McCartney, there are some serious collectors here...If you collect photocopies of stamps that's your problem but let people do what they want.

The Sicilian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how do you know that you are getting a pressed
> CD and not a CD-R that looks like a pressed CD?


You don't. You don't know if it's audience or soundboard half the time either. And sonce NONE of it is from an official source - it should be free, or for 'at cost' at the most.

The Sicilian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how do you know that you are getting a pressed
> CD and not a CD-R that looks like a pressed CD?

Yes you can. Numnbers on the back center. indicates it's a pressed CD or a CDR

DirtyWorks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you collect photocopies of stamps that's
> your problem but let people do what they want.

this is exactly what i think.

when you got a copy, you only got a copy.

you have the music, not the collector's item.

to be honest, a lot of bootlegs are just crap, and a copy is enough.

but there is some bootlegs that are, in my opinion, equal to official records.

to be honest, some of them are better both in sound quality and musical interest.

the KBFH 73 recordings are, in my opinion superior to Get Yer Ya Ya's Out, wich is the best official live album.

voodoo lounge is a good album, but voodoo stew + voodoo brew + voodoo residue is just, what can i say.... fantastic.

I mean, there is some bootleg records every stone fan must have (as a record, not as a copy). welcome to ny is a must-have. just like leeds 71.

Hey folks, as I recognized my Interest for boots (my first Wishes were Atlantic City 89 and Cologne 95) several years ago, I would have nearly spent a lot of money for those, cause I did not know, where to get them instead of buying.
But after a while I was in business, and I can tell you that works faster than you think, but many boots are not worth 15 Euros or so and I am really happy that I save my money...

But now I must admit, and agree with haristone, that the great ones -- atlantic city, jersey devil, millard masters, ride like the wind, hampton roads 81, brussel73 and many more -- would be worth a lot of money. Cuz having these as "originals" is a really fantastic thing!!!!

Cheers

I do see your point. I have some vinyls which I adore. Perhaps I should have said this; I see nothing WRONG with trading, sharing downloading stuff which hasn't been commercially released. You shouldn't HAVE to pay anyone to obtain mp3 or flac files.

Collector bootlegs DO have their place for people who want it. Hey, I'm not anti-capitalism!

Collecting boots is a great hobby but collecting artwork is not something I'm interested in. Part of it is the fact that I don't have much money to spend on genuine silver pressings. The other part is that I'm only interested in the music. With that being said, a FLAC rip is the same sound quality as a silver pressed cd, which is the same quality as a cdr of that silver pressed cd. Its a digital medium. As long as everyone keeps making digital copies, IE: CDRs and torrents, the recordings will be around forever. Personally I've ripped almost all of my originals to my harddrive (flac) and keep everything in storage. All of my collection is meticulously organized and can be accessed in a heartbeat. Point is, if you only care about the music lossless audio is the way to go. Whether its an original silver, a CDR of the silver or a flac torrent, its all the same quality. And please don't take my comments as 'audio snobbery'. There's a big difference between condescension and passion. FLAC is indeed superior to mp3 in all ways possible, BUT if you can't notice the difference between lossless audio (original vinyl, real cds) and compressed audio (mp3/wma/etc...) then enjoy your compressed audio. Just make sure you don't trade your mp3s on an audio cd.

Storing your collection on an external drive is the absolute best way to preserve your music. I have a 500 gig HD which has all of my audio in lossless format. It scans itself daily for corrupted data... If one of those scans ever has a problem I'll just go out, buy another 500 gig HD on sale, and dump everything onto the new one. Thats a minimal investment, about every 4 years, to keep your entire collection in the same quality as you bought/downloaded/traded it.

-Drake

DirtyWorks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> McCartney, there are some serious collectors
> here...If you collect photocopies of stamps that's
> your problem but let people do what they want.

As a serious stamp collector ( I specialise in Poland & Poland related material) this comment made me smile.

When the Soviet Republic broke up stamp production was an immediate problem for the newly independent countries, they had few secure printing facilities, lack of quality paper, inks, artists, etc. Ukraine was reduced to producing photocopied stamps for a couple of months, the problem for collectors is that it's easy to produce forgeries, just photocopy them.


You've all had the Nigerian spam "my husband/brother/friend just died & there's $15 million in a trunk which I need you to help me access...." you know the one. Before the net, they used to do this by mail sending out letters saying exactly the same thing. To save on postage they photocopied real Nigerian stamps, used a sewing machine to perforate them, & sent the letters out. Now this item is highly collectible, it's a postal forgery, used to defraud the postal authorities, you have to keep the whole letter with the cancellation to prove it's been through the post.

