I've been following Stones tours on credit since 1995, mate! LOL

Yes, but the Stones are absolutely worth it!

Mick & Keith (or maybe Bill Wyman) addressed this topic the best, 40 years ago:

It's a gas, gas, gas

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The Joker
Do you think it will hurt our tiny travelling self-indulgences?

.... the set-list would pain more than the fuel needle...............

Maybe this is easy for me to say since I haven't driven in the last six months since my car died but I think the problem is blown way out of proportion. Yes gas prices have gone way up but is it really eating into people's wallets that much? Most drivers use too much gas anyway. You can compensate for the rising prices by adopting better driving habits. For instance most people have the bad habit of constantly hitting the gas pedal only to hit the brake a few seconds later when they could just coast for awhile. You can also take your foot off the gas when going downhill and just roll downhill.

"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 04:51 by FrankM.

The transportation system in the USA is SO messed up it's laughable. We have thousands of miles of roadways and hundreds of millions of vehicles. Our government promotes consumption as opposed to conservation. Our tax dollars go toward building more roadways instead of efficient mass transit like light rail. Automobiles are like Crack cocaine to many of us here in the USA. If we don't have one, we go crazy OR are not considered COOL.

Look no further than the auto manufactures and the absolute mess they are in. Large vehicles are just not selling and they cannot produce small cars fast enough. Even then with the current recession and massive layoffs, people are struggling just to keep their homes. GM had a winner with the EV1 (an electric vehicle), the test market LOVED them yet the executives (some of which also sat on the board of directors of petroleum suppliers and producers) killed the car. Goodyear and General Motors destroyed our mass transit rail systems back in the 1950's - 1960's. These are classic cases of short term gain trumping long term viability.

The fact that the price of Petroleum based products has nearly TRIPLED since 2003, is know cutting DEEPLY in to the pockets of consumers. The most recent issue of Rolling Stone magazine had a report on fuel and food price increases and their direct impact on concert ticket sales. Instead of sellout tours, some of the major acts and many of the lesser known ones are not getting the revenues expected.

Will this impact a classic style stadium / large venue tour by the Rolling Stones in the USA? Yes it will. There simply are not 70 - 80 thousand people per market that will be able to afford 2 tickets at $100 - $300 USD each. Depending on the type of vehicle a fan drives and the distance they commute, $300 dollars for fuel might last one to two weeks! A full size truck, SUV or high performance sports car will EASILY do exactly that.

I love the mass transit system in many parts of Europe. From the high speed trains in France (we went from Paris to Bordeaux to Toulouse on the train and loved every minute of it), to the Tube in London (seeing people drinking pints in the tube and on the train was fascinating) were both much more enjoyable and cost less. I only wish my government used common sense a bit more often.

CBII

I really don't think it is as big a deal as people make it out to be and I'm not trying to justify the prices or side with the oil companies who can be greedy bastards. Follow the math with me. The average person in the U.S drives maybe twenty miles to work one way? That's forty miles per day or two hundred miles per week based on a five day work week. Of course you may drive on the weekends too so let's say you drive 300 miles per week. If you have an economy car and get 30mpg then you use about ten gallons per week. If gas goes up a whole dollar you will spend an extra ten dollars per week or around 500 bucks per year. Yeah it's a lot of money but in proportion to what the average person earns per year it's not a life changing amount of money.

When I went to see The Stones at Giant's stadium I drove about twenty miles from Livingston, N.J.. The fuel back then cost about four bucks round trip now it would cost six bucks round trip. Considering the cost of the ticket and parking the small change in gas wouldn't make a big difference.

