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NICOS
? What do you like Rootsman

Well, they´ve done a few more, haven´t they?...

The ones I mention are the tracks I like the least of the released studio recordings.
That doesn´t mean I never listen to them - I´m hooked for life by the Stones!

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Rev. Robert W.

The Stones' Spinal Tap moment (a great line, by the way) was "I Go Wild" and the bottom half of A Bigger Bang. So embarrassing.

A great line indeed! I think the first time I lost muy confidence on the 'judgement' of the Stones regarding their own released music was VOODOO LOUNGE, and particularly the songs like "You Got Me Rocking" and "I Go Wild" that I think are really musically and lyrically and performancewise cheap shots. The Stones trying to play according to some myth how the Stones or some other rough rock band should sound like, and end up sounding totally lost touch with their own vital music ("Indian Girl is goddamn vital, and while listening to it, one can almost see the middle finger attitude the band still had at the time). But especially in "I Go Wild" the band is sounding like learning from a text book for school children what "rock band" should sound like.

I think teh problem with VOODOO LOUNGE, partly BRIDGES TO BABYLON, and all over A BIGGER BANG is that the band has mastered the music they play a long ago, and they don't have anything - or a will - to add anymore, and end up copying themselves - and the copies are never so vital as their originals. The danger of gathering some 'Spinal Tap moments" is always present... when a group of very healhy and respected English gentlemen are trying to sound like the young, raw and dangerous rock and roll out-laws they once were...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-19 13:10 by Doxa.

I think much of the problem Doxa is talking about comes from the lyrics. This bottom half of ABB that is mentioned a couple of times would be a lot stronger if the words had any kind of substance; or yearning and truth. I have to be honest: even "Laugh I Nearly Died" sounds hollow to me because Jagger's words really don't dig very deep. He does those kind of songs in his sleep (Wandering Spirit, Feel On Baby). I don't buy it that Jagger 'feels' any of those sentiments from the song. In a way "Oh No Not You" rings more true, as lame as THOSE lyrics are.
IMO Keith is at least trying to take this to a different level. But again - Infamy is one of the alltime worst Stonestunes, and all the Keith ballads are getting a little tired. But on the 2 Keith solo albums I feel like Keith totally expanded on the Stones message.

I don't understand in Doxa's post - at who are the cheap shots directed at from I Go Wild" and "Rockin"?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-19 16:15 by Palace Revolution 2000.

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Palace Revolution 2000

I don't understand in Doxa's post - at who are the cheap shots directed from I Go Wild" and "Rockin"?

Oh sorry, my mistake. I used a wrong phrase. I tried to say that the songs themselves are 'cheap' efforts in their way of trying blindly copy a certain given form. They are so obvious, so safe and sure that they sound almost ridiculous in their tendency to under-estimate the intelligence of the listener.... Shit, I don't have the suitable English phrase in my mind now...

- Doxa

Look What Cat Dragged In
Dangerous Beauty
Biggest Mistake
Stealing my heart
Suck on the jugular
Always Suffering
Dirty Work is fantastic album even with Back To zero.

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Palace Revolution 2000
I think much of the problem Doxa is talking about comes from the lyrics.

i have to agree.

theory: rich rock star with nothing to prove...showing minimal effort...merely trying to write
catchy sing-alongs for live shows.

obviously, the best lyrics are culled from personal experiences etc...
lyrics that tell a story in a clever, interesting and sometimes abstract way are the best (imo).
it seems like MJ's lyrics were best when he was still hungry to prove himself and living
a less glitzy lifestyle. Sad to say but...the '60s-'70s groupies, drugs & rebellion lifestyle created
some great music. These days it's award shows, movie premieres, exerciseand a healthy lunch with the grandchildren.
the results...shit (relatively speaking).

I think it was in BEING MICK
when i saw him writing lyrics in the backseat of his limo on the way to Lenny Kravitz's house...that I lost
a lot of respect for his lyric writing efforts. And on top of that...he had a rhyming dictionary!
I also remember him demonstrating how he rhymed LOVE IS STRONG. Ugh!!

Who knows...maybe this was the same method he used when composing Beggars Banquet, Let It Bleed & Exile....I don't know.
BUT..I DOUBT IT!

Even MJ must lack confidence in his recent writings. Thus...the WARHORSE tours.

