Tell Me :
Talk
Guess why.
exactly. what he said.
there will always be a niche market for stuff from the stones vault.
It sold 2.4 million copies according to EMI, about the same number of Undercover and Dirty Work, but those albums didn't get a 2+ year tour behind.
ABB sales were horrible in U.S, their lowest selling album ever there.
And about Rarities, the album didn't reach the 130,000 copies in U.S yet.
THe caps and fanclub memberships... well I think that's just some ingredients they need to make the greedy RS-machinery roll on - I bet none of the 4 Rolling Stones members gives a crap about their actions....I surely don't hope so
You bet the vaults contains live recordings ever since 1969 till now
Give us Glasgow 1971 or 1977...pleeeese
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 13:31 by Erik_Snow.
There's some truth in this. The Vaults require a lot of production work. The finished songs we know include a lot of cover versions which means that songwriting & publishing royalities would go into third party's pockets (Drift Away, We Had It All, Precious Love and the like - not to mention the stuff from the sixties like Key To The Highway, Tell Me Baby, Meet Me In The Bottom and so on).
Then there's stuff that's problematic for other reasons (Claudine), and then there's a load of unfinished outtakes, many of them even without proper lyrics. Live recordings require a proper mix and who knows, even overdubs here and there to get rid of some rough spots and possible technical anomalities.
I believe that there is very little in the vaults that could be released "as is" - just picking the tape from the racks and there you go.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 13:36 by retired_dog.
Jagger is one to look at his bank accounts however. An expanded Deluxe version of Ya Ya's is pretty much an inevitability as far as future vault releases go. Of course, I am wrong about everything else so why not this too.
I am cautiously optimistic that we will see a path forward on the vault releases sooner rather than later. If they want to sign another big record deal, the value is in the back catalog. Even if they were to get fired up about going out in a blaze of rock glory, how many new albums could they realistically have in them?
I'm tired, I'm tired of doing what I'm told.
Things are moving way too slow.
That's why they should play places they haven't played before, mostly.
JumpingKentFlash
you really consider it possible that Jagger allows unfinished vocals getting out? I mean, would you allow that if you were a world-famous singer? and why? just because some fans out there are sick of listening to distorted shitty sounding bootlegs which were not allowed to be out there in the first place?
The difference is that selling boxers and glasses doesn't impact the band as a live entity. Releasing material from the vault does. It kind of says 'yeah we're not looking ahead anymore'. The Stones are clearly not interested in looking back (at this point). Once they truly stop touring, you'll see the band dust off boxes and see what they have acquired. It will just take time.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: February 21, 2008 17:05
Quote
Hound Dog
Kent this was also the case in South America. A friend of mine was down there and said he couldn't find A Bigger Bang or many other Stones cds around the time of their shows cause they were sold out everywhere. The old live albums in particular where all sound out. But its much different down there, Stones seem to be more relivant to younger people than in the US.
Guess why.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 21, 2008 17:53
I must be kidding that Rarities will sell 3 million? Why is that so crazy? Awright - I guess I need to spell it out - eventually around the world. What? That's very reasonable.
I certainly did not mean in the US or UK ALONE or combined.
The UK gold and platinum record count is a load of crap by the way. It doesn't make any sense at all. I've never been able to understand it.
I certainly did not mean in the US or UK ALONE or combined.
The UK gold and platinum record count is a load of crap by the way. It doesn't make any sense at all. I've never been able to understand it.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Gazza
()
Date: February 21, 2008 18:19
I know you meant worldwide. But if ABB isnt going to sell that amount worldwide, then Rarities sure as hell isnt.
Its been out a couple of years and I doubt its worldwide sales are more than a couple of hundred thousand. Cant see how you reckon its going to manage to shoot up into the category of a multi million seller.
Its not exactly a release aimed at the masses. This is a release that charted at #76 in the US even though they toured themselves into the ground there and it was released during the tour in that country. Translate that level of chart performance to other markets, and its not going to sell well...ever. Anywhere.
Unless they find some way of flogging a sequel to 40 Licks, the only Stones albums that will sell 3 million again in this day and age will be one that goes on sale after one of them dies and manages to take advantage of the 'grief' factor.
Its been out a couple of years and I doubt its worldwide sales are more than a couple of hundred thousand. Cant see how you reckon its going to manage to shoot up into the category of a multi million seller.
