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Technically, the appeal would be limited to us, The Stones diehards. But you'd be surprised at what a well chosen, properly packaged, presented and publicized outtakes collection would do for the band's profile. If the record company - say Ryko - managed to make it a big media item, as they did for The Beatles anthology - complete with a documentary - then the potential could be huge.
Unfortunately, thanks to the internet, the sales would be limited to the sort of people who still pay for their legitimate releases.
The potential is very limited, the general public only wants the old songs, over and over again, no interest on unreleased tunes (the opisite being the Beatles Anthology) or live renditions from 35 years ago, worse it will be very priced. The fanbase will but it, but it would not sell more than 200,000 copies worldwide, even with a nice package.
Well, I for one can well imagine that rock's master tactitian and business man has this well under control - especially as, with good reason, he believes he will be the last to go.
And who says the lyrics to ER part 2 would be a bust? ;-)
I have a feeling there has been very, very little interest by the band up to this point in opening the vaults. Heck, they are still a live, functioning band. Once they retire/die we will see the vaults open. If you read Ronnie's book he states on several occasions he has a large collection of outtakes when people recorded at the Wick, etc. He writes that he will one day release it all.
Ummm, no, I was using The Beatles Anthology as an example - the Anthology as Analogy.
Everything is possible! If the story is true that according to Jagger the mastertape of Too Many Cooks was located under Lennon's short-time lover May Pang's bed, then it is indeed possible that some great stuff is not there where it usually belongs - in safe, well-climated storage rooms.
Two decades ago, I heard a story that Radio Luxembourg once threw their record and tape archive into the dustbin like useless trash when they closed their facilities in Luxembourg. Check Nico Zentgraf's site for more infor about what Stones material Radio Luxembourg once broadcasted - BBC recordings, radio sessions exclusively produced for Radio Luxembourg from the early sixties, but also live concert recordings from 1972 for instance ... gone. Unless other copies of this material exist somewhere else. But even the BBC has only a small fraction of their recordings in their archives.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-21 13:40 by retired_dog.
You must be kidding!
To me it's just the right thing to do. When they're still going strong it wouldn't make much sense to release it (Because it cannot be complete). Granted they could start with a boxed set for a period of time (Like The Vaults 1962-1972). My problem here is that while there's great interest in a vault release from the early days, it woouldn't be the same with a Vaults 1989-2008 set. And that's too bad. I think people needs to see their discography as a whole instead of, like most Danish people do, see them purely as a sixties act. A box set that spans all years could help that. And if the people aren't clever enough to see them as a band that evolved from 1962 to 1012, you could kindda force them by releasing a complete career spanning vaults box set.
JumpingKentFlash
That certainly depends. When the tickets went on sale for Horsens, you could not find ANY Stones in the stores anywhere. Everything was ripped from the shelves. I even went to the town's second-hand CD shop, and there was nothing.
JumpingKentFlash
er..yeah.. but theyre not playing there every week. i doubt its the same the rest of the year or when theyre not touring
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The Vaults
Posted by:
VoodooLounge13
()
Date: February 20, 2008 19:49
There is always so much talk about what's in the vaults still and what that value brings to a record deal, but given how relevant the band seems to be these days, dare I pose the question of: Other than those of us die-hards who will gobble up everything, who the heck else nowadays is going to care about what is being released from 40+ years?
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
ablett
()
Date: February 20, 2008 20:05
Making rare tracks, studio or live, remastered by the artist (if possible) in a superb package at a good price available to 'hardcore' fans or music lovers will always sell reasonably well.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
David Neal
()
Date: February 20, 2008 20:30
wish they would get their s h i t together and release stuff already...everyone has a wish-list that i'm sure is similar
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:12
I would tend to think the same reason all other box sets have been released - because at some point someone will buy one. I have friends that I never knew liked Elvis - they bought the first 2 of that 3 box set deal.