Who kidnapped Mick Jagger and where are they keeping him??

These days when he performs LIVE WITH ME, DEAD FLOWERS or any of the dozens of great songs from the '60s-'70s....
I see him as an imposter....like someone doing Karaoke. Just doesn't seem authentic.

The same guy that wrote SYmpathy for the Devil wrote LET'S WORK?!?!??!?!??!?!?!!?

A scary thought.......what if......
when MIck finished writing SAD SAD SAD....he's said to himself "damn, that's good!".


IORR............but I like it!

"songs you wished the stones had never recorded/released"

for me it's 90% of their post-1983 output that should have never been recorded/released...

Most of the post post 81 repertoire is groovy and enjoyable (except DW), the newer songs are criticised too harsh here. Yet I have to agree that most Stoneslyrics are not poetry, unlike Dylan's lyrics they are useless without the music. Rough Justice makes me smile though.

Harlem Shuffle , it is a damn shit , how the stones got down to that level , thank god they made lots of good stuff after dirty work.

ROCKMAN

I think Dirty Work has it's place. It is the album that is hated by the Stoners. If DW didn't exist, it'd be another one. Plus, it is the album that really does capture the abysmal state of Stones relations and affairs of the era. So actually - it's good. In retro Jagger probably needed to get "Fight" and "Had It With You" out of his system. Keith and Ron needed to throw down a few albums worth of loud aggressive guitar.
Personally I can always handle music if it is honest on any level at all.

So for me it is Voodoo Lounge and ABB and SW that have the songs I like the least on them. B2B is pretty good. But "Sparks will fly", "Rockin", Rough Justice, Oh No Not You",Blinded by Love and Rock & Hard Place are the ones I don't go for.

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sweet neo con


The same guy that wrote SYmpathy for the Devil wrote LET'S WORK?!?!??!?!??!?!?!!?
.

It happens.The same guy who wrote 'A Hard rain's a Gonna Fall' and 'Desolation Row' also wrote 'Wiggle Wiggle'.

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Gazza

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sweet neo con


The same guy that wrote SYmpathy for the Devil wrote LET'S WORK?!?!??!?!??!?!?!!?
.

It happens.The same guy who wrote 'A Hard rain's a Gonna Fall' and 'Desolation Row' also wrote 'Wiggle Wiggle'.

Which begs the bigger question.........are they all a bunch of cheeseballs that happened to hit it big/get lucky...and
their adoring fans having created this ENORMOUS MYTH around them??? Maybe Mick did think that
LET'S WORK was as good as GIMME SHELTER. Maybe Dylan thought there was something of value iin WIGGLE WIGGLE.
Maybe they all just write whatever...then throw against the wall to see what sticks. Everything else (their mystique & god-like status)
is projected onto them by their fans.

??





and why did Frank Sinatra ever record the RUBBER TREE PLANT song?


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-19 16:40 by sweet neo con.

Brand New Car is the pits !

Might as well get juiced!

Dear, I did not know "Wiggle Wiggle" and I must say that I am impressed!

There seams to be alot of winning over lyrics. Who cares what they say. It doesn't matter. Guitar intros, hooks, drum parts, melody lines is 99 percent of the songs. If you took Stairway To heaven and changed the lyrics it will always be the same song. I never listen to lyrics. It doesn't matter what is said as long as the song musically is good. Lyrics never mad me cry or happy. But the intro to Can't You Hear Me Knockin'is an adrenaline rush. Do you really thing the words to All Down The Line matter? No they don't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-19 19:15 by More Hot Rocks.

lyrics don't matter? that's a new one...

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StonesTod
lyrics don't matter? that's a new one...

Ask any guitarist

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More Hot Rocks

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StonesTod
lyrics don't matter? that's a new one...

Ask any guitarist

ok - i'll ask dylan...

All the @#$%& "Their Satanic Majesties Request" stuff ...

I'll go by album:
A Bigger Bang - Sweet Neo-Con
B2B - nothing awful
VL - nothing awful
SW - nothing awful
DW - Fight, Hold Back, Winning Ugly and Back to Zero
Undercover - Feel on Baby
Tattoo You - Nothing awful
ER - Emotional Rescue


Other than those I can't think of any embarrasing stuff

Between a rock and a hard place.

