Whoa dude...that was an historically awesome treat. Nadine is my all time fave too!!!

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-10-06 02:09 by Max'sKansasCity.

This is still my favorite late night appearance. Chuck and the band are rocking it

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withsssoul
but bashing Keith for doing the same thing doesn't make sense.

You gotta admit that Keith has changed his routine for playing and singing at the same time, both in a visual and audible way. I think that's the point here. There is a major difference between Keith with the Barbarians, singing and playing BTMMR and Keith doing Wanna Hold You in 2007.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-01 12:02 by DandelionPowderman.

thanks DandelionPowderman, because i'm truly trying to figure out what it is that people are talking about
when they say this about Keith. this probably isn't the best thread to discuss it,
but ... what the hell, since we're here! sure, Keith's style has changed - one difference is
that in the 70s he had more of a tendency to abandon the mic in order to focus on his playing,
and now he has more of a tendency, during his LV turns, to take his hands off his guitar to focus on his singing.
there are people who gripe about both - too bad! but what puzzles me is the way some people
perceive simultaneous singing & playing when the performer is in fact alternating between the two,
like Chuck in the clip from the Leno show - and like lots of non-recent Keith performances.

again, i am not criticizing Chuck or Keith; i don't require guitarists to play and sing simultaneously.
i'm just curious about the way some people perceive simultaneity when that's not what the performer is doing.

as for the Barbarians ... okay, i'll go study them on BTMMR, to see what you mean,
but meanwhile would you have a look at their rendition of Let's Go Steady, please?
Keith's alternating between playing and singing on that one, just like on (for example) his numbers on The Biggest Bang.
in other words yes his style/routine has changed, but his alternating between playing and singing isn't new.

it's cool that you point out the visual aspects - Keith of course gestures quite freely while he's singing -
more than he used to - and maybe that's part of what some people are talking about:
they just didn't notice until recently that he's not playing non-stop while he sings?

it's also for sure partly a question of what the guitarist is playing - you don't play lead-type lines while singing.
and on your other example - Wanna Hold You in 07 - Keith was playing lead-type stuff, not rhythm.
so is that what people are talking about - they want him to keep chording while he sings,
even when the arrangement calls for him to play lead-type lines?

sorry, that is way too long! i really am puzzled, though.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-01 13:36 by with sssoul.

I remember reading once where BB King said he developed his method of sing a line then playing a riff cause he wasnt coordinated enough to do both at the same time!It made sense to me and the outcome was great,even becoming Kings "signature" style.

But Keith has got to the point where he doesn't even touch the thing even between verses until maybe the solo break...and even then it's a BIG maybe. It's not rocket science we're talking about here. All one has to do is take any song whether it's happy, before they make me run, little t&a, etc. etc. and compare then and now. Da nile is not just a river in egypt.

Playing and singing at the same time isn't THAT damn tough. Hell, even Jagger can do it!

Keep rockin', Chuck.

While I'm not going to get involved in another Keith-doesn't-play-guitar-and-sing-at-the-same-time debate, I love it during the 'Hail Hail Rock & Roll' rehearsals where Keith offered to play the lead guitar licks during 'Carol', as he (wrongly) assumed that ol' Chuckles wouldn't be able to play them & sing at the same time...although he's probably lost some of his capabilities over the past decade or two, there's no doubt that Chuck could once play some amazing guitar licks AND sing at the same time.

>> Playing and singing at the same time isn't THAT damn tough. Hell, even Jagger can do it! <<

sure, that fits right in with my observation that it depends partly on what the guitarist is playing:
it doesn't tend to be especially complex stuff, does it - which is fine! it doesn't have to be.
as we've all noticed, a compelling performance doesn't require complexity ... or simultaneous singing/playing.

>> But Keith has got to the point where he doesn't even touch the thing even between verses until maybe the solo break <<

that's a different question, though, isn't it. Keith's playing is sparer now when he's not singing too.
i know some people don't dig that. but it isn't a new development for him to alternate between singing and playing.

anyway i didn't mean to highjack the thread - i was just intrigued by someone holding up that Chuck clip
as a shining example of simultaneous singing/playing when there's hardly any of that in it.
it's a good strong performance and that doesn't depend on simultaneity.

have some popocorn and on with the regularly scheduled thread :E



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-02 00:00 by with sssoul.

with sssoul, how's this for a hypothesis: people who complain about keith not playing and singing at the same time are really just wishing keith would play more guitar period, with the fuzzy image of him "pumping out the riffs" in their memories. I get the sense that people making these complaints could mainly take or leave having on keith on vocals if it means losing him on guitar. So it's not so much the singing-not-playing as it is simply the not-playing that distresses them, but their analysis of their feelings is off, and they harp on the singing-not-playing.

