Wow. I had no idea how deep the sentiments of the Europeans ran counter to Israel.

Naw, it's not about Europeans or Americans, it's about RIGHT and WRONG.... and it's NOT ABOUT Israel, it's about the Israeli Government (which is out of control like the US Government). There's some cool people in Tel Aviv that hate their Government and just want to live in peace , side by side, with the Palestinians - give the stolen land back... I know, I've meet many of them, talked to them for hours at this or that cafe in Tel Aviv.... BTW, Bingo lives in NYC and I live in L.A. but also part time in Paris (when the dollar is stronger). I know Bingo would like to live over seas but has family and business considerations.... VL13, you like to label groups of people eh? Europeans, Muslims, etc. etc. Do ALL blacks think the same? Do ALL Arabs think a like? Do ALL Jews think a like? No, No, and No.... it's easy to put EVERY group into one box, easier to dehumanize them - The Nazi's were good at that.... To say Israel is all good and "The Muslims" are all bad is beyond simplistic (and totally false) I wouldn't even use crayons on that one.....

Crayons " Good idea !
I think some folks who've expressed opinions within this thread would be kept better amused with a little " colouring in"...or maybe they'd prefer to play in the sand pit ?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-06-10 18:57 by Spud.

I never said I was labeling groups Helter, just voicing my opinions like you. It seemed to me that there was much opposition on here, even in Europe, against Israel, and I would not have expected that given the history of the region. But obviously wtf do I know?! I've never met a bad Jew, some I don't like but not a bad one. Most of my dearest friends are Jews. I would lay down my life for any cause that upheld their lives and prevented another Holocaust. But I'll be damned if I ever fight in a US-led war that backed our interests in keeping our own corporate interests in oil well secured.

I'm sorry I've rankled so many people here, but then most seem to also be backing Obama and the same ol same ol.

Perhaps one day I'll revisit.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-04-15 16:37 by VoodooLounge13.

Great post, Kahoosier! I totally agree! And FROM 4, have some faith, will ya?? GEE! Hillary is not an ogre! She will campaign for Obama, not to worry. Didn't you listen to her concession speech Saturday? It was awesome, powerful, optimistic, full of positivity and much admiration for Obama. MIck may not have been wrong after all but not because Obama will be shot but because she is still young enough to run again, and WIN! Mick may have a crystal ball and was loking into the distant future!! Those that wish ill and hope Obama will die are the typical REDNECK BOZO brand of voter in the USA! We have a few, note the 2000 and 2004 elections( ALTHOUGH THOSE OF US WHO HAVE A WORKING BRAIN KNOW BUSH STOLE BOTH ELECTIONS!) The Democrats will unite, we will win, McCain will disappear, God willing, and some kind of normalcy and positivity will return to the USA as jobs return, we find alternative sources of oil and Republicans stay out of power, 4-ever! STill, it will be a long time coming but it will take a long time to screw up again. ( distorted CSN quote)

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VoodooLounge13
I never said I was labeling groups Helter, just voicing my opinions like you. It seemed to me that there was much opposition on here, even in Europe, against Israel, and I would not have expected that given the history of the region. But obviously wtf do I know?! I've never met a bad Jew, some I don't like but not a bad one. Most of my dearest friends are Jews. I would lay down my life for any cause that upheld their lives and prevented another Holocaust. But I'll be damned if I ever fight in a US-led war that backed our interests in keeping our own corporate interests in oil well serucred.

VL13, No, you never SAID you were labeling groups, you just WERE labeling groups - no need to SAY anything. Here you do it again, I never meet a "BAD JEW". Another opinion about an entire group of people, be it positive or negative. Speaking about Good or Bad Jews you should watch the Roman Polanski interview that comes with the deluxe version of "THE PIANIST" DVD. Here's a Polish Jew , who's mother died in the AUSHWITZ Concentration Camp, who hide all over KRAKOW, POLAND as a young child while the Nazi's tried to hunt down all Jews (and others) during the invasion in WWII. POLANSKI says in the DVD interview, "There are good Jews and bad Jews, There are good Poles and bad Poles, there are good Germans and bad Germans. This is what I learned during the War. Many would help us at the risk of loosing their own lives - it's not a black and white issue" The MAN KNOWS, he lived it so I'll listen to him.

BTW, PLEASE don't even start that whole "Israel is such a victim" stuff with me, CAPISCE ??? I'm SO sick of that game. A few years ago the Israeli Army bombed Beruit for DAYS and DAYS, all kinds of innocent people who have NO CONTROL WHAT-SO-EVER over their Government (just like America). So, in the course of all this bombing thousands of innocent Lebanese people died as their high rise apartment buildings collapsed from bomb after bomb - total OVERKILL. As the rest of the world protested, America just looked the other way. It was SO WRONG, SO IMMORAL and evil so let's back off on the "good and bad" lingo, anybody is capable of anything, humans are humans (and there are no "super humans" so put the comic book thinking away back into "comic book" land) You never met a "Bad Jew"? try getting to know some of the super conservative Politicians in the Israeli Government.... you'll find some, just like any other group, race, religion, country, nationality, etc. etc..... Yeah, I have Jewish friends too (and they agree with me on these points since they're clear thinking liberals that put PEACE AND HARMONY first - ALWAYS FIRST) - so BFD, what else is new.....War Mongers ALWAYS win cause thats were the big bucks are (and war is AL ABOUT making big money - always has been about BIG MONEY !!! Be it obvious or hidden, don't be fooled so easily my friend) Cheers for now, SALAM and SHALOM - Peace x 2 (ISMAEL the Muslim and ISSAC the Jew - the 2 Sons of Abraham - Isn't THAT interesting) ...

