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OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 8, 2008 20:03

As a 6th grade teacher (11 and 12 year olds), we're currrently studying WW II, @#$%&, The Holocaust, The Diary Of Anne Frank, etc.

What do I need to emphasize? In other words, what do you think is the most important lessons to be learned from this tragic and world-shaping time?

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: February 8, 2008 20:15

I'm not an expert on history but I think it's important to teach that the events involved real people. It's very easy to de-personalize things after a long time and I think it becomes more relevant when you relate how the events were brought about by people with certain goals or motives, how others were affected and how people respond to events. You are definitely going in that direction by including Anne Frank, and that's what prompts my reply - I saw The Diary of Anne Frank performed as a play at the Stratford Festival here in Ontario several years ago. At intermission the curtain stayed open, the actors in the Annex stopped speaking and continued to move around the stage or sit down and read, and the audience was hesitant to stand up and leave until we realized that the actors, like the people, could not leave the Annex. It was one of the most effective things about the play - to feel them trapped for 20 minutes and imagine that stretching to as many months. Two teen audience members in front of me were very surprised to learn that Anne and most of the others died during the war - they had not known the story. You will get better suggestions from others, but I just wanted to relate that story. Good luck - you sound like a very engaged teacher!

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 8, 2008 20:17

Thanks, T-Girl. The girls in my class are roughly the same age as Anne, so they really seem to relate to her. Any and all suggestions are appreciated.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: February 8, 2008 20:20

Dont follow leaders? Especially not grumpy or hysterical ones.

Anyhow, this thread might be marked as way too ot...
But on the other hand that little stasched warlord occupied
the webmaster country and did let fear and terror rule for several years
and spread death and holocaust over the whole country.
My great grandma did hide jewish people in her basement.
Her son, my grandpa was a resistance man. Like many he
fleas eastwards, and kept up the hope that he one day should be able
to go to England to resist the 3rd Reich occupants from there.
That never happened, but by '44-45 thay were ready to
strike back civil- and military wise.

Millions of people born around 1920 lost their youth,
and we still suffer from this. Those men most often did never
speak about anything else but the war.

The personal level is the best; like Anne Frank.
I could recommend some extra touching conc. camp witness books.
And we must stop the tendensis to blame the current Germans for Adolph.
(I'll pm ya.)

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: February 8, 2008 20:27

Quote
Elmo Lewis
What do I need to emphasize?

To emphasize, you need
to CAPITALIZE or use italics or underline.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: rooster ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:01

You can show them the Shoah Dvd (6 dvds!) but its shocking and heartbreaking...but thats what it was

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:04

Thanks!schillid.

Yeah, I've tried to shock/scare them about The Holocaust.

Bro, I certainly don''t blame any current Germans for @#$%&, the same way I wouldn't want to be blamed for slavery in my country.

"No Anchovies, Please"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-08 21:26 by Elmo Lewis.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:13

Kids should learn from kids, that means that they can empathize
the most with kids of the same age. Look out for biographies of then
young people.

And: Don´t bother your kid with statistics or numbers. Personalize
history. Personalize a victim and an offender.

And: Transfer to today´s world. Where are similar things happening?

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: SomeTorontoGirl ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:13

I've been trying to put my hands on a book about a woman who learned, as an adult, that she is jewish and her parents were Holocaust survivors who fled and hid their history. May be in a box in the basement - but there are many such books and the story of the lives of children of Holocaust survivors can be very interesting. It may be a way to bring the reality forward a generation or two. I have 2 friends whose parents were in the camps - hearing the stories from them made history much more real than anything I was ever taught. If you are interested in looking into that and can't find what you need, you can email.
STG

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: King Snake ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:14

I think you have to keep it from becoming too dramatic though, and keep it fairly objective. Your goal is not to entertain them or touch their souls, it`s to inform them. Their 12 years old, not 6 years old, so I guess they`ll be able to decide the Germans were naughty, so don`t emphasize the evil of the national socialism too much. When I was 12 (I`m 16 now), my history teacher was actually a Jewish man and had lost a lot of family members in the war, but he just told the story as it was and he could just make a joke about things every so often. And Anne Frank`s diary may have historical value, but it`s boring as hell to 2008 kids.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: TooTough ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:18

Never show a 12 year old the Holocaust or Shoah DVDs.

