I can´t imagine a more contradictionary album than Black and Blue is. Two classic, masterpieces (memory m, fool to cry), a few mediocre songs (hot stuff, hand of fate and crazy mama) and those flops, cherry oh etc.

Just out of curiosity and being too young at the publication date, what was the reaction of fans or "general" public?
Farewell to blues-oriented r´n´r?
Did it sell well?
And what was the attitude of the rock journalists?

I´d appreciate if someone could enlighten my curiosity. Thanks!

It was generally panned. Though I did see one review in a major music magazine (forget which one) which said it was a classic and rated it as great as EOMS.

How about MM and FtC?

any positive about those or any other individual song?

for example:

More blatantly imitative of black-music rhythms and styles than any Stones album since December's Children,
and also less original (if more humorous) in the transformation, this nevertheless takes genuine risks
and suggests a way out of their groove. Lots of good stuff, but the key is Hot Stuff, pure Ohio-Players-go-to-Kingston
and very fine shit, and the high point Fool to Cry, their best track in four years. Diagnosis: not dead by a long shot. A-
- Robert Christgau, Consumer Guide (Creem), 1976

from [www.timeisonourside.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-28 11:48 by with sssoul.

Thank you both,

Would it be too intimate to ask,

Did you have to defend yourselves as being a fan of a ROCK band after B´nBlue?

Too young to defend myself back then but today? Love the album and for me one of their most mysterious. You couldnt find a copy (LP) in 1989 without trying real hard. In Stockholm. Hot stuff is one of their best songs. Live, in 1976, at Knebworth: look, listen and learn how to be Keith. The way he just chews on the riff, sings and blows that smoke at the same time. Punks were a threat in 76-77? Nah, I dont think so.

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wesley
Thank you both,

Would it be too intimate to ask,

Did you have to defend yourselves as being a fan of a ROCK band after B´nBlue?

No, I didn't because no one of my age was interested in the Stones then anyway. It was all KISS or Peter Frampton

The general reaction in the UK was one of shock that the Stones had blanded out and lost their rock'n'roll edge. As far I can remember it was Cherry Oh Baby which did all the damage. There was a distinct anti-reggae feeling among many middle class rock fans which harkened back to it being the skinhead music of choice back in the late 60s and early 70s. And all this despite the arrival of Bob Marley as an emerging cross cultural musical force. The same prejudice was aimed at Led Zeppelin when they did D'Yer Mak'er on Houses Of The Holy. Cherry Oh Baby wasn't the Stones' greatest cover version, that's for sure. There was also the feeling that Black and Blue wasn't a bona fide Stones album because of the use of session men like Harvey Mandel and Wayne Perkins. The inclusion of softer songs like Memory Motel and Fool To Cry also upset the rocker Stones fans.
However, I loved it from the start. Hand Of Fate is one of their most underrated songs in my opinion and I'd love to see them do this again. In hindsight it is a dark and mysterious album that stamps its r'n'b/funk credentials from the start on Hot Stuff. Put on this album at the right party or the right time - preferably at the beginning of a hot summer night and it really sets a mood.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-28 13:26 by Silver Dagger.

Loved it when it came out..Love it now

Learned to slow dance with FTC and was hypnotized by a skateborder who won a freestyle contest at the Long Beach Arena dancing to Hot Stuff (front wheels never touched the ground) Just magic.

Love the lyrics to Hand of Fate and Memory Motel, How can one not love Melody??
Mueve las caderas, Hey Negrita....Big fan of all Stones raegge songs, so that includes Cherry Oh Baby.

I also like a lot both the cover and the inner cover.

Memory Motel anytime. Their best "ballad".

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Silver Dagger
T
However, I loved it from the start. Hand Of Fate is one of their most underrated songs in my opinion and I'd love to see them do this again. In hindsight it is a dark and mysterious album that stamps its r'n'b/funk credentials from the start on Hot Stuff. Put on this album at the right party or the right time - preferably at the beginning of a hot summer night and it really sets a mood.

<<<<<--- the above mentioned will be done!><
Now, I find this album the most "useful" while driving my car.. Have to tease my closest friends with playing it at BBQ party this summer

>> Did you have to defend yourselves <<

nope. i'd given up trying to "defend" digging the Stones way way earlier than that,
and anyway there was nothing strange about the Stones doing dance music.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-28 15:31 by with sssoul.

Fool To Cry is one of the few Stones songs I really hate.
But there are some great songs on Black and Blue

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Wesley
a few mediocre songs (hot stuff, hand of fate and crazy mama)

mmmm, do you really think of those songs as mediocre?

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DandelionPowderman

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Wesley
a few mediocre songs (hot stuff, hand of fate and crazy mama)

mmmm, do you really think of those songs as mediocre?

Yes, I´ve started to like all of them, esp. HoF. I´ve just listened yesterday the whole album, twice..

How do you rank them?

Generally classed as a disappointment at the time. Really like it now, though 'Melody' is too much Billy Preston and not enough RS. If I wanted to play a BP track I could get his albums.


The cover and the gatefold photos are great and had the poster up on my wall for a long time.

However it did give ammo to the upcoming punk scene when they talked of dinosaurs. The songs were not sharp enough, lacked edge, only 8 of them. Not good enough then, but Jagger's correct when he says sometimes the songs (post Exile) have to live a few years before people come around.

