I agree with T&A that you can enjoy both Ron and MT and as you say -two different styles. BOTH at their prime would have been great to hear. I actually prefer the Stones MT era better but that may have something to do with the "coming of age" thing on my part. At the same time I was digging the Faces mainly cause of Woody's playing. In Dallas at the 05 show though, I thought Ron butchered the solo in "Cant always Get what You Want". But after thinking about it the sound guy cranked him WAY up so maybe it was a case of just being too loud over the other instruments?

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scottkeef
I agree with T&A that you can enjoy both Ron and MT and as you say -two different styles. BOTH at their prime would have been great to hear. I actually prefer the Stones MT era better but that may have something to do with the "coming of age" thing on my part. At the same time I was digging the Faces mainly cause of Woody's playing. In Dallas at the 05 show though, I thought Ron butchered the solo in "Cant always Get what You Want". But after thinking about it the sound guy cranked him WAY up so maybe it was a case of just being too loud over the other instruments?

no kidding. i had some similar reactions on the the ABB tour. it was the first tour in a long time where you could really hear ronnie in the mix on a regular basis. one of those "be careful what you wish for" kinda things.

"but c'mon IT'S ONLY ROCK N' ROLL!!!!"f you're going to over analyze every phrase of a solo instead of rock to the groove they're laying down, then you're missing the whole point of the Stones' music!

Groove?

if you get to over-analyze every post, we get to over-analyze ever solo. only fair.

Ok. Let's start with the Dorian mode licks???
"What shell we do with the drunken sailor."

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Amsterdamned
Ok. Let's start with the Dorian mode licks???
"What shell we do with the drunken sailor."

are you another andrea dorian survivor?

Oh no,but I love to see Ron's girlfriend titanic tits

One of the more robust and fun threads on here. I love the diversity of opinion, even from the a-holes that disagree with me.

: )

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JJHMick

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T&A

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Winning Ugly VXII
It was played in concert a couple of times in 1971 (according to a few people in the band > Wyman,plus a couple others) and then not again in public until 2002. It was rehearsed other times,in the early '70's and mid to late '90's for examples.

Just because they may have rehearsed it in '72,that doesn't mean there is proof that they wanted it to be a part of the 1972 shows.They rehearsed IORR for the 1978 tour but didn't play it again until 1989 if you don't count Live Aid and stuff like that from the mid '80's. We all know that they could have played IORR in '78 but,they did not want to despite rehearsing it.That's just one example.

i still have doubts about the veracity of the live '71 reports. wyman's memory isn't fail-proof....he also contends they did johnny b. goode...and there's not other verifiable proof of that....

I have "An Unauthorized Biography" of David Dalton who accompanied them on the 1971 Britain tour. There are complete setlists and variations in the report and how the songs were received: f.e. Nobody in the audience could make something of Wild Horses or: Satisfaction always fooling the audience (That's why this version of that "warhorse" is my favourite one!). Lots of interesting insights even suggesting to do Peggy Sue as an encore; btw encores: never done since club days or the like as mentioned.
There is no word of CYHMK and as it's also not listed in the usual sources, I doubt that it was played, no matter what Bill remembers.
Regarding 1972 there is no word of the song but several songs of Exile dropped quite soon after tour start: Ventilator Blues, Loving Cup otr Torn And Frayed.

As far as I remember,it was not just Wyman who made the claim. Bobbby Keys or maybe Jim Price plus I think it was Richards. I don't remember exactly who said it was played but,I know that it was not just Wyman. There was a thread on this a couple of years back with linked quotes from people who were a part of the 1971 tour.

From the first night of the 1972 tour:

3rd June: Vancouver, Canada, Pacific National Exhibition Forum
(Brown Sugar/Rocks Off/Gimme Shelter/Bitch/Tumbling Dice/Happy/
Honky Tonk Women/Loving Cup/Torn And Frayed/Sweet Virginia/You
Can't Always Get What You Want/Ventilator Blues/Midnight Rambler/
All Down The Line/Bye Bye Johnny/Rip This Joint/Jumping Jack Flash/
Street Fighting Man)

nzentgraf.de

No CYHMK or Johnny B. Goode BUT there was Ventilator and Bye Bye Johnny...

They played it in 1792, didn't they?