Mickschix (Debra?) You may have missed this so here it is from the other page with some added extras

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HelterSkelter
OBAMA, HILLARY, McCAIN..... What if it's all a smoke screen to keep the population fighting with each other, what if it's all just a distraction?? What if this is REALLY what's going on.....





INTERVIEW WITH RIZ KHAN - LONG, MORE DETAILED VERSION




If this is really what's going on than we'd have Wars based on false information and lies, Multi National Corporations and the Military Industrial Complex running the country (owning all our politicians), we'd have stolen elections, paperless voting machines that can be hacked into by High School computer genius kids, We'd never be able to get universal health care for the citizens, we would dumb down our citizens with mindless television programs and 24/7 celebrity worship, we would have most of our public schools falling apart..... see, non of this is happening so Perkins can't be correct... just another fake left wing nut job planted by some super liberal group to throw off that group of people in America that know EXACTLY what's going on.... You know, the one's that can't be fooled (glad I got hip to that sneaky little trick)... "FOOL ME ONCE, SHAME ON..... SHAME ON ...... FOOL ME ONCE..... SHAME ON....... AHHH, ... WON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN"

At almost CONSTANT WAR in one conflict or another, be it secret or announced, since The KOREAN CONFLICT/WAR in the 1950's ?? Seems like Someone else is already in charge to me. We fight an awful lot considering we NEVER get attacked (except 9/11). I thought Democracy's were suppose to be peaceful, hmmmmm

WHO'S THE NEXT PRESIDENT ? ...DOES IT REALLY MATTER ? WE SHALL SEE.....



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-06-12 04:29 by HelterSkelter.

..... i dont think the USA is in as much trouble as most of you, and never was

or will be!

When a person has to decide between spending their limited funds on Gas to get to work or Breakfast that sounds like big trouble to me. LUCKILY my financial situation has remanded very stable but that doesn't mean that other people aren't suffering HEAVILY.... And it's not a good feeling to see it... Check the Stats (personal Bancruptcies, Home Foreclosures, Amount of Debt per household, % of Population with no Med Insurance, Unemployment, Price of Gas/Oil, etc, etc..... got news for you soundcheck, we are in BIG TROUBLE.... this FAKE war(Iraq) is costing $5,000.00 A SECOND (not a Minute, not an Hour, or a Day) We're BORROWING 2 BILLION Dollars a DAY !!! Sounds like a bit of OVER spending to me.... but, just only a bit.....

Well I heard that Vanity Fair was going to publish an article regarding some rumours about Bill Clinton and some more recent affairs. Which supposedly include a member of Canadian parliament(shades of mick jagger) and the actress Gina Gershon. I haven't actually read the article. But supposedly Gina Gershon has denied the allegations and Vanity Fair came up just short of making the accusation.....But hey given the choice between Gina Gershon.....Well I'll vote for Hillary....But I'd do Gina. But it may spell doom for Hill's VP chances.

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HelterSkelter
When a person has to decide between spending their limited funds on Gas to get to work or Breakfast that sounds like big trouble to me. LUCKILY my financial situation has remanded very stable but that doesn't mean that other people aren't suffering HEAVILY.... And it's not a good feeling to see it... Check the Stats (personal Bancruptcies, Home Foreclosures, Amount of Debt per household, % of Population with no Med Insurance, Unemployment, Price of Gas/Oil, etc, etc..... got news for you soundcheck, we are in BIG TROUBLE.... this FAKE war(Iraq) is costing $5,000.00 A SECOND (not a Minute, not an Hour, or a Day) We're BORROWING 2 BILLION Dollars a DAY !!! Sounds like a bit of OVER spending to me.... but, just only a bit.....

... you like the plateform, run for office.

Maybe this was already brought up, but does anyone here believe that the Rolling Stones provide a key part in the whole process of "liberalizing" (in the current political sense) countries? For example, when they played the Czech Republic in 1989 they "proved", via the world media, that it was economically viable for western companies to go and take advantage of new markets there? On Four Flicks they try to make it look very romantic, but I'm sure Havel and others thought that they could benefit with that type of media attention that the Stones would attract.

I'm sure this was the case with other eastern nations as well; maybe even when they played in Latin America for the first time in the mid-1990s. Another case would be when the Stones played Spain for the first time in 1981, shortly after the death of Franco.

Helter Skelter, thanks for posting that clip again; very interesting and I do believe it to be true. I have a friend who works on the outskirts, so to speak, of a similar group and he's told me the exact same things! We are all pawns, little puppets and he has claimed forever that it matters not one little bit WHO the president is; they're all controlled by this small group of people, extremely wealthy who pull all the strings. Assassinations are a part of it for sure. I guess we are luckier than most here in the USA; the powers that be will always wage immoral wars, continue to kill innocent people, wipe out populations for that countries resources! ALL TRUE!

Mick is making a quick joke about The Clintons at the Beacon show and some use that as an excuse to promote their own personal political opinions. How sad. Why can't we just leave it up to Mick to have a few jokes every now and then? Why is it so important for some people to talk politics, which means their access might be closed and threads on IORR closed/deleted? I told you once and I told you twice, but you never listen to my advice...

Bjornulf

With all due respect, Bjornulf, it is not sad at all to express yourself in a place where you feel safe and secure, like here at IORR. No one was out of hand and as you said, Mick started it! One of my favorite quotes is one from Martin Luther King Jr, and he said " our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter". I commend you for NOT closing this thread. It has been very enlightening.

Hey Debra, this is for you:

hey wasn't the reality is that Margaret Trudeau trysted with Ronnie and not Mick?

Hey Sicilian, that was so cool! I laughed myself off my chair!! Thanks for the best laugh I've had in a very long time!!