Its not exactly a release aimed at the masses. This is a release that charted at #76 in the US even though they toured themselves into the ground there and it was released during the tour in that country. Translate that level of chart performance to other markets, and its not going to sell well...ever. Anywhere.
Unless they find some way of flogging a sequel to 40 Licks, the only Stones albums that will sell 3 million again in this day and age will be one that goes on sale after one of them dies and manages to take advantage of the 'grief' factor.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 21, 2008 18:21
I guess I meant something along the lines of how Keith sees any new releases - eventually!
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
iamthedj
()
Date: February 21, 2008 18:27
Before they release the contents of the vaults they should test the waters with products like a complete DVD of all their videos (a la Bowie). A glossy, well packaged, comprehensive over-view of their songs is long overdue. I really can't understand their reluctance to do so as it would take very little effort and make a lot of money.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 21, 2008 18:32
Ha ha
The Rewind video was...it was cool but it didn't have everything. 25X5 was cool but...
You're right. It is time.
It'll never happen.
The Rewind video was...it was cool but it didn't have everything. 25X5 was cool but...
You're right. It is time.
It'll never happen.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 21, 2008 22:19
A Bigger Bang didn't even sell 3 million world wide? That's crazy!
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: February 21, 2008 22:29
Quote
john r
The potential for big immediate sales may be limited, but the Stones' historical importance and longevity means there will be a market for their stuff - especially if curated with care - for decades into the future, just as there is for all major artists from Billie Holiday to Sinatra.
exactly. what he said.
there will always be a niche market for stuff from the stones vault.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
MCDDTLC
()
Date: February 21, 2008 22:51
Hey guys,
If they released the video of Gimme Shelter live from Philly 1972, which supposely was filmed or Midnight Rambler from the 72 or 73 tour to a show like
VH1 as a trailer to a DVD set to be released. I think something like that would
create a stir and peak some interest...
MLC
If they released the video of Gimme Shelter live from Philly 1972, which supposely was filmed or Midnight Rambler from the 72 or 73 tour to a show like
VH1 as a trailer to a DVD set to be released. I think something like that would
create a stir and peak some interest...
MLC
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
stone-relics
()
Date: February 22, 2008 00:54
Nice picture above, with the "Lips Vault". I could play you stuff....
Hehehehe...its good to be the king.
JR
Hehehehe...its good to be the king.
JR
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
georgelicks
()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:19
Quote
skipstone
A Bigger Bang didn't even sell 3 million world wide? That's crazy!
It sold 2.4 million copies according to EMI, about the same number of Undercover and Dirty Work, but those albums didn't get a 2+ year tour behind.
ABB sales were horrible in U.S, their lowest selling album ever there.
And about Rarities, the album didn't reach the 130,000 copies in U.S yet.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
R
()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:32
THERE AIN'T NUTHIN' THERE.
The way the Stones record leaves half finished jams and scraps of musical ideas in the vaults - not songs. The only thing they COULD release would be the same stuff we've been swapping for twenty years anyway.
Boys and girls, we're talking about a band that sells boxer shorts and beer glasses with their logo on them. IF there was music in the vaults that they could cash in on, don't you think they would have done so by now?
The way the Stones record leaves half finished jams and scraps of musical ideas in the vaults - not songs. The only thing they COULD release would be the same stuff we've been swapping for twenty years anyway.
Boys and girls, we're talking about a band that sells boxer shorts and beer glasses with their logo on them. IF there was music in the vaults that they could cash in on, don't you think they would have done so by now?
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: February 22, 2008 01:55
[-
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 02:58 by Erik_Snow.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 02:58 by Erik_Snow.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: February 22, 2008 02:57
Quote
R
THERE AIN'T NUTHIN' THERE.
Boys and girls, we're talking about a band that sells boxer shorts and beer glasses with their logo on them. IF there was music in the vaults that they could cash in on, don't you think they would have done so by now?
THe caps and fanclub memberships... well I think that's just some ingredients they need to make the greedy RS-machinery roll on - I bet none of the 4 Rolling Stones members gives a crap about their actions....I surely don't hope so
You bet the vaults contains live recordings ever since 1969 till now
Give us Glasgow 1971 or 1977...pleeeese
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 13:31 by Erik_Snow.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
ryanpow
()
Date: February 22, 2008 06:26
in order to open the vault, you need to know the combination. the combination is booze. So you just need to somehow get Mick really boozed up and then get him to sign the rights over.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 06:26 by ryanpow.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 06:26 by ryanpow.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
timbernardis
()
Date: February 22, 2008 10:27
If this is as true as a lot of u say -- that the Stones have become mostly miniscule in sales of most of their material, it is interesting that as a live act, they still appeal to enough people to be quite a bit beyond miniscule, you might even still say "big time."
