I noted that Zentfgraf lists 4 versions of HOS.
Out of them, Version III is the official 7'.
Version IV, longer, is on several LPs.
In both these versions III and IV, at 1.10, before the solo, jagger says "mmh!".
There is an additional version (included in the US Mono LP, NOW) without "mmh" before the solo: the mix is the same as version IV but the end is short, same as the single 7'.
Therefore, unless my ears are gone, the official versions of HOS are three and not two.
If anybody has time to give a listen and can confirm it, then we inform Nico.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-24 12:03 by straycat58.

There's the one on "Metamorphosis".


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Metamorphosis is version II and together with I were recorded at regent studios in July. One last 4,15 and the other one 3,50.
I'm referring to the November RCA sessions. The 7' is 2,45 and the Lp is 2,57.
This "new" version (without mmmh) is 2,43

The mix of this version is same as the 2,57 but the end is same as the 7. In addition, there is no mmh or uh! before the solo.'



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-23 15:18 by straycat58.

I uploaded the 3 versions on WT but cannot post here for obvious reasons.
Write me at elmolewis69@libero.it and I send them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-23 15:42 by straycat58.

Hi straycat58,
thank you!

Matti

mbozzi77@yahoo.com.ar

thank you in advance

Yes you are right. The additional version you mention is also on The Singles Collection The London Years 3 CD set, the first LP sized box set edition and also mentioned by Blake in his Rarities Done Right as "Heart Of Stone [Mono With Stereo Intro]".

Many thanks for send me the 3 versions

Francois, you should send me your email address

Quote
straycat58

In both these versions III and IV, at 1.10, before the solo, jagger says "mmh!".
There is an additional version (included in the US Mono LP, NOW) without "mmh" before the solo: the mix is the same as version IV but the end is short, same as the single 7'.
Therefore, unless my ears are gone, the official versions of HOS are three and not two.
If anybody has time to give a listen and can confirm it, then we inform Nico.

Very interesting and thanks for pointing this "mmh".

From what I hear on my CD's.
AFAIK, the SACD's are 2002 remix. Grrr! and Charlie versions are the same 2002 source.

I hear "mmh" clearly at 1:10
London Hot Rocks 1 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Now! 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Now! SACD 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Big Hits 1 SACD 2:52 Stereo
Grrr! 2:50 Stereo

Barely hear it at 1:10
London Years SACD 2:45 Mono
Charlie Is My Darling 2:45 Mono

Can't hear it at all:
London Years 1989 2:43 Stereo/Mono



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-24 05:00 by nick.

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Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-15 11:41 by straycat58.

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Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2020-03-15 11:41 by straycat58.

Quote
straycat58
Next is December 71 session at Sunset Studios in L.A.
Loving cup IV: same intro as LP but different vocals and long ab. 5,40
Loving cup V : EOMS version, 4,25

The Loving Cup included in Little boy blue differs from all the known versions and should be a Loving cup VI, not listed by Nico. What do you think?

What is the difference between the LBBvtlr version and the LP version? I cannot compare now by I think I assumed they were the same or one was an edit.
Also, from what source did you take #4?

Thanks for “digging in” to these.

Take 4 is included in the Red Tongue box - The real alternate EOMS (track 12 of CD1).

The difference between LP and LBB is in the intro. LBB starts with a small drumming, all the rest is identical to LP.
Not a big difference but it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-24 15:46 by straycat58.

Yes
francoiskencker@hotmail.com
thank +++

Quote
midnrambler
Yes you are right. The additional version you mention is also on The Singles Collection The London Years 3 CD set, the first LP sized box set edition and also mentioned by Blake in his Rarities Done Right as "Heart Of Stone [Mono With Stereo Intro]".

There was also a stereo intro on one of the Hot Rocks LPs.


Is the London Years a stereo intro or just in one channel?

[wetransfer.com]


807 Heart of Stone mono stereo Intro.flac

straycat58,

Here is my opinion (I think you were asking for opinions, yes?)

Although I think the differences you found are notable, I do not think they are different versions.

I think the Heart of Stone "mmh" difference is due to the slightly different mixes that exist on many different LPs over the past 50 years. I think the "mmh" is there on all of them, it's just hard to hear on some - especially the older mixes on vinyl.