And with 'box sets' leaning towards being just downloads anyway - I would certainly think there will always be hard copies available - it would be a cinch for the Stones (or whoever) to continually release unreleased material over the years.
You think Mick actually said Let's release Rarities? Or was that just a Virgin thing to finish the record deal? Because I don't think they released it thinking they would sell 3 million copies. But I would think at some point it will sell that many. Me, as shoddy as it is, I'm glad they did. For Lonely Nights and Let It Rock. And Harlem Shuffle. It's just too bad they put all that other previously released crap on there. Why not the London One Hit? And so on. Things that only exist on vinyl - which is what was so great about Lonely Nights and Let It Rock...IT WAS RARE.
And with 'box sets' leaning towards being just downloads anyway - I would certainly think there will always be hard copies available - it would be a cinch for the Stones (or whoever) to continually release unreleased material over the years.
You think Mick actually said Let's release Rarities? Or was that just a Virgin thing to finish the record deal? Because I don't think they released it thinking they would sell 3 million copies. But I would think at some point it will sell that many. Me, as shoddy as it is, I'm glad they did. For Lonely Nights and Let It Rock. And Harlem Shuffle. It's just too bad they put all that other previously released crap on there. Why not the London One Hit? And so on. Things that only exist on vinyl - which is what was so great about Lonely Nights and Let It Rock...IT WAS RARE.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Nikolai
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:14
Quote
VoodooLounge13
There is always so much talk about what's in the vaults still and what that value brings to a record deal, but given how relevant the band seems to be these days, dare I pose the question of: Other than those of us die-hards who will gobble up everything, who the heck else nowadays is going to care about what is being released from 40+ years?
Technically, the appeal would be limited to us, The Stones diehards. But you'd be surprised at what a well chosen, properly packaged, presented and publicized outtakes collection would do for the band's profile. If the record company - say Ryko - managed to make it a big media item, as they did for The Beatles anthology - complete with a documentary - then the potential could be huge.
Unfortunately, thanks to the internet, the sales would be limited to the sort of people who still pay for their legitimate releases.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:18
Ummm, The Beatles Anthology series was Apple/Capitol/EMI Records. Not Ryko. Is that what you meant?
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
georgelicks
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:28
Quote
VoodooLounge13
There is always so much talk about what's in the vaults still and what that value brings to a record deal, but given how relevant the band seems to be these days, dare I pose the question of: Other than those of us die-hards who will gobble up everything, who the heck else nowadays is going to care about what is being released from 40+ years?
The potential is very limited, the general public only wants the old songs, over and over again, no interest on unreleased tunes (the opisite being the Beatles Anthology) or live renditions from 35 years ago, worse it will be very priced. The fanbase will but it, but it would not sell more than 200,000 copies worldwide, even with a nice package.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:39
Ah, bullshit. I mean, yeah, it won't - it might sell an actual 250,000 individual copies, which means it would go platinum of course har har - IF it was a 4 record set - but initially it would sell really well, to the die hards, and then it would taper off, just as every single box set in history has done.
And hopefully, to me at least, if they were to include some well known tunes on it, it would be either unedited versions or the 12" versions or in some instances both.
I think, given the way that some tunes have been leaked out, there would be enough interest in general to warrant a release. Just putting Never Stop on it would create interest for some people. Me, I'm really interested in the Goats Head Soup, It's Only Rock'N'Roll, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue leftovers. Well, whatever there is from Undercover, all the goodies left off of Dirty Work, whatever got FINISHED but held off Voodoo Lounge and Bridges and then of course whatever from A Bigger Bang.
Well what the hell am I talking about - that's just about everything.
Well well. Whatever!
And hopefully, to me at least, if they were to include some well known tunes on it, it would be either unedited versions or the 12" versions or in some instances both.