And can this be reduced to say that it is ONLY because most people come to hear the big hits, maybe also some other factors going on here as well.
Of course, their primary appeal has long been as a live act, going back decades, and that part of their history continues unabated.
Ironic, maybe, or maybe just consistent.
I think if I (or they) had to choose continuing to do recorded or live,live is their lifeblood, live would be my choice (along with the occasional new release even if it doesn't get much playing time live).
p
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 10:28 by timbernardis.
And can this be reduced to say that it is ONLY because most people come to hear the big hits, maybe also some other factors going on here as well.
Of course, their primary appeal has long been as a live act, going back decades, and that part of their history continues unabated.
Ironic, maybe, or maybe just consistent.
I think if I (or they) had to choose continuing to do recorded or live,live is their lifeblood, live would be my choice (along with the occasional new release even if it doesn't get much playing time live).
p
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 10:28 by timbernardis.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
retired_dog
()
Date: February 22, 2008 13:35
Quote
R
THERE AIN'T NUTHIN' THERE.
The way the Stones record leaves half finished jams and scraps of musical ideas in the vaults - not songs. The only thing they COULD release would be the same stuff we've been swapping for twenty years anyway.
Boys and girls, we're talking about a band that sells boxer shorts and beer glasses with their logo on them. IF there was music in the vaults that they could cash in on, don't you think they would have done so by now?
There's some truth in this. The Vaults require a lot of production work. The finished songs we know include a lot of cover versions which means that songwriting & publishing royalities would go into third party's pockets (Drift Away, We Had It All, Precious Love and the like - not to mention the stuff from the sixties like Key To The Highway, Tell Me Baby, Meet Me In The Bottom and so on).
Then there's stuff that's problematic for other reasons (Claudine), and then there's a load of unfinished outtakes, many of them even without proper lyrics. Live recordings require a proper mix and who knows, even overdubs here and there to get rid of some rough spots and possible technical anomalities.
I believe that there is very little in the vaults that could be released "as is" - just picking the tape from the racks and there you go.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-22 13:36 by retired_dog.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
highanddry
()
Date: February 22, 2008 14:45
Quote
StonesBlake
Heck, they are still a live, functioning band.quote]
Really?
If so, they are on the performing equivalent of life support.
I honestly don't expect to ever see another full-blown tour by the full band. Pieces of the band, yeah. Not the whole band.
And my guess is that the real reasons why we've not seen archival releases from the vaults is 3-fold:
1. Legal/ABKCO issues
2. Mick's disinterest in the early catalogue
3. The demise of the commercial viability of physical media (vinyl, CDs, etc)
Wish it weren't so...but the fact we couldn't get a full 1969 show/expanded Ya Yas SACD hybrid when the last releases 4 years ago were done ought to be very instructive to all of us.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
brass olive
()
Date: February 22, 2008 15:21
the only "vaults" that would make any cash (if that) would be live concerts from 1972/73....Ya Ya's has been released so they wouldn't do a 1969 show again but perhaps 72/73...we've been in dreamland before...Jagger is not one to look back in life...
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
cbtaco19
()
Date: February 22, 2008 17:49
Quote
brass olive
the only "vaults" that would make any cash (if that) would be live concerts from 1972/73....Ya Ya's has been released so they wouldn't do a 1969 show again but perhaps 72/73...we've been in dreamland before...Jagger is not one to look back in life...
Jagger is one to look at his bank accounts however. An expanded Deluxe version of Ya Ya's is pretty much an inevitability as far as future vault releases go. Of course, I am wrong about everything else so why not this too.
I am cautiously optimistic that we will see a path forward on the vault releases sooner rather than later. If they want to sign another big record deal, the value is in the back catalog. Even if they were to get fired up about going out in a blaze of rock glory, how many new albums could they realistically have in them?
I'm tired, I'm tired of doing what I'm told.
Things are moving way too slow.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 22, 2008 18:11
I won't be but will be surprised if they get another record deal.
And if I was the record label I think a career overview would be excellent. Make it interesting. If a box set isn't to be had, then anthologies would be the way to go. Hard copy or not. And there will always be hard copies available. CD records are still the #1 selling form of media. And there are loads of people out there that collect actual box sets.