Frank, I think your math is really way off, my friend! I drive only 20 miles a day for work, and my car is good on gas and STILL I spend about $28 dollars per week on gas. That's $1456 per year and compared to friends who drive 3 times that far, daily, it's a deal! They're spending about $60 per week or more times 52 weeks and that's $3120 per year, not counting vacations and weekend extra driving! That's 3 times what we spent 8 years ago, do the math!
CBILL is exactly right!! The cost of fuel in the USA is bleeding everyone because EVERYTHING is connected to the rising costs of oil! It sure is a BIG DEAL for most folks.

well most folksin the US need to put on their thinking caps.. i say this as an american.. but the days of people having 5 cars in one family need to come to an end.. why should the US govt ensure cheap gas for americans when other governments tax it more so it costs more and therefore keeps consumption down and helps finance the govt??? do americans reallize they are the only country in the world that lives this way?? driving all this distance just to buy a gallon of milk?

people need to stop organizing their lives in such a way that it requires so much driving.... now i understand people are feeling it right now but for all those years when gas was cheap all they did was buy SUVs and laugh at anyone that pointed out how much gasoline they consumed... i mean to those people from europe who have not driven much on our highways: american highways are just full of SUVs... a few years ago it almost became the norm to buy a gas guzzling suv...

as an environmentalist i happen to think the high price of gasoline is good.. there are also good political reasons.. who wants to keep buying gas from countries in the middle east that seem to have so many problems with us???

where is helter skelter when you need him..



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 07:29 by stoned in washington dc.

..... wow'zeeeee

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-07 09:31 by ryanpow.

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CBII
I love the mass transit system in many parts of Europe. From the high speed trains in France (we went from Paris to Bordeaux to Toulouse on the train and loved every minute of it), to the Tube in London (seeing people drinking pints in the tube and on the train was fascinating) were both much more enjoyable and cost less. I only wish my government used common sense a bit more often.

No drinking on the tube or trains anymore, CBII! The first thing the new mayor of London did when he took office was to ban alcohol on public transport.

No matter in the USA - the oil companies are laughing all the way to the bank. Politics have - imo - nothing to do with it. Everyone knows HW and Binny are holding hands.

It's all one big sickly rich people's joke on the people who...don't have the money they do.

US Americans have been spoiled for eons. Now that gasoline prices are high, suddenly - OHMYGOD - they need to cut down on the amount of 2 litre Diet Cokes they buy. Etc...

US Americans will adjust - grumpily, but they will. And you know how that will work. Everyone will have finally gotten used to paying 4 to 5 dollars a gallon, things will ease to a level of being equal among that scale, and then The Rolling Stones will swoop in for one last major stomping the shit out of rock'n'roll killing.

And then they'll call it quits.

yes europe pays more for fuel ,but stones ticket prices are so cheap .what are they 50 ,75 ,80, 100, euro ?i would take that .

Didnt say any individual in him- or herself do mock USA,
but the society walks in the same tracks. Of course people in
Stockholm, Göteborg & Atlanta or wherever in a big city cant walk to work -
there are often 10's of km to it.
But here, where I am, we
(a) Have almost no buses at all.
(b) Most often can walk to our work places.

Another thing I have discovered, thou, is that big city-people often
tend to be lazy and too stressed and therefore they can use bus or car
for transportations of distances at like 200 meters or so.

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Gazza

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angee
Gazza, one reason (besides those stated by mickschix) is that I think we drive more over here in the US, for longer distances. Why is that? Many reasons, including a lack of good public transportation. Some live fairly far away from their jobs, by choice, yes, but not an easy path to re-negotiate.

what - hundreds of miles? Theres only so far most people are realistically going to be able to drive to and from work each day.

people in england commute long distances too.

Gazza - i think you missed the main point by Angee - which is "lack of good Public Transit" (ie - trains). Does not exist in the states to commute to work - at least not like in the U.K. SO you guys can commute in "long distances too" BY TRAIN!!
North Americans DO travel by CAR (more $$$) alot more.

It's interesting (and of course sad for everyone affected) that it seems to hit the US that hard. Millions of jobs in the US depend on the car industry and Ford, Chrysler and GM are currently facing huge problems (even bigger than they'd admit) as their biggest selling vehicles used to be the big SUVs and Pick Ups. While the real price increase might not even be that big, the perceived increase is much higher and one of the first things that people stop buying is capital intense products such as cars.

