Just thought I'd throw this out there.

You never know when something might shake loose.

Anyone have or know of tapes of the 3 & 4 June 1975 shows in San Antonio???

J

I was at the show on the 3rd. I have always been told there is no tape. Good try, though -- you never know when someone is gonna give it up. Maybe Freezer taped it.

No tape in circulation that I've ever heard of. These are a couple of gigs are a infamously poorly documented.

No tapes in circulation. The person who recorded those shows don't want to spread them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-29 08:20 by Erik_Snow.

texas fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was at the show on the 3rd. I have always been
> told there is no tape. Good try, though -- you
> never know when someone is gonna give it up.
> Maybe Freezer taped it.


Do you remember the show texas fan? there'd been rumours for decades that "Time Waits For No One" was played at one of those Antonio-shows. any guest musicians you migth recall?

Thanks
silkcut



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-11-29 10:19 by silkcut1978.

Silk, I was young...but no, I'm almost sure there was no Time Waits for No One, no Harvey Mandel and no Wayne Perkins..Still, there are things I just can't remember...Like, I remember Luxury clearly, but can't remember either way whether they played Dance Little Sister...Sorry, I wish my memory was better...

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No tapes in circulation. The person who recorded
> those shows don't want to spread them.


So they definately were taped?

Thanks for your info texas fan - I saw them in 1976 and for years I was sure they played Crazy Mama...then I got the tapes ;-)

Tumbling_Dice_07 - a few months ago Freezer mentioned in a thread on DimeADozen that he taped San Antonio as well (along with other shows from 1975 like San Francisco or Baton Rouge). He is a very "complicated" guy to say the least but after a few PMs he told me he'd trade for a Doors-shows he's been looking for decades. I did my best to get in touch with the taper of the Doors-gig as was prepared to pay big $$ for the tape he never gave away but by then the funny Freezer steped back and told me something like he "would never trade with somebody who's likely to pay such an amount for a tape". Still I wonder what's wrong with this guy.

It has also been said that he never gave away low-generations of his recordings - always making a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.... Can be true because apart from the fact that Baton Rouge and others are sounding very very good there's always big hiss on his recordings.

Btw - in another thread somebody asked for Dallas - it was recorded but the taper never copied it because he isn't satisfied with the quality....

silkcut

Hi Silkcut, yes I also emailed mr Freezer, and then found myself asking around for that Doors recording; but it seems to be an impossible task.
Maybe that's why he requested it ?

I wonder why he never circulated those San Antonio shows; not even in a "higher generation version". Maybe he wasn't satisfied with his recording ?
A complicated person indeed, but then again - nobody has any right to tell him what to do - or what to circulate, allthough most tapers don't see any point in taking their tapes with them in the grave.
32 years have allready passed....that should be plenty of time to reconsider one's stand; so I have big doubts if San Antonio will see the light of day....together with lower generation tapes of Baton Rouge 75 etc.

i wonder what doors recording he was after

Erik - did you receive my PM yesterday on Dime?
-
Sure it's up to him to circulate/not circulate his recordings but it's the way he handles the communication which incredible sick. Once I got in touch with him HE made the rules and they were like "never ASK anything, or I won't reply" and such likes. Personally I'd be more than happy to learn the setlists of both Antonio-gigs but he didn't even ignore my plea... what an a****le :-)

ghostrider - he was/is looking for the St.Louis-show of the Doors. one of the last shows or even the last one, so I think it must have been around 1970 - can't remember anymore. he told me he was near to the taper and it seems he had contact to him over the years. Even the Doors (or better what's left of them) asked once for a copy but he (the taper) was asking for too much and so the deal never happened. btw there's a faked tape around...

silkcut

as much as the surviving doors milk anything that deals with jim morrison i'm suprised they didn't pay it . if they could they would make a cd or video of jim taking a dump

Silkcut; yes thank you I recieved your PM!
I sent you an e-mail yesterday, please let me know if you haven't recieved it - and I'll send again.

Concerning your comments on mr. Freezer; yes I can see what you mean, indeed.
He was polite with me though.
Would love to know the San Antonio setlist, myself; allthough a recording would be preferred of course ;-]

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Silkcut; yes thank you I recieved your PM!
> I sent you an e-mail yesterday, please let me know
> if you haven't recieved it - and I'll send again.

