Does Keith ever play SFM, YCAGWYW or JJF in Open E/Open D live or are they all in open G (live)?

Don't really know about the early live versions (69-72/3) but usually he always plays these songs in open G as far as I know.

SFM, Tumbling Dice, Happy, JJF in open G, capo on the 4th fret in B and YCAGWYW open G on the 5th fret in C

OK thanks I thought so although its a bit strange that he never tried Open E/D on songs like YCAGWYW or SFM.

It's possible that Keith and Brian may have played JJF using open E tuning at the NME Poll Winners concert in 1968. Brian's fingering positions suggests he at least was in open E tuning.



The r&r circus was in standard tuning and every version I have heard since then has been open G with capo at 4th fret.

I don't think Keith's ever played SFM or YCAGWYW in open D/E live.

By the way, (it's slightly off topic in this thread) but I've always wondered if there's any known recording of the NME poll winners concert. Does anyone know?

Has anyone good tabs for those songs in open G???

great picture! the stones played JJF and Satisfaction at this performance. Is there any way of knowing which song this picture depicts?

Has anyone ever seen a recording surface of that NME first performance of Jumpin' Jack Flash?

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rs1806
Has anyone good tabs for those songs in open G???

Check out Mike's guitar site.

>> I've always wondered if there's any known recording of the NME poll winners concert. Does anyone know? <<

>> Has anyone ever seen a recording surface of that NME first performance of Jumpin' Jack Flash? <<

i reckon a recording exists, but it's not in circulation.

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His Majesty
It's possible that Keith and Brian may have played JJF using open E tuning at the NME Poll Winners concert in 1968. Brian's fingering positions suggests he at least was in open E tuning.

The r&r circus was in standard tuning and every version I have heard since then has been open G with capo at 4th fret.

I don't think Keith's ever played SFM or YCAGWYW in open D/E live.

Keith plays his Custom Les Paul on ALL pictures I have ever seen of the '68 NME gig. So, he played either both songs in open E or both songs in standard tuning. Second, there's pictures of him doing backup vocals, which he did on JJF until '72, and never on Satisfaction. On these pictures his left hand suggests standard tuning. My guess is that keith played JJF in standard tuning on the NME gig.

Mathijs

>> there's pictures of him doing backup vocals <<


- may 12th 1968, courtesy of the Daily Mail archives

>> Keith plays his Custom Les Paul on ALL pictures I have ever seen of the '68 NME gig <<

there aren't many photos of the performance, though, are there

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with sssoul
>> there's pictures of him doing backup vocals <<


>> Keith plays his Custom Les Paul on ALL pictures I have ever seen of the '68 NME gig <<

there aren't many photos of the performance, though, are there

That's true, I've seen only about a dozen I guess.

Mathijs

wow, a dozen?! any hope you could post some of them, please please and thank you kindly?
this is the only other one i've got (besides backstage photos and the one HM posted up there):


- may 12th 1968, courtesy of the Daily Mail archives

I disagree that they show Keith's in standard because he appears to be barring with his first finger, like Brian, with his other fingers off the fretboard, and in the last pic posted he's doing that weird 3rd finger on the bass strings/pinky fretting the high e string.

Just my thoughts, but I guess we'll never really know till we get a copy.

I saw a very short clip of this gig on a UK quiz show during the 90's which consisted of about 10 seconds of the stones and footage of the other acts like The Herd etc.

Thanks for great pics sssoul. Got any more?? this is such an obscure performance! Its my theory that both Keith and Brian are in standard tuning. It seems Brian didnt use open tuning unless playing slide and there seems to be no evidence of Keith using open tunings(except for acoustic numbers) live at this point?(1968). Just my opinion though.

When Brian played slide using open tunings he didn't restrict himself only to using the slide, he sometimes fretted notes with his fingers, during parts of Little Red Rooster and I Wanna Be Your Man for example.

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His Majesty
I disagree that they show Keith's in standard because he appears to be barring with his first finger, like Brian, with his other fingers off the fretboard, and in the last pic posted he's doing that weird 3rd finger on the bass strings/pinky fretting the high e string.

I don't know -that last pic doesn't look like fretting of an open tuned guitar to me.

I'll look up some more pictures.