Seeing that ABKCO owns anything from Sticky Fingers and 4 from Exile (at least the 4 we know of), they would have to start with anything else from Exile as far as leftovers and obviously after. Let's say it's 1972-1974 for the first anthology. That's a decent amount - considering how IORNR was originally slated to be.
Then the second anth. would be 1975-1979. I know there is a lot to choose from but they've GOT to have finished recordings of all that stuff that's been flying around on bootlegs for so long. The 10 minute plus full version of Slave, Worried About You, some of those LP goodies that were hacked down...as well as all the other goodies...and B-sides. And the good ones, even without finished vocals - just get it out there with excellent audio quality. Dammit. Sick of listening to distorted shitty sounding bootlegs.
The only other extras I am aware of are the Dirty Work leftovers and the Voodoo leftovers. Which I guess would be another anthology.
Of course, NONE of this will ever happen....
And if I was the record label I think a career overview would be excellent. Make it interesting. If a box set isn't to be had, then anthologies would be the way to go. Hard copy or not. And there will always be hard copies available. CD records are still the #1 selling form of media. And there are loads of people out there that collect actual box sets.
Seeing that ABKCO owns anything from Sticky Fingers and 4 from Exile (at least the 4 we know of), they would have to start with anything else from Exile as far as leftovers and obviously after. Let's say it's 1972-1974 for the first anthology. That's a decent amount - considering how IORNR was originally slated to be.
Then the second anth. would be 1975-1979. I know there is a lot to choose from but they've GOT to have finished recordings of all that stuff that's been flying around on bootlegs for so long. The 10 minute plus full version of Slave, Worried About You, some of those LP goodies that were hacked down...as well as all the other goodies...and B-sides. And the good ones, even without finished vocals - just get it out there with excellent audio quality. Dammit. Sick of listening to distorted shitty sounding bootlegs.
The only other extras I am aware of are the Dirty Work leftovers and the Voodoo leftovers. Which I guess would be another anthology.
Of course, NONE of this will ever happen....
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
JumpingKentFlash
()
Date: February 24, 2008 12:08
Quote
GazzaQuote
JumpingKentFlashQuote
Gazza
Most people who go to Stones concerts now arent even interested in buying their new, official material. the band's record sales are falling dramatically.
That certainly depends. When the tickets went on sale for Horsens, you could not find ANY Stones in the stores anywhere. Everything was ripped from the shelves. I even went to the town's second-hand CD shop, and there was nothing.
er..yeah.. but theyre not playing there every week. i doubt its the same the rest of the year or when theyre not touring
That's why they should play places they haven't played before, mostly.
JumpingKentFlash
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
alimente
()
Date: February 24, 2008 17:07
Quote
skipstone
And the good ones, even without finished vocals - just get it out there with excellent audio quality. Dammit. Sick of listening to distorted shitty sounding bootlegs.
you really consider it possible that Jagger allows unfinished vocals getting out? I mean, would you allow that if you were a world-famous singer? and why? just because some fans out there are sick of listening to distorted shitty sounding bootlegs which were not allowed to be out there in the first place?
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
melillo
()
Date: February 24, 2008 21:05
your right, thats why mick should allow a nicely packaged dvd set of shows from the 69 through 78 years and he would not have to worry about it being a bad outtake or an unfinished song, that would be a great vault gift to us all
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
skipstone
()
Date: February 25, 2008 01:03
Well, I'm only saying that because they were allowed to be leaked. So there are instrumental versions of songs - whether Mick sang on them or not I'll never know. But yeah, I am saying release them whether he's sung on them or not. Famous singer or not. Whatever. Damn right, get them out in a decent if not excellent sounding way. Why the fu*ck not?
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
StonesBlake
()
Date: February 25, 2008 02:43
Quote
R
THERE AIN'T NUTHIN' THERE.
Boys and girls, we're talking about a band that sells boxer shorts and beer glasses with their logo on them. IF there was music in the vaults that they could cash in on, don't you think they would have done so by now?
The difference is that selling boxers and glasses doesn't impact the band as a live entity. Releasing material from the vault does. It kind of says 'yeah we're not looking ahead anymore'. The Stones are clearly not interested in looking back (at this point). Once they truly stop touring, you'll see the band dust off boxes and see what they have acquired. It will just take time.
Re: The Vaults
Posted by:
ghostryder13
()
Date: February 25, 2008 03:38
i also wonder what condition the old tapes might be in , they may be destroyed from yrs of neglect
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