I think, given the way that some tunes have been leaked out, there would be enough interest in general to warrant a release. Just putting Never Stop on it would create interest for some people. Me, I'm really interested in the Goats Head Soup, It's Only Rock'N'Roll, Some Girls and Emotional Rescue leftovers. Well, whatever there is from Undercover, all the goodies left off of Dirty Work, whatever got FINISHED but held off Voodoo Lounge and Bridges and then of course whatever from A Bigger Bang.
Well what the hell am I talking about - that's just about everything.
Well well. Whatever!
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Lady Jayne
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:39
Unpleasant to think about but isn't the truth that this material or some of it will be hastily packaged and released following the death of one of the principals when the Stones will be no more, there will be a temporary hike in interest beyond hardcore fans and the survivors will have a final pay day?
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
stone-relics
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:40
Just come to my house...but please call before showing up..I might not have enough Guinness.
JR
JR
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:42
Oh well sure, when one of them dies. That would mean that...the box set or whatever is already done and is just waiting for someone to keel over.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Lady Jayne
()
Date: February 20, 2008 22:50
Quote
skipstone
Oh well sure, when one of them dies. That would mean that...the box set or whatever is already done and is just waiting for someone to keel over.
Well, I for one can well imagine that rock's master tactitian and business man has this well under control - especially as, with good reason, he believes he will be the last to go.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
FrankM
()
Date: February 21, 2008 00:49
Everyone talks about the vaults as if they think there is some huge locked room with treasure chests full of half finished songs the quality equivalent of Jumping Jack Flash and Brown Sugar. I'm not so sure that there is so much great stuff tucked away in "the vaults".
Maybe it will be a bust like when they opened the vault of Al Capone on national tv. You may just find a crumpled up piece of paper with the lyrics for Emotional Rescue part two.
"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.
Maybe it will be a bust like when they opened the vault of Al Capone on national tv. You may just find a crumpled up piece of paper with the lyrics for Emotional Rescue part two.
"Lyin' awake in a cold, cold sweat. Am I overdrawn, am I going in debt?
It gets worse, the older that you get. No escape from the state of confusion I'm in.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
filstan
()
Date: February 21, 2008 00:57
Frank M said:
"Everyone talks about the vaults as if they think there is some huge locked room with treasure chests full of half finished songs the quality equivalent of Jumping Jack Flash and Brown Sugar. I'm not so sure that there is so much great stuff tucked away in "the vaults".
Maybe it will be a bust like when they opened the vault of Al Capone on national tv. You may just find a crumpled up piece of paper with the lyrics for Emotional Rescue part two."
I think there is still a wealth of outstanding audio and video out there that just needs approval from the band and someone to manage the project that can be trusted to restore and release this material. The band just needs to give the ok to move this idea forward. Please let it happen!
"Everyone talks about the vaults as if they think there is some huge locked room with treasure chests full of half finished songs the quality equivalent of Jumping Jack Flash and Brown Sugar. I'm not so sure that there is so much great stuff tucked away in "the vaults".
Maybe it will be a bust like when they opened the vault of Al Capone on national tv. You may just find a crumpled up piece of paper with the lyrics for Emotional Rescue part two."
I think there is still a wealth of outstanding audio and video out there that just needs approval from the band and someone to manage the project that can be trusted to restore and release this material. The band just needs to give the ok to move this idea forward. Please let it happen!
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
StonesBlake
()
Date: February 21, 2008 01:52
Quote
FrankM
Maybe it will be a bust like when they opened the vault of Al Capone on national tv. You may just find a crumpled up piece of paper with the lyrics for Emotional Rescue part two.