Always like 'Memeory' and absolutely love 'Hot Stuff' and 'Negrita' now.

Tings and times!!

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Wesley
How do you rank them?

Hot Stuff and Hand Of Fate are classics. Crazy Mama is a good rock tune.

Yeah it got rather panned. Material asside,the thing I found odd about it back then was that the sound was too accessible. The arrangements weren't as deep and dark..and it consequently lacked the usual "menace."

as i bought the majority of my stones albums in a 2 year period from 1987-89 it was hard not to compare album to album so black and blue wasnt my favourite although i was impressed by the sound quality

but i felt 8 songs wasnt enough especially as half of the album was weak, it really needed another 3 or 4 good songs to give the album more meat, but i loved crazy mama and memory motel, can see why people like hot stuff and hey negrita although its not my cup of tea, thats the thing about the stones, they seem to make music to suit most tastes.

HOT STUFF was the rage in the Philly area and played all the time in both clubs and on the radio...a lot of the girl fans also loved fool to cry as well..

i loved it...hand of fate was my and still is one of my fav rockers.
the album went to #1 in the USA...so a lot of us fans loved it..

Fool to cry was a reaL smash hit at the time but theother songs were rather disappointing. But at least the Stones came to Europe in 1976 and were still legendary (although regarded as old even then).

I remember buying the first bootleg from Fankfrut in colored vinyl. Although the sound was really bad the record looked spectacular and you had the feeling that you had bought a really important sound document.

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wesley
I can´t imagine a more contradictionary album than Black and Blue is. Two classic, masterpieces (memory m, fool to cry), a few mediocre songs (hot stuff, hand of fate and crazy mama) and those flops, cherry oh etc.

Just out of curiosity and being too young at the publication date, what was the reaction of fans or "general" public?
Farewell to blues-oriented r´n´r?
Did it sell well?
And what was the attitude of the rock journalists?

I´d appreciate if someone could enlighten my curiosity. Thanks!

It was slaughtered.

I had heard of the album, but couldn't find the album in 1980 while in college. I climbed through dorm room window to borrow it from a guy I heard had it, who was away for the weekend. I taped it onto a cassette and listened to it, stunned that it was the Stones. I had heard Fool to Cry of course, but that was it. Memory Motel was what grabbed me after the first couple listens and I played it to death.

I told the guy after the weekend that I had snuck into his room to borrow Black and Blue and he understood being a Stones fan. His favorite was Melody and he said his favorite line was:
"I was looking for her high and low like a rooster for a hen."

I then played that song to death, and it turns out is the line is actually:

"I was looking for her high and low like a mustard for a ham"

but I thought the "rooster for a hen" line would have been great.

It might have been panned, but the Glimmer Twins laughed all the way to the bank. It went straight to Number One. It's one of their best albums, has a sensational production mix, different types of music. It's the best party album they ever released.

What the f((k do the critics know anyways???

can´t tell you anything about the general reaction, but just my reaction: i would say a mediocre stones album, way too short with only 8 songs. i personally like almost all of them with the noteable exception of crazy mama (one of the few stones rockers i dislike) and fool to cry (way too long

I sort of agree about Crazy Mama. It sounds like "ordinary" rock music. lacks the usual tense timing and syncopation.

I love about 1/2 this album and put it above a lot of the stuff on IORR. I was only 2 years old when it came out... but I do remember someone showing me a positive review of it from back in the day (as they trashed the hell out of Zep's Prescence, released less than a month earlier.)

[thepowergoats.com]

It was certainly slaughtered by NME's Charles Shaar Murray who, for his 'sins', was subjected to some particularly nasty intimidation from the Stones' camp a few week's later, during his coverage of their tour opener in Franfurt.

In an article enitled, "Too Stoned To Roll", he described how, during an interview with Keith, a piece of paper was handed to the guitarist, informing him as to who Murray was and what he had said about Black & Blue. Having then met with some particularly vitriolic abuse from Jagger and Richards, the NME scribe was subsequently warned in no uncertain terms, that his presence was no longer desired and that if he didn't quite understand that sentiment, a gathering mob of heavies would do their best to help.

However, with the Stones camp generally oblivious to the changing mood of the kids on the street, and to the incredible shift in power towards the music press at that time, they had no idea that NME had actually been in the process of fattening them up for the slaughter, and just weeks later, in Mick Farren's famous "Titanic Sails At Dawn" article, would cite them as 'Exhibit A' in a case against the so-called music establishment. The case being that all of the established, pampered, FM-friendly old farts had finally began to disappear up their own backsides and should be replaced by the growing hoardes of new kids on the block.

For some time at least, the music press had the Stones (and quite a few others) very much on the run, with Jagger & Richards having to start playing ball.

Nowadays of course, they'd have simply had Charles Shaar Murray shot.

In the meantime, here's a more 'friendly' perspective from, would-you-believe-it, Keith's biographer, Barbara Charone, as reproduced from Sounds:







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-04-28 19:29 by LOGIE.

hand of fate is a very good tune imho, kicked ass live i thought, in 76 that is, not the licks version, to laid back

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melillo
hand of fate is a very good tune imho, kicked ass live i thought, in 76 that is, not the licks version, to laid back

Jagger's complete #$%&-up of the lyrics helped nary a hair. He phoned that one in without trying!

[thepowergoats.com]