No, not yet - please send it again.

Silkcut; I've just re-sent it. If it doesn't reach you; I'll see you on Dime in a few hours, cheers

Mr. San Antonio Taper should realize his days of 'cashing in' on an audience tape are long gone. We aren't talking a SB or even studio outtakes here. He's had a 'holy grail' for over 30 years and hasn't been able to barter for it yet. Time to take the glory for being the person to finally allow this tape to circulate, as opposed to finding that big score trade. He certainly doesn't have any financial gain to be had as the bootleg market has started to get smaller with all of the file sharing going on.

As you point out, it will most-likely go to the grave with him and it will be a loss for everyone.

And any 70s taper who is concerned about the 'quality' of their recording hurting their reputation is living in some other atmosphere. Considering the horrendous quality of some of the tapes that have circulated for years the only way any of these tapes could be any worse would be if they were filled will constant feedback or static. And even so, Lou Reed sold plenty of copies of the "Metal Machine Music" CD. ;-)

Sitting on an antique audience tape without having some kind of 'no-trade' clause being part of how you obtained it in the first place is inane.

J

JMARKO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mr. San Antonio Taper should realize his days of
> 'cashing in' on an audience tape are long gone.
> We aren't talking a SB or even studio outtakes
> here. He's had a 'holy grail' for over 30 years
> and hasn't been able to barter for it yet. Time to
> take the glory for being the person to finally
> allow this tape to circulate, as opposed to
> finding that big score trade. He certainly doesn't
> have any financial gain to be had as the bootleg
> market has started to get smaller with all of the
> file sharing going on.
>
> As you point out, it will most-likely go to the
> grave with him and it will be a loss for
> everyone.


JMarko, the person in question never cashed in on his recordings, in fact he's very annoyed that the bootlegers earned money on his Baton Rouge and Jacksonville 75 tapings - allthough these were made from HIGH generation copies.
If you want to hear how Baton Rouge, Jacksonville...and some other shows REALLY sounds, before they were "degraded"; check out the bonus tracks on "Any Port In A Storm Revisited" (VGP). Freezer sent these tracks + Mobile 1972 to somebody on this board, after a long discussion here with him. Haven't seen him on IORR in years - that "Freezer-thread" is long ago placed into the IORR archieves
I think the money-making (=the bootlegers) is a main factor of him not sharing these shows we long for.

In his defence; he has been sharing other gems - not only Rolling Stones - through the years. For instance Chicago 1978, Akron 1972, Mobile 1972...not necessarily taped by him personally.
He's still holding on to some of his masterpieces, like Baton Rouge - San ANtonio....and probably others as well.

It's sad to know there's great music out there, which we won't get to hear. But the person who own a tape is free to do what he wants with it. It's their recording, not "ours".



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-09 01:07 by Erik_Snow.

not even giving out setlists for San Antonio could also be an indication that Freezer is fooling us all. I mean whatever reason he may have to hold the audio back or for his tactics to offer and then 'step back' it can be understandable if you stretch your imagination - regardless if you agree or not. but not giving out the setlists would indicate that he simply is not able to do so because he actually does not have the audio available - giving out false setlists always carries the risk that if a certain show indeed shows up some time later this would officially declare you as a liar....

I hear you, Alimente - and I would probably agree that it was likely - if we were talking about some other person claiming to have San Antonio 75.
The thing is that mr Freezer is not like other persons. I didn't even ask him about the setlist, as I was certain he wouldn't give me a reply - and he would probably think I was being obnoxious for asking about it.

silkcut1978 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> Btw - in another thread somebody asked for Dallas
> - it was recorded but the taper never copied it
> because he isn't satisfied with the quality....
>
> silkcut


In my opinion, Dallas was the better show. If we could dislodge that one, I think we'd have something. Right before a break and the LA run, I think...I heard what you said about sound quality, but from my seats it was better in Dallas than San Antonio -- no roof in Dallas. I had pretty bad echo in San Antonio.