Show him/her a movie or a book made for kids, like this one:



or this one:





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-08 21:23 by TooTough.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Gleb ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:22

as a 15 year old i would say the best way is to show some pictures of holocaust and i think that will get the message across
and be sure to show them some biographies like others said

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:22

'Coz I didnt mean you yourself might blame the current Germans,
but since one of my closest friend is born there, he finally made
me comprehend how the guilt load actually feels for those folks.
It is indeed a common thing, top put the blame there.

Still, you cant avoid the issues of nations, "races", and
people trying to become better, bigger, higher - that elitist
thing. We also have it with blacks and whites from time to time
in various places and with indigenous peoples in i.e the US or Sweden.

If I return to Norway, the Samis were upgraded and accepted
as "trustworthy Norweigans" after their efforts in WW II.
Plus noone knows how many people were saved thru the border
thanks to the "state-less" Sami reindeer herders.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:26

That people in need will do the most INCREDIBLE things and as excuses they blame their neighbors

Nico 1954-20XX

__________________________

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:31

TTough, yeah, we've discussed the current situation in Africa some. I don't know a lot myself, but try to show a current similar situation. Are you a teacher, you have some good ideas.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:39

Quote
Elmo Lewis
TTough, yeah, we've discussed the current situation in Africa some. I don't know a lot myself, but try to show a current similar situation. Are you a teacher, you have some good ideas.

Elmo, is this me who your quoting ?

__________________________

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: rooster ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:40

It happens everywhere....not the same but...its the hate ...thats been spread (just to win votes) than if its normal to blame...its one step to hell

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:43

Nicos, it was really meant for Too Tough, but your quote is good as well.

This thread is what I was looking for (differing ideas) before it gets closed.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Baboon Bro ()
Date: February 8, 2008 21:46

As long as people can let go talkin'bout current politics
I'm not so sure it will be closed.

We're decent, intelligent, democratic people here.

And we have to gather strength till next time the Stones
will made us poor ol' hearts go pumpin' trice its usual speed
like yesterday..... Hope ya find yer formula, Elmo.

Me, I educated some years at university. Slightly different.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: HelterSkelter ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:07

One mistake ALWAYS made about the European portion of WWII is that it was an ENTIRELY Jewish/Nazi only situation when that isn't true at all. Yes, the majority of deaths at the concentration camps were Jewish but there were also tons of Gypsies, Gays, Lesbians, Handicap people, Retarded people. There's a brilliant interview with Charlie Rose and Film maker Roman Polanski (a Polish Jew) on You Tube were he refuses to call what happened in WWII "The Holocaust" because he says WWII was about much more than just "The Holocaust". He also says some similar things in the interview of the deluxe DVD version of THE PIANIST, a brilliant film about survival in the Polish Jewish Getto during WWII and the Nazi invasion of Poland. He says something like "There was no such thing as a "good group or bad group" there were just "good people and bad people". He said that in his personal history of hiding out from the Nazi's he met good Jews and bad Jews, good Poles and bad Poles, and good Germans and bad Germans. I appreciate his high caliber of thinking very much since some of my ancestors died or were horrible victims of the Nazi war machine and my family's not Jewish. This simplistic summary of WWII as a Jewish - Nazi war is really very inaccurate but unfortunately the further we get away from those days the more this will stick as the "Official Line" and once again the accuracy of a major historical event will be destroyed (as was the Kennedy Assassination for example).