Now those old "dinosaur-like" companies will have to act quickly and start introducing small, fuel-efficient cars to the US market. We got plenty of small Ford (Ka for example) and GM vehicles (mainly Opel/Vauxhall) here in Europe and the R&D for those is already done and paid for. But also Toyota is facing big problems - not even their hybrid is a big seller - much too expensive. It'll be a big race on who builds the first proper electric car (before hydrogen fuel works properly).

I for one don't agree that throwing away trillions on men who already own the world is a " good thing!" Not by any stretch and for those living outside of the USA, Angee did nail it! It has been crippling to us here because we lack a great mass transit system. Our trains SUCK, we do not have trains and buses that go everywhere on a schedule that coincides with my job. They don't even go to the place where I work!! Because we all know that politics and greed is controlling this mess, sure, we are pissed off, and rightfully so!

It's the LIBERAL environmentalists - that will not allow any of the oil companies to build any new refineries or allow drilling within the US(ANWAR etc).

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mickschix
I'll tell you why we get so worked up about gas prices! One, there is no reason for it here in the USA except for those who KNOW, it all has to do with Bush refusing to harvest oil that is ready to pump right off of our own shores. He choses to buy foreign oil because it helps his oil buddies continue to make trillions of dollars at the expense of the poor and middle class! Our own Senators tell it like it is on national tV! ( Joe Biden for one!). Second, in the USA we don't have villages, we have cities that are usually quite a distance away from one another. Americans usually cannot walk to work, to market, as you can in Europe. Our society is totally different from the European culture, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Yes, Americans have become oil " pigs", using huge SUV's instead of more practical vehicles but the adjustments cannot be made by waving a magic wand. And , yes, I think the entire economy has beeb hurt tremendously by the cost of fuel in the USA so it could certainly impact the Stones tour in a negative way. Everything has increased in price due to the rising cost of oil! People are losing their family homes, food costs are crazy! Jobs are lost daily, those of us that have jobs are pinched with gas costing 3 times what it should, some cannot afford to drive to find a job. It is really ridiculous and all due to Republican greed.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-08 00:33 by LSTNT.

Yes gas prices are high in Europe and, in particular, the UK.

So we have adjusted our behavior and now buy more fuel economic cars. Deisels are very popular now and my car is pretty fuel efficient. I can get 55 - 60 mpg if I drive carefully (stick to the speed limits - 60 - 70 mph) but normally do around 45 mpg if I put my foot down (90 mph on the motorway). The car's not a tractor either - the Germans know how to make nice cars that aren't too thirsty!

The main difference of the new fuel price crisis is that I've noticed myself driving more carefully more often - not a bad side effect at all!

My next car will be a BMW as they are even better for fuel economy. Check out the latest BMW turbo deisels!

However, the fuel price will hit people in other ways. Food and utilities costs will be hit, public transport prices ill increase, flight fuel charges will increase, inflation will take a grip and, therefore, interest rates will go up. Credit card bills will be higher and, therefore, interest on the stones tickets we all by will be a bigger hit. If that happens, I will have less cash to spend on a stones tour.

All that said, I don't think the fuel price would be the main reason for any hesitation on the Stone's part to tour. The credit crunch might bight but I reckon that they'll go on tour anyway. Perhaps we'll go back to non-seated stadiums at a reasonable price in order to make sure they sell out.

I saw gas last night in Illinois for (all US dollars) 4.29 a gallon. Diesel is either around 4.70 something cash or 4.80 something credit card (because of the 3% credit charge).

Near Kentucky they were giving it away - 4.05 a gallon.

The price crunch is not something that can be dealt with instantly. All these green types are screaming about hybrid this and that and 50 mpg but...who the hell can afford them?