Freezer shows up and communicates on the boards from time to time. I think he cares about the music...we'll see how it plays out, i guess

Freezer has Houston 1972.

HEILOOBAAS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Freezer has Houston 1972.

Here's hoping he has 1st *and* 2nd shows!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-01 01:46 by stoneslib.

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-
> He's still holding on to some of his masterpieces,
> like Baton Rouge - San ANtonio....and probably
> others as well.

And the reason now, after all of these years is? Again, this isn't like he traded for those shows and can't release them by agreement.

The easiest way to avoid bootleggers making any money off of them is to distribute them through a site like this.

I'm familiar with high-level collectors as well. I understand their thought process in many ways. But this doesn't really make any sense.

If he cares about the music, and it's music he recorded, what exactly is he doing with it all then?

Reeks of an ego trip.

J

I read the entire thread here. Pitiful about 1975.

Gotta say this -

I heard the Stones in San Antonio in 1964.
They opened the show for Bobby Vinton
at the Teen Fair in the Joe Freeman Coliseum.

Their second date in the USA ever.
First was in California.
Bakersfield I think it was.

Not Fade Away , bSide I Wanna Be Your Man,
was released a day or two earlier.

Read Bill Wyman's book Stone Alone,
he talks about San Antonio.
First thing they did when they got here was
to go to the pawn shop and buy guns.

Then they went out and shot rattlesnakes.

I was 14 years old.

Second time live was in Dallas - 1969.
The ill fated tour that culminated at Altamont.
Brian Jones had been murdered earlier this year,
Mick Taylor was on guitar.
Great show.

Chuck Berry opened the show,
then Ike AND Tina Turner did their thing.

mud

mud

If Freezer can´t get the Doors New Orleans 1970 tape (their last ever performance) then noone can. Even The Doors´ management couldn´t get their hands on this tape.

He posted a list of the Stones shows he taped a few years ago which included the following (snippets of some of these are available on the "Freezer sampler" CDs):

HOUSTON´72
MOBILE´72
TUSCALOOSA´72
BATON ROUGE´75
SAN ANTONIO´75
JACKSONVILLE´75 (different source than "A Tour De Force"; Freezer always thought VGP used his recording until I conviced him otherwise)
NEW ORLEANS´78
NEW ORLEANS´81

Apart from Mobile´72 and Baton Rouge´75, none of these are circulating in complete from.
And this is just the stuff he taped, i.e. the tip of the iceberg. I wonder what (uncirculating) gems he traded these for.

Personally, I don´t care if he circulates any of his masters or not. These are his tapes and he can do whatever he wants with them. There is so much good music out there and I have better things to do than to worry about a few uncirculating live recordings.
Still, I´d be as happy as any other hardcore STP fan to be able to hear a complete Houston´72 show ;-)

Freezer regularly sends out awesome music from his vast collection to be torrented online. Check out www.thetradersden.org



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-01 15:24 by Tornandfrayed.

mudpuddle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Brian Jones had been murdered earlier this year,

Really?

News to me.

J

JMARKO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Erik_Snow Wrote:
> -
> > He's still holding on to some of his
> masterpieces,
> > like Baton Rouge - San ANtonio....and probably
> > others as well.
>
> And the reason now, after all of these years is?
> Again, this isn't like he traded for those shows
> and can't release them by agreement.
>


Nope, he is a bit higher up the food chain than that.


> The easiest way to avoid bootleggers making any
> money off of them is to distribute them through a
> site like this.
>


Or just keep them for personal use.


> I'm familiar with high-level collectors as well. I
> understand their thought process in many ways. But
> this doesn't really make any sense.
>


It doesn't have to make sense to you.


> If he cares about the music, and it's music he
> recorded, what exactly is he doing with it all
> then?
>

Probably just sitting in a box. However, it's my understanding he has always taped for himself and not as some kind of public service. I feel the same way about my own collection though I am more likely to kick stuff out as soon as I can.

It will be awhile before any of my uncirculated STones recordings come out though thanks to my posts in all possible boards asking for 2 opening acts to be taped last tour went ignored. Guess we will see who the opening acts are the next tour and maybe someone will make a little effort to get inside and hit the record button a little early.

