pet Sounds, Brian Wilson is a genius and it's a masterpiece" mentality is not only a load of force-fed bullshit, it takes away from the record's greatness. Brian Wilson is a genius, and Pet Sounds is a masterpiece, and if you know his story then you understand why. But most people don't know his story and don't understand why. Couple that with the fact that it is so different from what the Beach Boys had done previously and you get A LOT of people saying "What the hell is up with Pet Sounds, I just don't get it". And rightly so.

Fantastic, boogieman. Perfectly put.

Pet Sounds holds a very special place in my heart and in my music collection - I consider it a minor miracle.

No other record quite matches its heartbreaking sense of loss of innocence as well as gratitude for the moments of love we are graced with. From the opening notes of "God Only Knows" to the absolutely heartrending coda, "Caroline, No", the melodies sweep to and fro and the musical landscape is one gorgeous vista after another...one is taken on a journey...all the record asks is to be approached with an open, unguarded heart. The profound sense of emotional vulnerability, fleeting ecstasies, and deep melancholy make it a perfect autumn record.

When it was released it felt as if the Beach Boys were growing up and leaving all the wonderful and foolish things of their youth in the past...moving on to new truths and different adventures. It was scary and exciting for their fans. It even frightened some of the band members. Brian Wilson's artistic progression was that stunning. Alas, that fear and Brian's dissolution into near-catatonia stopped this amazing progression in its tracks and the Beach Boys would soon lose any relevance (to the times, as it were).

Part of Pet Sound's beauty to me is the resonant sadness that this progression (and the sure-to-follow masterpiece SMILE) never really took place...and their place at the forefront of popular music was lost in the haze...

For those who don't 'get' Pet Sounds...that's OK. But those who do hold this music very dear and close to their hearts...it holds sublime meaning.

Turd said:

For those who don't 'get' Pet Sounds...that's OK. But those who do hold this music very dear and close to their hearts...it holds sublime meaning.



That about sums it up for me.

Quote
@#$%&

Quote

...now let's talk about Dutch music.

sure! Shocking Blue. Great band.

...the best "Dutch" music of all time:

Quote
Elmo Lewis
Turd said:

For those who don't 'get' Pet Sounds...that's OK. But those who do hold this music very dear and close to their hearts...it holds sublime meaning.



That about sums it up for me.

Yeah Elmo, that is well put.

so overrated

atimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-brian-wilson8-2009oct08,0,2518188.story

latimes.com

Brian Wilson to finish some George Gershwin songs

Wilson plans to finish and record at least two songs on an album of Gershwin music that could be released next year.

By Randy Lewis

October 8, 2009


In a surprise union of two quintessentially American composers from different eras, one the 1960s mastermind of "Good Vibrations," the other the Jazz Age creator of "Rhapsody in Blue," former Beach Boy Brian Wilson has been authorized by the estate of George Gershwin to complete unfinished songs Gershwin left behind when he died in 1937.

He plans to finish and record at least two such pieces on an album of Gershwin music he hopes to release next year.

The Gershwin-Wilson project may strike some as an odd coupling: one New York musician famous for sophisticated 1920s and '30s pop songs including " 'S Wonderful" and "Someone to Watch Over Me" as well as such expansive, classically minded compositions as "Rhapsody"; the other the driving force behind Southern California beach culture hits such as "Surfin' U.S.A.," "I Get Around" and "California Girls."

But their career paths and evolution of their artistry have common threads, noted people involved with the project and some independent scholars, and that gives the proposed collaboration logic.

Todd Gershwin, George's great-nephew and a trustee of the George Gershwin family trusts, said, "George for his time was a visionary. He certainly crossed genres and musical lines, tried things that hadn't been done before and Brian Wilson has done exactly the same thing."

For his part, Wilson, 67, described himself Tuesday as "thrilled to death."

"I'm proud to be able to do it," he said in an interview. "Hopefully I'll be able to do them justice."