Loving cup - I do not hear the "small drumming" in the intro. To me, this is the official take, although it is at a slower tempo, and there are definitely a few extra seconds (extended edit). As far as the Stones in Exile - it is very difficult to tell because they are talking over it, but parts of it at least sound like the official version. It's very possible that different clips were spliced together for the film. As such, it is difficult for me to call it a different "version", but again, very notable.

Nico (and Felix too, I've followed Felix since the early '90s before there was a TCW) is consistent with his versioning. With few exceptions:

* Different "versions" of outtakes have different vocal and/or instrument tracks - not different edits/mixes
* Different "versions" of officially released material include different edits and remixes, but not different mixes - not even in the case of stereo vs mono mixes


Again, it my opinion, others may disagree.

Your ear is very impressive - how you heard that "mmh" I'll never know!

Quote
exilestones
There was also a stereo intro on one of the Hot Rocks LPs.
Is the London Years a stereo intro or just in one channel?

The version on London Years (1989) has the same type of stereo effect by muting a channel during the first couple notes.

I do not have any Hot Rocks LP with this version, they are all mono. Do you know which LP release it is from?

Thanks blakeeik for your reply.

Yes, I agree with you with all your comments. Strange to me that you don't detect the different intro in Loving cup, it's quite easy to detect it although in the first second only.

Loving cup acoustic: yes, I didn't consider the possibility that different sources were spliced together; this aspect complicate the research.

Regarding my ear, very easy explanation: I recently tried to play the guitar solo and used to start from the mmh!; then I used another source but the mmh! was gone.

Quote
straycat58
Strange to me that you don't detect the different intro in Loving cup, it's quite easy to detect it although in the first second only.

I was listening to the copy I already had. If I download your mp3, I can hear what you mean, but it is not on mine. I think it is not part of the track but part of something else.

Quote
blakeeik

Quote
straycat58
Strange to me that you don't detect the different intro in Loving cup, it's quite easy to detect it although in the first second only.

I was listening to the copy I already had. If I download your mp3, I can hear what you mean, but it is not on mine. I think it is not part of the track but part of something else.

I fully agree, This "drum beat" does not belong to the track. It sounds like the last drum beat of the previous track that has not been properly erased on an analogue tape. This could happen on analogue tape recorders. The erasing head was positioned a little before the recording head and if you recorded over an old recording the bit of the tape that was between the two heads did not get erased. To me it sounds exactly like this here.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2018-08-25 18:57 by midnrambler.

Quote
nick
From what I hear on my CD's.
AFAIK, the SACD's are 2002 remix. Grrr! and Charlie versions are the same 2002 source.

I hear "mmh" clearly at 1:10
London Hot Rocks 1 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Now! 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Now! SACD 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Big Hits 1 SACD 2:52 Stereo
Grrr! 2:50 Stereo

Barely hear it at 1:10
London Years SACD 2:45 Mono
Charlie Is My Darling 2:45 Mono

Can't hear it at all:
London Years 1989 2:43 Stereo/Mono

Thanks for the good homework. It's hard to know exactly where these Heart of Stones came from without the catalog numbers.

Please libracosta@yahoo.com.br

thank you in advance

Thanks straycat58 and everybody else!

Quote
nick
From what I hear on my CD's.
AFAIK, the SACD's are 2002 remix. Grrr! and Charlie versions are the same 2002 source.

I hear "mmh" clearly at 1:10
London Hot Rocks 1 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Now! 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Now! SACD 2:49 Stereo
Abkco Big Hits 1 SACD 2:52 Stereo
Grrr! 2:50 Stereo

Barely hear it at 1:10
London Years SACD 2:45 Mono
Charlie Is My Darling 2:45 Mono

Can't hear it at all:
London Years 1989 2:43 Stereo/Mono

Thanks, Nick. It helped me a lot. I never noticed that "mmh" variation fefore !

Keep in mind these are CD's and some of the versions may vary from their vinyl counterpart.

I have my own question about this song. The 2002 SACD I believe is remixed. The stereo version on Now! is L-R but is the Mono version on UK Out Of Our Heads also a new dedicated L-C-R or a fold?

More on Heart of Stone: [iorr.org]

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2018-09-02 14:41 by straycat58.