And I don't think he is under any obligation to circulate any of his recordings. If anyone wants to hear it that bad, lets just hope someone can unleash the Doors New Orleans show for him. Not sure how much he cares about music these days but it looks like he cares enough about that Doors show.

> Reeks of an ego trip.
>
> J

Reeks of someone who really wants a Doors show.

If you have the Doors show and you are reading this you must do as I say and send it to Freezer. You are growing sleepy, your eyelids are heavy, it's only rock and roll but you like it, like it, yes you do.

Dan Wrote:

>
> Nope, he is a bit higher up the food chain than
> that.

Oh really? What exactly is _that_ supposed to mean? If he's so 'evolved' why doesn't he have his precious Doors' show?


>
> Or just keep them for personal use.
>

Well, he doesn't seem to do that now does he? After all, there are enough people that know about his stash.


>
> It doesn't have to make sense to you.
>

It doesn't make sense in general. Not just to my confused, unworthy mind (read sarcastic intent)

>
> Probably just sitting in a box. However, it's my
> understanding he has always taped for himself and
> not as some kind of public service.
>

Then why is he a collector? And wy does he release "some" of his stuff? And why does he make sure people know his master sources are so much better? And why did he 'protect' them by letting out high generation copies instead of better sounding ones? Duh?

He's obviously keeping the goods for some perceived leverage.



> I feel the
> same way about my own collection though I am more
> likely to kick stuff out as soon as I can.

>
> It will be awhile before any of my uncirculated
> STones recordings come out though thanks to my
> posts in all possible boards asking for 2 opening
> acts to be taped last tour went ignored. Guess we
> will see who the opening acts are the next tour
> and maybe someone will make a little effort to get
> inside and hit the record button a little early.

Wow, so unlike Freezer you are all about manipulating other people through your perceived leverage? You actually expect annonymous people to tape specifically for you? Did you tape for all of us? What a service. Tell me, how many shows do you think you have in your collection that other people taped without considering your stash of recordings? I'm going to guess quite a few.
Or wait, let me guess, you only have shows you recorded?

And I'd really like to know which opening bands these were. Who knows, maybe I recorded them.

>
> And I don't think he is under any obligation to
> circulate any of his recordings. If anyone wants
> to hear it that bad, lets just hope someone can
> unleash the Doors New Orleans show for him. Not
> sure how much he cares about music these days but
> it looks like he cares enough about that Doors
> show.

Oh it sounds like he cares PLENTY about music these days. As much as you do that's for sure. Unfortunately, your concern and care for your own senses of self-importance seem to be more of a concern for both of you.

If Freezer is so not into it -- why is he communicating with these boards through other people? Why is he releasing tidbits of his stash?

>
> Reeks of someone who really wants a Doors show.

Yeah. Good luck with that one. Karma's a funny thing.

Honestly, I hope he finds it, because we all know what kind of a rush it is to get something that we've always been looking for. Unfortunately he, and you, don't seem to think most people deserve that feeling unless they 'earn' it through some unknown test of ..... hell I don't even know what you call this... worth?

Outside of Sir Morgan's Cove and The 100 Club, I can't think of an audience tape of anything that would be worth the kind of secrecy we're talking about in this thread.




J

JMARKO Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Unfortunately he,
> and you, don't seem to think most people deserve
> that feeling unless they 'earn' it through some
> unknown test of ..... hell I don't even know what
> you call this... worth?
>
> Outside of Sir Morgan's Cove and The 100 Club, I
> can't think of an audience tape of anything that
> would be worth the kind of secrecy we're talking
> about in this thread.

Thanks JMARKO for this "unknown test of worth" - english isn't my native language and you put in a very few words what I always felt but couldn't express on my own.

And yes, we're only talking about a few more live shows - would be great to have them but it's not Sir Morgan's Cove and not the 100 Club. Personally I'd add the El Mocambo as well, no matter if audience or soundboard

But one thing I learned is that it would have been better NOT to get in contact with Freezer. We agreed not the trade months ago but he's on me like a limpet and I could exchange PMs with him on Dime and TTD forever. He's important and I'm a liar and he can't stop telling me so...sometimes it's hard.

I wonder which kind of life leads to such an attitude.

silkcut