And who says the lyrics to ER part 2 would be a bust? ;-)
I have a feeling there has been very, very little interest by the band up to this point in opening the vaults. Heck, they are still a live, functioning band. Once they retire/die we will see the vaults open. If you read Ronnie's book he states on several occasions he has a large collection of outtakes when people recorded at the Wick, etc. He writes that he will one day release it all.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: February 21, 2008 03:52
the vaults i am waiting for are not unfinished rare tracks but rather the live footage from 69-78, such as complete shows on dvd from each of those tours in perfect untouched quality in all its glory, it could happen someday you never know
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-21 03:53 by melillo.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-21 03:53 by melillo.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Lukester
()
Date: February 21, 2008 04:36
.....so the Rock and Roll Circus came from an unexpected vault discovery, right? There has to be other treasures out there, long forgotten, sitting in the attic of a soon to be foreclosed house of some studio technician's mother.....it could happen.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
john r
()
Date: February 21, 2008 07:14
The potential for big immediate sales may be limited, but the Stones' historical importance and longevity means there will be a market for their stuff - especially if curated with care - for decades into the future, just as there is for all major artists from Billie Holiday to Sinatra.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: February 21, 2008 11:41
i have a feeling that even if they release a collection from the vaults it will probably be the same stuff that is already out on bootlegs
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Nikolai
()
Date: February 21, 2008 12:15
Quote
skipstone
Ummm, The Beatles Anthology series was Apple/Capitol/EMI Records. Not Ryko. Is that what you meant?
Ummm, no, I was using The Beatles Anthology as an example - the Anthology as Analogy.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: February 21, 2008 13:40
Quote
Lukester
.....so the Rock and Roll Circus came from an unexpected vault discovery, right? There has to be other treasures out there, long forgotten, sitting in the attic of a soon to be foreclosed house of some studio technician's mother.....it could happen.
Everything is possible! If the story is true that according to Jagger the mastertape of Too Many Cooks was located under Lennon's short-time lover May Pang's bed, then it is indeed possible that some great stuff is not there where it usually belongs - in safe, well-climated storage rooms.
Two decades ago, I heard a story that Radio Luxembourg once threw their record and tape archive into the dustbin like useless trash when they closed their facilities in Luxembourg. Check Nico Zentgraf's site for more infor about what Stones material Radio Luxembourg once broadcasted - BBC recordings, radio sessions exclusively produced for Radio Luxembourg from the early sixties, but also live concert recordings from 1972 for instance ... gone. Unless other copies of this material exist somewhere else. But even the BBC has only a small fraction of their recordings in their archives.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-21 13:40 by retired_dog.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
sf37
()
Date: February 21, 2008 14:13
A peek in the vaults has also given us some great alternate takes on the standard Steel Wheels and Bigger Bang songs, which also included a couple of rarities like "Precious Love". I think that "Precious Love" is a good enough song to sit alongside many of their albums, so I think there is always the potential that another gem could surface at some time, some place. It may not necessarily be probable, but it's certainly possible..........
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: February 21, 2008 14:35
Quote
skipstone
You think Mick actually said Let's release Rarities? Or was that just a Virgin thing to finish the record deal? Because I don't think they released it thinking they would sell 3 million copies. But I would think at some point it will sell that many.
You must be kidding!
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Hound Dog
()
Date: February 21, 2008 15:43
Quote
FrankM
Everyone talks about the vaults as if they think there is some huge locked room with treasure chests full of half finished songs the quality equivalent of Jumping Jack Flash and Brown Sugar. I'm not so sure that there is so much great stuff tucked away in "the vaults".
I think I have heard enough of their outtakes to see that there are plenty of great songs that are worth realize in some way shape or form. And if you are talking live shows, the list is pretty endless with how much great stuff they can release. Don't understand why people think the band has to be done to release this stuff. Neil Young and Dylan have been doing it with great success, and the Dead always did the same.