It's all a joke. I will continue to spend 100 something a week for - who the hell lives within 20 miles of their job? Gazza, what planet are you on? In the New Orleans region about half the people drive about 70 miles a day round trip for work. A lot of them in SUVs, vans and pick up trucks.

What gets me is - with all the bitching about gas prices, no one is driving like it. I have slowed down, keep the A/C on low, cruise control, etc...but I still see Hummers and big SUVs with one person (usually on a cell phone) driving horribly - speeding up, slowing down, speeding up etc...

Nobody is driving like it hurts.

So until people start driving like it hurts, I just laugh at people who complain.

Skipstone, I too drive more carefully, coast more, cut the speed, don't drive unless I have to; by the way, you can keep the AC on, I read in more than one place that in the more modern vehicles, the AC does not adversely affect gas mileage, or use more gas. Don't sweat it any more than you have to.

I don't need to use it too much actually. If it's warm I'll crank it for a bit and then just take the button off, leave it on recycle and it stays nice and cold. I get about the same mileage, it seems, running it on low. I drive a Sierra.

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skipstone
It's all a joke. I will continue to spend 100 something a week for - who the hell lives within 20 miles of their job? Gazza, what planet are you on? In the New Orleans region about half the people drive about 70 miles a day round trip for work.

Planet Earth, last time I checked. I work 5 miles from my house. Thats kinda normal when you live in a city. Plenty of people I work with have a round trip of 70-90 miles per day to and from work, and most get there by car.

Point being all this talk of people driving long distances to and from work is hardly unique to the US, where petrol is (from the prices you just quoted) still barely half what it is in Europe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-07-08 00:16 by Gazza.

Maybe they'll release "Petrol Gang".

Hey, LSTNT, it is not JUST LIBERALS who care about the environment, or at least I hope it's not! That being said, building a few refineries in the USA can and should be done quickly, and I am a LIBERAL who believes in compromise. Sounds like you're just defending the indefensible Bush administration to me. His practices are corrupt, illegal and immoral and even the Republicans I know are now saying that it's TRUE! You can only go so far as a HUMAN BEING with a thinking brain in trying to cover up the things his administration has managed to do, while totally ignoring the Constitution. Enough!

The number of people on this planet who can't afford a car - let alone the gas - is in the majority. And even travel by public transport in much of Europe costs more than the equivalent journeys by car in places like the USA.

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mickschix
I read in more than one place that in the more modern vehicles, the AC does not adversely affect gas mileage, or use more gas. Don't sweat it any more than you have to.

Take it from someone in the business, when you flip that A/C on, the engine starts driving the A/C compressor and it takes fuel to do that.
Granted, improvements have been made to make them more efficient, but it still takes fuel to drive the compressor.
What you probably read was that highway driving with the A/C on burns the same amount of fuel as highway driving with the A/C off and windows down, or even less depending on your particular vehicle.
The aero drag created on the highway with windows down tends to burn more fuel than the drag on the engine created by the compressor.
I, personally, don't bother with A/C on short trips when I stay below 45mph, unless I'm trying to impress a new GF!

LSTNT makes a good point about Anwar and no I'm not saying the liberals are the only ones to blame. There is enough stupidity on both sides. The greedy oil companies can cut into their own profits too. They make enough money.

Debra we all know you hate Bush but there is plenty of blame to go around with most issues. He doesn't single handedly control everything like some Svengali. Who were you blaming in the late seventees when the economy was in the toilet and you had gas shortages? Bush?

Drilling anywhere does not solve the problem. It would take forever for those things to get done yet alone cost a fortune. It's not even throwing a life jacket to someone who might be drowning, it's throwing a bucket with a hole in it in the Gulf Of Mexico.

Unless it's below 92 and breezy, I don't drive without the A/C on in SE Louisiana or the Gulf Coast because it's too hot when you get to 95 or so. And if you're parked in the sun well then it's well into the 120s or so, in or out of the truck.

Or in my case, when I drive a friend or two around, they are such wusses I have to turn the A/C on. Even if it's a cool 85 degrees out.