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Doxa
I remeber "Empty Heart" has a strong Keith vocal presence. But that was recorded after "It's All Over Now", right?
Aah... now I remember. "Tell Me" has that beautiful and distinctive Keith back voc. Perhaps the reason for Keith singing that it was because the song was made by him, and it belongs more to that 'lousy pop songs and ballads' section that were planned to be recorded by someone else, not The Stones. For some reason, ALO decided to release the Stones demo. I remember reading that the guys were surprised to have found the song from their first album.
- Doxa
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Doxa
I remeber "Empty Heart" has a strong Keith vocal presence. But that was recorded after "It's All Over Now", right?
Aah... now I remember. "Tell Me" has that beautiful and distinctive Keith back voc. Perhaps the reason for Keith singing that it was because the song was made by him, and it belongs more to that 'lousy pop songs and ballads' section that were planned to be recorded by someone else, not The Stones. For some reason, ALO decided to release the Stones demo. I remember reading that the guys were surprised to have found the song from their first album.
- Doxa
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Mathijs
I think after the first album and while recording the second it was decided that Brian and Bill didn't have the best of voices.
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Sleepy CityQuote
Mathijs
I think after the first album and while recording the second it was decided that Brian and Bill didn't have the best of voices.
This is probably true, but I also think that Keith was much more shy than Mick & Brian in the early days, & he didn't gain confidence until later (Bill might not have been a very confident singer, but he had plenty of self-confidence elsewhere, hence his success with women!).
I sometimes wonder how things would've turned out if Andrew had pushed Mick & Brian to write songs together.
I live in hope that some of the rumoured demos with Brian singing lead will turn up one day...
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with sssoul
Bill was still singing back-up on stage in 67. i guess it was his success with In Another Land
that led to his giving up doing backing vocals in concert
- Warsaw april 13th 1967 by Marek Karewicz (courtesy of BrownEyedGirll)
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with sssoul
>> And on which song did Keith for the first time sing solo?
Something Happened to Me Yesterday? <<
if you mean on Stones releases: right
(he did some solos in his choirboy days but the bootlegs aren't in wide circulation ... yet )
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MathijsQuote
Sleepy CityQuote
Mathijs
I think after the first album and while recording the second it was decided that Brian and Bill didn't have the best of voices.
This is probably true, but I also think that Keith was much more shy than Mick & Brian in the early days, & he didn't gain confidence until later (Bill might not have been a very confident singer, but he had plenty of self-confidence elsewhere, hence his success with women!).
I sometimes wonder how things would've turned out if Andrew had pushed Mick & Brian to write songs together.
I live in hope that some of the rumoured demos with Brian singing lead will turn up one day...
I don't buy the theory about a shy Keith. His nature may be shy, but by the time they recorded the first album he had been on hundreds of stages throughout the country already, playing in front of hundreds and thousands of teenagers. He might come across as shy, but he definitely knew what he wanted.
Concerning Brian and Mick writing together: According to Oldham he first tried to team Brian with Gene Pitney, and later with Jagger, but it became clear very fast that Brian wasn't a song writer at all.
Mathijs
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DoxaQuote
MathijsQuote
Sleepy CityQuote
Mathijs
I think after the first album and while recording the second it was decided that Brian and Bill didn't have the best of voices.
This is probably true, but I also think that Keith was much more shy than Mick & Brian in the early days, & he didn't gain confidence until later (Bill might not have been a very confident singer, but he had plenty of self-confidence elsewhere, hence his success with women!).
I sometimes wonder how things would've turned out if Andrew had pushed Mick & Brian to write songs together.
I live in hope that some of the rumoured demos with Brian singing lead will turn up one day...
I don't buy the theory about a shy Keith. His nature may be shy, but by the time they recorded the first album he had been on hundreds of stages throughout the country already, playing in front of hundreds and thousands of teenagers. He might come across as shy, but he definitely knew what he wanted.
Concerning Brian and Mick writing together: According to Oldham he first tried to team Brian with Gene Pitney, and later with Jagger, but it became clear very fast that Brian wasn't a song writer at all.
Mathijs
Bill Wyman's STONE ALONE is quite strong source regarding the backing vocals matters. Bill is very strongly claiming that it was ALO who was behind the change of the policy - bring Keith front, and recuding the roles of Bill and Brian, and Bill - perhaps naturally - sounds bitter. Giving Keith a chance to sing was a part of the deal (like pushing to write and produce ALO's orchestra, etc.) Anyway, I don't find Bill's description quite accurate - perhaps that was the way the things looked from his point of view, but what he says about Keith and Keith's ability to sing is tasteless. He claims that Keith is not a natural singer, and that he has lost of difficulties in opening his voice, etc. That is strange taking, for example, the soprano boy choir days into account. I find that also quite odd compared to the voices Brian and Bill have - there is not much material to judge from Brian, but from Bill there surely is enough to say that Bill for sure is not a "natural singer" either ... I don't know if Keith was shy or not, but for some reason he didn't sing very much in the early days. Perhaps he just wanted play the guitar, and so he was as also a bit pushed to do anything more than that (like to sing or write). Perhaps singing the back up vocals and making own songs came hand in hand - I think "Tell Me" seems to indicate quite a lot into that direction (it also can be the case that Brian and Bill perhaps were not so keen on singing Mick and Keith's songs. There seemed to be quite a lot of ego things going on.)
Of that AlO pushing the guys write. I remember reading (from his first book I guess) that he asked Gene Pitney to learn Brian to write, like giving him some push, but that Pitney soon found out that it was impossible. There were also Brian/Keith combinations with no better results. There are some good quotes - don't remember if they were by ALO, Pitney or Keith - of Brian's tough and non-compromise-making attitude to writing. Also Bill Wyman was writing his own stuff; and the guys even tried one; there is that "Goodnight Baby" (or something like that) circulating from 1964. The picture Wymans gives of those days of how the dictator ALO plainly chose Mick and Keith to write, or preferred them with unjustice over the rest, is too simple. Seemingly ALO just wanted original material and hits, and he would surely used something by Charlie or Stu if they would have come up with something interesting. It just turned out that Mick and Keith clicked together, and turned out to be natural song writers.
- Doxa
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Mathijs
But we have to stick to the facts don't we. Keith sings backup on half of the first album, and about all songs ever since. He wrote most of the songs until '67, when Jagger starts writing as well. Keith is a brilliant backup singer, with a great voice that complements Jagger's beautifully. Jones and Wyman were crap singers, and that's all there is to say about it.
Mathijs
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with sssoul
>> And on which song did Keith for the first time sing solo?
Something Happened to Me Yesterday? <<
if you mean on Stones releases: right
(he did some solos in his choirboy days but the bootlegs aren't in wide circulation ... yet )
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HEILOOBAAS
Who sang backup on "You Better Move On"?
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with sssoul
>> What about bootleg demos, any Keith lead vocals that pre-date [Something Happened to Me Yesterday]?
well ... sort of! not demos but performances like the 1964 NME awards show
with that gloriously ferocious three-way shared lead on I'm Alright
and the july 17th 1964 Joe Loss Pop Show where Keith's "backing vocals" on If You Need Me dominate the whole tune -
he's not technically sharing the lead vocal on that, but he might as well be, and he's singing just *beautiful*.
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with sssoul
>> maybe we should ask her majesty the queen for a tape of her coronation service! <<
yeah - Keith's angelic soprano on Little Queenie was quite something, i'm sure
(Keith didn't sing at the coronation - he wasn't a choirboy yet at that time.
he did sing for the Queen, but at a different event.)