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JJHMick
I have "An Unauthorized Biography" of David Dalton who accompanied them on the 1971 Britain tour. There are complete setlists and variations in the report and how the songs were received: f.e. Nobody in the audience could make something of Wild Horses or: Satisfaction always fooling the audience (That's why this version of that "warhorse" is my favourite one!). Lots of interesting insights even suggesting to do Peggy Sue as an encore; btw encores: never done since club days or the like as mentioned.
There is no word of CYHMK and as it's also not listed in the usual sources, I doubt that it was played, no matter what Bill remembers.
Regarding 1972 there is no word of the song but several songs of Exile dropped quite soon after tour start: Ventilator Blues, Loving Cup otr Torn And Frayed.

Are there 'complete setlists' from every 1971 show in that book ? If so, could you please post them. Thanks

I havent seen complete setlists of every show from 1971 published anywhere, so I doubt that Dalton published them in his book.

However, when the song was played it was played at the very start of the tour - Newcastle and possibly one other show.

I've read separate interviews or quotes by three of the musicians who played on that tour (Keith, Bill and Bobby Keys) who have all mentioned the song being attempted in concert, but that it didnt work out. It just seems implausible to me that three of them could make the same mistake.

I have the same book( which stops at the end of 1971) purchased when it was released and while a great wealth of info, it hardly lists ANY setlists for any show.

There's a piece called 'Gawddammit Charlie, Rock'n'Roll is on the Road Agayn' written by Robert Greenfield and published in Rolling Stone, and it's included in 'Rolling Stones: An Unauthorized Biography in Words and Photographs' which Dalton edited.

It doesn't contain setlists for each show. However Greenfield summarizes what appears to be the first Newcastle show. Songs mentioned are: JJF, Live With Me, Dead Flowers, Stray Cat, LIV, Prodigal Son, Rambler, Bitch, Honky Tonk Women, Satisfaction, Queenie, BS and SFM

Wild Horses is mentioned, and from what I gather from the article, it seems like it was played in MAnchester.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-10 22:44 by Sohoe.

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Sohoe
<<but if it's the dreaded roseland version, as I suspect>>

The Youtube clip is the Four Flicks version.

You're right about the Roseland rendition, though. Pretty horrible.

I was at the Roseland show and have a decent audience boot and thought Ronnie played CYHMK pretty well that night. Ron certainly seemed to play it better at Roseland than the Four Flicks clip.

In fact, Ronnie got a big grin on his face and looked out at the audience in response to the applause he was getting during his CYHMK solo at Roseland. Maybe we were too drunk!

Was anyone else at Roseland or have you heard the boot? If yes, what do you think of Ronnie's solo on CYHMK?

Hey deadegad, I do actually quite like the Roseland show. A strong, concentrated effort carried by the four main members imo. She Smiled Sweetley got a great premiere. Strong rendition of HAnd Of Fate as well. I would have been more than pleased to have witnessed it firsthand, including a not very good CYHMK-guitarsolo.

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Sohoe
Hey deadegad, I do actually quite like the Roseland show. A strong, concentrated effort carried by the four main members imo. She Smiled Sweetley got a great premiere. Strong rendition of HAnd Of Fate as well. I would have been more than pleased to have witnessed it firsthand, including a not very good CYHMK-guitarsolo.

Hey Sohoe, which shows do you -- or anyone else reading this -- think Ronnie did a good job on the CYHMK solo?

I'll dig out those shows, if I have them, and listen.

Thanks!

I don't really know, deadegad. I'm not much of a completist when it comes to the post '81 stuff. I've only kept a total of app ten shows from the last two tours. Anyway, I remember the Aragon Ballroom version as being pretty good.

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Sohoe
I don't really know, deadegad. I'm not much of a completist when it comes to the post '81 stuff. I've only kept a total of app ten shows from the last two tours. Anyway, I remember the Aragon Ballroom version as being pretty good.

I've got that one. I'll give it a listen. Bono joined the band and sang IORR.

What I meant by "setlist" is that in Dalton's book all songs in the order they were played are mentioned and described and how they were received - he (to be precise, Robert Greenfield wrote it for the Rolling Stone) was accompanying the band on the tour.
The songs are those you can find on Nico Zentgrafs website. They didn't change the setlist during the whole tour except for dropping Wild Horses.
And, yes, he starts with the two Newcastle shows and mentions some further later in the tour. As Gazza states it is quite typical to try out new songs - especially in a "provincial" part of the country and see whether they work or not before keeping them in the set.
I guess they rehearsed CYHMK (and that's what the memory comes from) but didn't play it live.
One mentioned that there was already Midnight Rambler as an extended track and therefore no further spot for a long piece like CYHMK. That seems logical to me.
By Exile there was no place for a song of an earlier record that didn't stand the test: Besides the Exile new ones they played Bye Bye Johnny which they knew would always work.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-11 09:10 by JJHMick.