I go Wild

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Rockman
Imagine Robert Johnson covering Start Me Up .... Now wouldn't that be a thing

Indeed, t'would make a dead man . . . sing.

As for songs I wish they'd never released, I'll go with Blinded by Rainbows and Blinded by Love.
I'd have been happier if they'd just have released one blinded by something song, . . . maybe Blinded by Rainbows on the Streets of Love Where I can Almost Hear You Sigh. Just get it out of your system, Mick, and move on.

Okay, rant over.


On the internet nobody knows
you're Mick Jagger



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-20 00:31 by camper88.

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More Hot Rocks
There seams to be alot of winning over lyrics. Who cares what they say. It doesn't matter. ...
.If you took Stairway To heaven and changed the lyrics it will always be the same song.

re: whining about lyrics

when lyrics are bad enough it can definitely ruin a song.

Brand New Car is a perfect example. Great tune ruined by the lame lyrics. Green Eggs and Ham is better!
I'm not asking for anything special or inspired...just something that doesn't detract from
what potentially could have been a great song.

To use your example....insert the lyrics to ROW ROW ROW YOUR BOAT to the Stairway To heaven tune....
it makes a difference.


IORR............but I like it!

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sweet neo con

To use your example....insert the lyrics to ROW ROW ROW YOUR BOAT to the Stairway To heaven tune....
it makes a difference.

Interesting that you should say that. Me and a few friends debated this very thing when we were in university.

To test the theory we went out drinking at an open mike bar where one of my friends who's an accomplished guitar player once played and sang all of Stairway to Heaven by singing "Henry James" over and over in place of the lyrics to the song.

I thought it was hilarious, as did the party I was with, but half the crowd there
took only about sixty seconds before they nearly booed him off the stage only to be drowned out by the other half of the crowd who sang along with him and drowned out the booing (sane) folks. Everyone came together to sing the last half of the song.

I guess it really helps when you've drank a lot of beer and everyone knows the words.

Everybody's missing the point. You can't take Stairway and insert row row.. That's ludicrous. But you can change "There's a lady who's sure..." to some like There's a meadow of gold and I hear her call to me"... or whatever Let's sat that was the way it was originally recorded. That's how we know Stairway to be. It will always be great becasue of the melody and guitar structure.
What if we took Sweet Neocon and maybe the words to Sympathy. The song will always be weak because musically and structually it doesn't stand up.
Change Shine A light from "Saw you stretched out in room..." to "Saw you move from the dark of the night... or again whatever it will always be Shine A Light as we know it but change the chord structure or key of a riff and it is no longer that song. that's the point I'm making. Do you guys actually go to see bands for lyrics or the music. If you do have fun a your local Karaoke bar. A great part of talk on IORR deals with Keith's and everyone guitars, amps, style, chord changes, solos, scales and on and on. I don't care what anybody sings about. It doesn't matter when you first hear a song. It's all about hooks and melodys. Peace guys!

SOMEBODY is missing the point....

Yes, the dude who wrote Sympathy For The Devil wrote Let's Work.

And Sweet Neo Con, Streets Of Love, Blinded By Rainbows, New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Always Suffering, Gunface, Winning Ugly, Rock And A Hard Place and Rain Fall Down among a few others.

Absolutely utterly astounding innit? Terrible.

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More Hot Rocks
There seams to be alot of winning over lyrics. Who cares what they say. It doesn't matter. Guitar intros, hooks, drum parts, melody lines is 99 percent of the songs. If you took Stairway To heaven and changed the lyrics it will always be the same song. I never listen to lyrics. It doesn't matter what is said as long as the song musically is good. Lyrics never mad me cry or happy. But the intro to Can't You Hear Me Knockin'is an adrenaline rush. Do you really thing the words to All Down The Line matter? No they don't.

I'm in part fully agree with you, because as a good frenchie, i don't understand all the meanings of some songs, and i don't care of it, only the music makes me rockin' and rollin'.
But in a second hand, when i listen to a French Artist who sing awful lyrics,
i could understand that some people here doesn't like songs like :

-Where the boys go
-Brand new car

which seems to have horribles lyrics, but are pretty good tunes for me because the music is fuc#@# good!

So it's very difficult IMO.

For "Let's work" it's easier>< the question is "Who here could be truly says that he had listened to this song more that ...3 times

HMN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-09-20 14:24 by Honestman.