And if people don't think it won't sell, well Zeppelin had a huge hit live album and dvd a few years back, if the Stones do it right and market it the right way they can have the same kind of success.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
JumpingKentFlash
()
Date: February 21, 2008 15:54
Quote
Hound Dog
Don't understand why people think the band has to be done to release this stuff. Neil Young and Dylan have been doing it with great success, and the Dead always did the same
To me it's just the right thing to do. When they're still going strong it wouldn't make much sense to release it (Because it cannot be complete). Granted they could start with a boxed set for a period of time (Like The Vaults 1962-1972). My problem here is that while there's great interest in a vault release from the early days, it woouldn't be the same with a Vaults 1989-2008 set. And that's too bad. I think people needs to see their discography as a whole instead of, like most Danish people do, see them purely as a sixties act. A box set that spans all years could help that. And if the people aren't clever enough to see them as a band that evolved from 1962 to 1012, you could kindda force them by releasing a complete career spanning vaults box set.
JumpingKentFlash
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: February 21, 2008 15:55
No way. the Stones have never been as big sellers as Zeppelin. Zeppelin, like the Beatles, still have the 'mystique' because theyve been 'dead' for such a long time too.
Most people who go to Stones concerts now arent even interested in buying their new, official material. the band's record sales are falling dramatically. No way are they going to be falling over themselves scrambling to buy 30-40 year old cast-offs. Nor old live shows either. Its a very select market, and becoming even more so, as more people get older and lose interest. In a decade or so, the demand for this sort of stuff will be even more minimal.
Neil Young, Dylan and Springsteen for that matter have been more prolific and have had huge amounts of quality studio material in their vaults. I agree with Frank. Whilst I realise that whats been leaked is a fraction of what's in their archives, I've pretty much all the studio material thats in circulation and I simply cant see that its THAT great.
It could be argued that this could be more a reflection on the Stones' ability to know what their best material is than anything else.
Most people who go to Stones concerts now arent even interested in buying their new, official material. the band's record sales are falling dramatically. No way are they going to be falling over themselves scrambling to buy 30-40 year old cast-offs. Nor old live shows either. Its a very select market, and becoming even more so, as more people get older and lose interest. In a decade or so, the demand for this sort of stuff will be even more minimal.
Neil Young, Dylan and Springsteen for that matter have been more prolific and have had huge amounts of quality studio material in their vaults. I agree with Frank. Whilst I realise that whats been leaked is a fraction of what's in their archives, I've pretty much all the studio material thats in circulation and I simply cant see that its THAT great.
It could be argued that this could be more a reflection on the Stones' ability to know what their best material is than anything else.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Silver Dagger
()
Date: February 21, 2008 16:00
I think the Stones should appoint an archivist who can at least get all the stuff they have in the vaults ready for release and sort out getting it all licensed. A contact, Matt Kent, had the job of doing exactly this for Pete Townshend/The Who and unearthed some amazing stuff - full concert footage and unreleased outtakes - that is now waiting to come out. The Stones have to realise that as time goes by there will be less people so keen to hear the rare stuff. Now is the time to bring it out.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
JumpingKentFlash
()
Date: February 21, 2008 16:06
Quote
Gazza
Most people who go to Stones concerts now arent even interested in buying their new, official material. the band's record sales are falling dramatically.
That certainly depends. When the tickets went on sale for Horsens, you could not find ANY Stones in the stores anywhere. Everything was ripped from the shelves. I even went to the town's second-hand CD shop, and there was nothing.
JumpingKentFlash
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Hound Dog
()
Date: February 21, 2008 16:20
Kent this was also the case in South America. A friend of mine was down there and said he couldn't find A Bigger Bang or many other Stones cds around the time of their shows cause they were sold out everywhere. The old live albums in particular where all sound out. But its much different down there, Stones seem to be more relivant to younger people than in the US.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: February 21, 2008 17:05
Quote
JumpingKentFlashQuote
Gazza
Most people who go to Stones concerts now arent even interested in buying their new, official material. the band's record sales are falling dramatically.
That certainly depends. When the tickets went on sale for Horsens, you could not find ANY Stones in the stores anywhere. Everything was ripped from the shelves. I even went to the town's second-hand CD shop, and there was nothing.
er..yeah.. but theyre not playing there every week. i doubt its the same the rest of the year or when theyre not touring
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