Todd Gershwin said a collection of several dozen song fragments, ranging from "a few bars to some almost finished songs and everything in between" had been sitting virtually untouched for more than seven decades. He and other trustees began reaching out in the last year or two to find contemporary artists who might be interested in completing those musical bits and pieces.

Wilson, who says "Rhapsody in Blue" is his earliest musical memory, said the pieces he's working with are very likely to remain as instrumentals, and that they could easily wind up as three-minute pop songs. But he's also holding open the possibility of expanding them to more substantive pieces.

Wilson said many of them aren't easy to evaluate.

"I can't decipher the verse from the chorus from the bridge," he said, "so I'm going to try to insert some new music into them. I might even write some music for an introduction."

The Gershwin project grew out of a proposal to Wilson from Walt Disney Records for a two-album contract.

"I'm a massive Brian Wilson fan," label president David Agnew said. "I'd always wanted to do something with him, and the Gershwin angle was something I had always thought about. In so many interviews he has mentioned Gershwin as a big influence, and if you listen to his music, that influence is obvious."

Meanwhile, the Gershwin estate and Warner/Chappell Music, the Gershwin publisher, had been considering what to do with the many song fragments in their archive. A pianist working from manuscripts left by Gershwin recorded the music at the behest of the estate, according to Brad Rosenberger, senior vice president of catalog development and marketing for Warner/Chappell.

"When we did this, nobody had any idea that an artist like Brian Wilson was even thinking about doing something like this," Rosenberger said.

Todd Gershwin said Wilson is the first to move ahead, but some uncompleted songs also may be used in a Gershwin tribute album that veteran engineer and producer Phil Ramone is putting together with a dozen artists for release in 2010.

Gershwin, who collaborated on most of his hit songs with his lyricist brother, Ira, stretched music of the day far beyond the compact pop song of Tin Pan Alley to more ambitious compositions incorporating elements of jazz and the classics, including "Rhapsody," "An American in Paris" and the opera "Porgy and Bess." He died of a brain tumor in Los Angeles at age 38 while working on a movie musical.

Wilson was one of the prime forces behind the expansion of pop music's boundaries in the mid-'60s, taking the Beach Boys well beyond the frothy songs about surf, cars and girls. That culminated in the group's 1966 album "Pet Sounds" and its planned follow-up, "Smile." But "Smile" was shelved because of dissension within the band and lack of record company support, contributing to a psychological breakdown Wilson suffered in 1967. In 1999, he started on a career renaissance that led to the belated completion of "Smile" in 2004.

" 'Smile' is 'Rhapsody in Blue' circa 2004," Rosenberger said. "It's very experimental, very rich and very melodic and really pushed popular music."

Chris Sampson, associate dean of USC's Thornton School of Music, said a Gershwin-Wilson collaboration is not as far-fetched as it may seem, despite the vastly different musical landscape of the two eras.

"Where they both made their mark was extending the form," he said. "George Gershwin was the only composer of his time to make a mark with the popular style of the time and then successfully cross over to quote-unquote serious music by extending the form beyond the basic [pop song] structure, getting into operatic styles and things of that sort.

"Brian Wilson," Sampson added, "redefined the pop song form . . . . through his orchestrations that took music in an entirely new direction. They're coming from two very different musical styles to end up with what I presume will be something new. That's the exciting interaction I see in this."

Wilson joins some illustrious company in the scope of the Gershwin project. When Mozart died at age 35 in 1791, a consortium of his contemporaries worked to fill in the incomplete portions of his Requiem. J.R.R. Tolkien's son commissioned writer Guy Gavriel Kay to complete the novel "The Silmarillion" that his father hadn't finished when he died.

But even in such unusual cases it's been exceedingly rare that the person finishing the uncompleted work has been as prominent as the artist who left the work behind.

For many of those involved with the project, the prospect of one day seeing songs credited to "George Gershwin-Brian Wilson" borders on the enticingly surreal. "For me personally," Rosenberger said, "it's a weird dream come true."

randy.lewis@latimes.com

Copyright © 2009, The Los Angeles Tim

Wow!

Thanks, Loog. Great news! Definitely something to look forward to!

Ross