SECOND POINT: Always keep an eye on your Government because the more powerful they get the more corrupt and evil they become. It happened in 1930's Germany and it's now happening in 2000's USA as our freedoms are being taken away and FASCISM is slowly creeping in - this isn't a political opinion, this is a simple fact. It all happens VERY slowly, Never overnight. Tell your students to beware because it's here and now it just needs to grow as it will (1 or 2 more terrorist attacks inside the USA and we'll be at full blown fascism)

Show your student THE PIANIST and CHILDREN OF MEN DVD's to show them how it was not to long ago and how it will be someday soon.........

My parent came to America in 1950 (wasn't born yet of course) so I consider myself a European with US papers...... (In response to your thread title)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-08 22:19 by HelterSkelter.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Adi Tyler ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:13

I remember we watched La vita è bella. (IMDb)
It had such an impact we cried our eyes off. But
later on was easier to understand the politics part and all.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:16

Quote
HelterSkelter
(1 or 2 more terrorist attacks inside the USA and we'll be at full blown fascism)

It all sounds so inevitable and fatalistic...

SOMEONE will always be trying to take (y)our right rights away.
It might be so-called fascists within, or extremists on the outside.

Hopefully we'll elect a wise/strong leader in November who can preserve our freedoms while defeating these insane terrorist a**holes.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: gmanp ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:22

Shindler's List movie, maybe?

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:23

Helter, good point that many other groups in addition to the Jews were persecuted.

"No Anchovies, Please"

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: HelterSkelter ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:31

Totally agree Schillid, as one of the brighter guys on IORR you make a fine point. The terrorist thing is one hard nut to crack but the US policy up to now has been about as stupid as one can get. Check out the video on YouTube - "Abu Ghraib - Iraq" into the search (It's too OT AND Horrendous to post here) plenty of never released-to-the-public photo's and once you see the brutality and humiliation you don't have to wonder why Al Queda is getting bigger every day... We have been doing the worst things possible (but the people at the top haven't got a clue as to how to behave properly, this "might is right" thing doesn't fly). Wise leader in Nov.... there seems to be at least one that I can see (maybe I'm being naive but you gotta believe in Hope sometimes)....

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: HelterSkelter ()
Date: February 8, 2008 22:53

Quote
Elmo Lewis
Helter, good point that many other groups in addition to the Jews were persecuted.

Well I don't wanna minimize the Jewish involvement either because that was the center point (especially at the beginning) and then I believe @#$%& just spread out his net... the best thing anyone can do to really feel the impact of the pure horror of what millions went through is to visit the Auswitcz Concentration Camp in southern Poland (not far from Cracow/Krakow). I've been there twice and it's unbelievable how inhumane humans can sometimes be. But people need to see this to see how far evil can go (like the video tapes of the planes hitting the WTC) It's NOT any kind of pleasant trip and I was pretty emotionally effected for weeks but it's something that must be seen if possible. If there's a DVD out on a tour of the place that would really be good for students to see.... people need to know what can happen....

ELMO, I just checked Amazon, if you type in Concentration Camps in the DVD section, there are plenty of choices, I would think about getting one of them for your class....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-02-08 23:09 by HelterSkelter.

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: February 8, 2008 23:06

This thread is getting too political for me...
I'll have to stick with something pc like The White Thread

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: HelterSkelter ()
Date: February 8, 2008 23:12

You're right Schillid - just took some stuff at Itchycoo Park and now the world is beautiful again smiling smiley

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: schillid ()
Date: February 8, 2008 23:15

Quote
HelterSkelter
The terrorist thing is one hard nut to crack but the US policy up to now has been about as stupid as one can get.

After hijacked airplanes crash into buildings and kill thousands of innocent people,
liberals can sound a lot like conservatives, and Democrats can sound a lot like Republicans...

"Meet the new boss... Same as the old boss"

Re: OT- A history question for my European friends
Posted by: gmanp ()
Date: February 8, 2008 23:16

Here's what one school in Tennessee did:
[en.wikipedia.org]

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