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GNAT
They played it in 1792, didn't they?

...in seventeen hundred and ninety-two.. columbus sailed the ocean blue.. the trip was hot the trip was fine ..the crew called out for Ballentine!!..whoo hoo!!

STONES JAM!! MICKEYS RULES!!! (burp) NADER IN 2016!!!!! GO GIANTS!!

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Gazza
I've read separate interviews or quotes by three of the musicians who played on that tour (Keith, Bill and Bobby Keys) who have all mentioned the song being attempted in concert, but that it didnt work out. It just seems implausible to me that three of them could make the same mistake.

not a big conspiracy theory guy, eh?

Here you go, the first and second shows of 1971 - unconfirmed, of course but I don't see any reason to wonder:

4th March: Newcastle, England, City Hall (1st show); unconfirmed set:
(Jumping Jack Flash/Live With Me/Dead Flowers/Stray Cat Blues/Love In Vain/
Wild Horses/Bitch/Honky Tonk Women/Satisfaction/Little Queenie/Brown
Sugar/Street Fighting Man)

710304B 4th March: Newcastle, England, City Hall (2nd show); unconfirmed set:
(Jumping Jack Flash/Live With Me/Dead Flowers/Stray Cat Blues/Love
In Vain/Wild Horses/Bitch/Honky Tonk Women/Satisfaction/Little
Queenie/Brown Sugar/Sympathy For The Devil/Let It Rock)

yeah - i tend to think the trio was referring to rehearsal attempts, too. we'll likely never know unless recordings surface...

...how can we live with this uncertainty? it's inhuman....

They didn't do CYHMK on that tour based on all of those posted set lists. They can hardly remember how to play SFM sometimes, how the hell are they gonna remember if they played one song in 1971? Which means that Keith's book is gonna be HILARIOUS!

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skipstone
Here you go, the first and second shows of 1971 - unconfirmed, of course but I don't see any reason to wonder:

4th March: Newcastle, England, City Hall (1st show); unconfirmed set:
(Jumping Jack Flash/Live With Me/Dead Flowers/Stray Cat Blues/Love In Vain/
Wild Horses/Bitch/Honky Tonk Women/Satisfaction/Little Queenie/Brown
Sugar/Street Fighting Man)

710304B 4th March: Newcastle, England, City Hall (2nd show); unconfirmed set:
(Jumping Jack Flash/Live With Me/Dead Flowers/Stray Cat Blues/Love
In Vain/Wild Horses/Bitch/Honky Tonk Women/Satisfaction/Little
Queenie/Brown Sugar/Sympathy For The Devil/Let It Rock)

Guesswork. There's only a couple of songs from one of those shows that ever circulated.

Good to know that both Newcastle shows (and more dates in 71) were recorded professionally, and are of no use anymore!

Curse you Garcia haters. And all ye who use the word "wankery" and "Taylor" in the same sentence. Or "noodling."

Peasants.

As someone who has been numerous times deeply disappointed in Ron Wood's onstage contributions throughout his career with the Stones, I must come to his defense on the CYHMK solo during the 2002-2003 Tour. I saw several shows and his solo was always a highlight.

The solo on the video shown in this thread is compelling and original...it takes the original Taylor version as the template and Ronnie then extrapolates, compresses, and alters the sound, thus giving it a very personal interpretation. Why indulge in mean-spirited criticism of his guitar playing on this song? Yes, he isn't Mick Taylor...not even Mick Taylor is Mick Taylor anymore...but what he contributes here certainly does not merit disdain. We have been given many opportunities to criticize Ronnie's musical contributions in the recent past...but this is not really one of them.

Re: Garcia and the Dead...saw them many times in my youth and Jerry was always masterful. The Dead were a band with a certain 'vibe' and if you weren't into that 'vibe' at that particular moment then it fell flat...but if you were in their sweet spot they were transcendent and Jerry was the Wizard...

(Check out "Europe '72" if you want to hear Garcia's Master Class in mellow guitar brilliance)

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2009-04-13 23:17 by Turd On The Run.

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Zack
Curse you Garcia haters. And all ye who use the word "wankery" and "Taylor" in the same sentence. Or "noodling."

Peasants.

I originated the 'wankery' remark, but didnt mention the 'T' word. Do I escape with half a curse, Zack?