Like you, the singing-not-playing doesn't bother me so much, but I sympathize with the complainers if they feel somewhat disoriented during keith's recent vocal turns, in that during these numbers, ron as usual often isn't playing either (though he does try a little harder during these numbers, as in Shine a Light), so for most of these numbers, charlie is the only Stone on stage playing an instrument. keith's hand gestures probably only call more attention to this new shadow version of the Stones (never mind that there have been many versions of the Stones; these complaints are overlooking that fact).

I do like that part of "HAil HAil" that Sleepy City references though! Chuck says something like" I've been doing it for years" or something similiar. Its really kinda funny!
But for me Keith can play anyway he wants to-I just wanna see em again!

Sorry for hijacking though I posted on this topic using Chuck as a comparison I suppose. Agreed I would probably give up the two solo tunes to have him pumping out the riffs on something else while Micks sings which I believe he still does with all the grace for a man his age. My intention is not to dis Keith if that's the way it sounds. His playing is what got my attention from the start and kept it for all these years.

Some people talk with their hands....Keith certainly does. Keith also sings with his hands...he just can't help it. That's all.

I second that. Keith and Mick always complimented each other well. Think thats why Brian sometimes felt left to the side? Not contribution wise but maybe just relationship wise?

Funny thing!! Chucks playing in the key of C than the verse after his duck walk he changes key buy a half step for two chords until he realizes what he has done. PURE KEITH!! How can you f up a song after playing it for 50 years. 12 bar blues in C Chuck. COME ON!!

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More Hot Rocks
Funny thing!! Chucks playing in the key of C than the verse after his duck walk he changes key buy a half step for two chords until he realizes what he has done. PURE KEITH!! How can you f up a song after playing it for 50 years. 12 bar blues in C Chuck. COME ON!!

Uh, maybe his fingers slipped? Just a thought.

CBII

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CBII

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More Hot Rocks
Funny thing!! Chucks playing in the key of C than the verse after his duck walk he changes key buy a half step for two chords until he realizes what he has done. PURE KEITH!! How can you f up a song after playing it for 50 years. 12 bar blues in C Chuck. COME ON!!

Uh, maybe his fingers slipped? Just a thought.

Exactly, & we should be grateful that guys like Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis & Little Richard approach songs differently every time they play them: there's no "the chorus goes here, & the solo goes here" etc...

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Sleepy City

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CBII

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More Hot Rocks
Funny thing!! Chucks playing in the key of C than the verse after his duck walk he changes key buy a half step for two chords until he realizes what he has done. PURE KEITH!! How can you f up a song after playing it for 50 years. 12 bar blues in C Chuck. COME ON!!

Uh, maybe his fingers slipped? Just a thought.

Exactly, & we should be grateful that guys like Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis & Little Richard approach songs differently every time they play them: there's no "the chorus goes here, & the solo goes here" etc...

What a thought. Live music that's actually live, Sleepy City you get it!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-02 02:30 by CBII.

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Sleepy City

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CBII

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More Hot Rocks
Funny thing!! Chucks playing in the key of C than the verse after his duck walk he changes key buy a half step for two chords until he realizes what he has done. PURE KEITH!! How can you f up a song after playing it for 50 years. 12 bar blues in C Chuck. COME ON!!

Uh, maybe his fingers slipped? Just a thought.

Exactly, & we should be grateful that guys like Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis & Little Richard approach songs differently every time they play them: there's no "the chorus goes here, & the solo goes here" etc...

Exactly. The measure of any performing artist. The original should just be a template, leaving them room to reinvent the song through time.

Much more preferable than just attempting to play a carbon copy of the original for decades on end.

>> The measure of any performing artist. <<

smile: i am so glad to read that people on this forum appreciate this! hail hail rock & roll indeed.
i'll quote you the next time Keith plays something differently than someone expected :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-09-02 13:08 by with sssoul.