TV81,
I can not understund why are atlantic city, jersey devil, millard masters, ride like the wind, hampton roads 81, brussel73, worth and another bootlegs are not worth? As I can see from these titles, they are all pretty excellent sounding. If you want hear only music, you don't need to buy bootleg,you can trade or download. So if you buy original bootleg beacouse it is good sounding it is waste of money too. Many of these titles are released at least 4 times from different boot labels and are around in big qauntities. If you want tomorrow to sell that bootlegs, I guess that you will not get much money. If you buy non good sounding bootgel which is limited on 100-300, it is greater chance to get back your money.

If you're in it solely for the music you just get them burned. If you're a real hardcore collector you buy original bootleg CDs (Silver pressed and with a pro look).

JumpingKentFlash

This discussion is a bit sterile...
It is just a point of view (and of money...)
I guess everybody would get original boots if they could afford.
When you get mp3, you only get the music, and that's it... for me it is very very frustrating not to own the thing and I buy a lot of boots since I can afford them. (I began by trades years ago and now buy original, as the opposite of a lot of people there...)
And, as I can see on ebay for example, some boots can still be sold at vey high prices, while mp3 worth nothing...

OK - frankly I didn't want a discussion about silver pressed CDs versus CDrs versus FLAC versus MP3 etc...

What do you guys reckon an original Swinging Pig 2-CD (not a @#$%& copy CDr, MP3 etc..) "Philadelphia Special" : Live Philly, Ft Worth & Houston US 1972 would be worth ?

Or a Scorpio Productions "1972 Dallas Rehearsals" 2CD ?

Or "Advantage Melbourne" OBR 18/2/1973 ?

ideas? or are we all happy to trade for MP3s ?

> If you're a real hardcore collector
> you buy original bootleg CDs (Silver pressed and
> with a pro look).

... you mean, you buy the original vinyl pressing!

[thepowergoats.com]

sumi Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
If you buy non good
> sounding bootgel which is limited on 100-300, it
> is greater chance to get back your money.


I agree. Brussles '73 etc has been released a million times by many bootleg labels and probably will be "improved" in years to come...the best boots I reckon are the ones that are of a limited edition and are the best available version.

But I'm not after my money back - just wanted to know how much some of these limited edition boots are worth ?

There's heaps just gathering dust at home

I'd think the vinyl would be worth far more than any CD. CD's contain easily rip-able, burn-able data, so it's really just 'packaging' - which is not official anyways.

Vinyl, on the other hand... bootlegs on vinyl are far sexier!

[thepowergoats.com]

Luke33 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK - frankly I didn't want a discussion about
> silver pressed CDs versus CDrs versus FLAC versus
> MP3 etc...
>
> What do you guys reckon an original Swinging Pig
> 2-CD (not a @#$%& copy CDr, MP3 etc..)
> "Philadelphia Special" : Live Philly, Ft Worth &
> Houston US 1972 would be worth ?
>
> Or a Scorpio Productions "1972 Dallas Rehearsals"
> 2CD ?
>
> Or "Advantage Melbourne" OBR 18/2/1973 ?
>
> ideas? or are we all happy to trade for MP3s ?

Ebay is a quite good way to get a clue about a bootleg value. Checking the ended sales on this site is a good way to get an idea.
The original TSP "Philadelphia Special" can be found between 35 and 50€
Same for the Dallas Rehearsal from Scorpio (other releases worth less)
OBR is around 50/80€ for a single CD... sometimes more when you find it!

Philadelphia SPecial is available better and more complete on the Rattlesnake 7CDbox.
Dallas Rehearsals is available more complete on DAC.
These CDs is not worth 35-50 euro,
when it comes to Advantage Melbourne, I'm not sure how it differs with Melbourne all You Can Eat....I only got the VGP version.
Don't pay more than 20 euros for the TSP and Scorpio.

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Philadelphia SPecial is available better and more
> complete on the Rattlesnake 7CDbox.
FRight, but Luke asked for the TSP release...


> Dallas Rehearsals is available more complete on
> DAC.
Wrong, Scorpio is the finder of the tape.

> These CDs is not worth 35-50 euro,
Wrong again.


> when it comes to Advantage Melbourne, I'm not sure
> how it differs with Melbourne all You Can Eat....I
> only got the VGP version.
Collector... OBR found the tape.

> Don't pay more than 20 euros for the TSP and
> Scorpio.
It would be a real challenge to find those at this price!

mitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Erik_Snow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Philadelphia SPecial is available better and
> more
> > complete on the Rattlesnake 7CDbox.
> FRight, but Luke asked for the TSP release...

In other words, there's not much point in tracking the TSP release down, as you'll need the box later anyway.

>
> > Dallas Rehearsals is available more complete on
> > DAC.
> Wrong, Scorpio is the finder of the tape.

"Wrong?" I never said anything about the "finder", DAC is a bit longer, that's all.

> > These CDs is not worth 35-50 euro,
> Wrong again.

No, it's the truth.

> > when it comes to Advantage Melbourne, I'm not
> sure
> > how it differs with Melbourne all You Can
> Eat....I
> > only got the VGP version.
> Collector... OBR found the tape.
>
> > Don't pay more than 20 euros for the TSP and
> > Scorpio.
> It would be a real challenge to find those at this
> price!


I paid 15-20 euros for my TSP CDs.

jamesfdouglas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > If you're a real hardcore collector
> > you buy original bootleg CDs (Silver pressed
> and
> > with a pro look).
>
> ... you mean, you buy the original vinyl pressing!


That depends if it's on vinyal at all. The Black Album isn't for example.

JumpingKentFlash

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> mitch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Erik_Snow Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Philadelphia SPecial is available better and
> > more
> > > complete on the Rattlesnake 7CDbox.
> > FRight, but Luke asked for the TSP release...
>
> In other words, there's not much point in tracking
> the TSP release down, as you'll need the box later
> anyway.
If you have Philly Special, Welcome To NY, and Sweet Black Angel,this compilation is useless.


>
> >
> > > Dallas Rehearsals is available more complete
> on
> > > DAC.
> > Wrong, Scorpio is the finder of the tape.
>
> "Wrong?" I never said anything about the "finder",
> DAC is a bit longer, that's all.
For collectors, the first edition matters, the sound isn't improved.

>
> > > These CDs is not worth 35-50 euro,
> > Wrong again.
>
> No, it's the truth.
Childhood debate.

>
> > > when it comes to Advantage Melbourne, I'm not
> > sure
> > > how it differs with Melbourne all You Can
> > Eat....I
> > > only got the VGP version.
> > Collector... OBR found the tape.
> >
> > > Don't pay more than 20 euros for the TSP and
> > > Scorpio.
> > It would be a real challenge to find those at
> this
> > price!
>
>
> I paid 15-20 euros for my TSP CDs.
Then you did an affair... you should know it, if you are a big collector you are supposed to know the market...
I paid too some OBR for 35€ and I know it is not the real price.

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jamesfdouglas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > If you're a real hardcore collector
> > > you buy original bootleg CDs (Silver pressed
> > and
> > > with a pro look).
> >
> > ... you mean, you buy the original vinyl
> pressing!
>
>
> That depends if it's on vinyal at all. The Black
> Album isn't for example.

Yes, most of old vinyl have been reissued in CD with improved sound (best generation tapes,etc...) and most of CDs boots doesn't exist on vinyl, like Voodoo Brew, RSVP, Acetates, etc...

mitch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Erik_Snow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > mitch Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Erik_Snow Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Philadelphia SPecial is available better
> and
> > > more
> > > > complete on the Rattlesnake 7CDbox.
> > > FRight, but Luke asked for the TSP release...
> >
> > In other words, there's not much point in
> tracking
> > the TSP release down, as you'll need the box
> later
> > anyway.
> If you have Philly Special, Welcome To NY, and
> Sweet Black Angel,this compilation is useless.


It appears to me that you don't know what's on that box.
You'll need about 10 bootlegs to compile that stuff,
no need to sound so arrogant,
have a nice weekend



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-20 21:23 by Erik_Snow.

This kind of relates to CD collector issue. I love history and I buy books on certain historical subjects. I also want only hard cover books for my library. Lots of books that I buy I have yet to read. Of course I'm super fussy about no tears in the dust jackets and immaculate condition. But I have them, whether to have for reference or for reading a later date.

Now some of these books I desire are out of print which sends you looking for used out of print books. Now a recent set of two volume on the French settlement in the Niagara great lakes region that I want for research is available at used book stores. One in my area has the two volume set for about $300. A little pricey. However Cornell University has both the entire volumes scanned and can reprint in hard cover for $60.00 each. It is not the original first editions but a reprint based on scanned material from an original. I had one of a different title reprinted and shipped. I also needed it badly (and could not find it used) and I wanted to see how the quality was before I purchased any more.

So one has to decide if that is acceptable as the book is a duplicate but not quite an original. But having those two volumes first edition looks good and gives you peace of mind, but the reprints technically fill the need and serve the purpose. But in my view-and probably no one elses-there is a difference. So I guess it is in the eye of the beholder.

Luke33 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My god ! I think I opened up a pandoras box !
>
> Thanks to the guys/gals who answered what i
> thought was a simple question.
>
> Incidently, I miss those Record Fairs where you
> could buy silver pressed Bootleg CDs....
>
> Luke


hi,
Luke33

email me pv at megad78@aol.com (if u want)

i'll tell u where u can get original & mint silver pressed stuff

greet's

Luke: I'm going to a CD/Record Fair on Feb. 10th. Lots and lots of silver pressed boots.

JumpingKentFlash

Where is that fair ???
I WANT TO GO!!!!

''Let's Do Some Living , Before We Die''