Mathijs

>> Thanks for great pics sssoul. Got any more?? <<

glad they groove you - like i said those are the only ones i have of the performance.
it'll be brilliant to see some others - thanks Mathijs!

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Mathijs

I don't know -that last pic doesn't look like fretting of an open tuned guitar to me.

I'll look up some more pictures.

Mathijs

But that is a very common Keith thing to do for open E/D. Fretting the bass strings with the 2nd and 3rd fingers whilst fretting the high E string with his pinky, it's all over JJF and Stray Cat Blues. You can also see him use this during the One Plus One film.

But isnt that for open G, the live open-tuning?

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LA FORUM
But isnt that for open G, the live open-tuning?

IF they are in open Tuning at the NME Poll Winners concert, it would be open E.

It would be completely weird and impractical to play JJF using open G tuning with no capo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 19:17 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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Mathijs

I don't know -that last pic doesn't look like fretting of an open tuned guitar to me.

I'll look up some more pictures.

Mathijs

But that is a very common Keith thing to do for open E/D. Fretting the bass strings with the 2nd and 3rd fingers whilst fretting the high E string with his pinky, it's all over JJF and Stray Cat Blues. You can also see him use this during the One Plus One film.

But is Keith really fretting anything with his pinky? It more looks like standard Keith Richards pentatonic riffing, with his pinky tucked way below the high E-string.

What chord would he form with fretting the bass strings with his 2nd and 3rd fingers in open E? Can you tab it?

Mathijs

If Brian is playing JJF in the first photo in the standard tuning barred at the 7th fret part of the riff is played w/middle 4 strings hit open "barred". also if you will review the stones 65 appearance on Ed Sullivan "Little Red Rooster" is played in standard tuning G(see Keith) and Brian is playing slide in standard tuning(by playing middle 4 strings again). So like Mick T. I guess Brian didnt have to be in open tuning to play slide.

just an added question. Does anyone know when Keith seemed to really go to open tuning(5 string especially) on stage? I dont see much of it before "L&G" film. even the Marquee 71 show looks like its mostly played standard on the Plexi guitar?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 19:45 by scottkeef.

1-5 < pinky fretting high
2-x
3-x
4-5 <
5-5 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
6-5 <

The very first chord in JJF is like the above only it's at the 7th fret.

>> even the Marquee 71 show looks like its mostly played standard on the Plexi guitar? <<

yeah, Keith uses the Dan Armstrong for the whole gig, but the Marquee 71 setlist
only included one number that would be normally be in open g anyway, right? (Brown Sugar)
i've heard different opinions on whether he seems to have retuned the Dan Armstrong to open g for it,
or whether he seems to be playing it in standard tuning (which i gather wouldn't be especially tricky).

meanwhile, the Hyde Park JJF sure looks like open g to me:


- JJF at Hyde Park, july 5th 1969 (from Stones in the Park,
screen capture by the very deft BrownEyedGirll)

and when my learned informants like HM say things like "all the versions of JJF after R&R Circus were open g"
i generally understand that they're taking 69 and 70 into account. have some popcorn :E



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 20:22 by with sssoul.

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His Majesty





1-5 < pinky fretting high
2-x
3-x
4-5 <
5-5 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
6-5 <

The very first chord in JJF is like the above only it's at the 7th fret.

You sure? JJF indeed is:

1-7 < pinky fretting high
2-x
3-x
4-7 <
5-7 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
6-7 <

But on your picture I see:

1-5 < pinky fretting high
2-5 <
3-5 <
4-5 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
5-5 <
6-5 <

Mathijs

Quote
scottkeef
If Brian is playing JJF in the first photo in the standard tuning barred at the 7th fret part of the riff is played w/middle 4 strings hit open "barred". also if you will review the stones 65 appearance on Ed Sullivan "Little Red Rooster" is played in standard tuning G(see Keith) and Brian is playing slide in standard tuning(by playing middle 4 strings again). So like Mick T. I guess Brian didnt have to be in open tuning to play slide.

In that first photo all of his fingers are off the fretboard, except for his first finger which is barring at the 7th. No one can say for sure whether he's on his way to fretting those other fingers or not, but it looks as if he's barring with his first only which suggests to me open E tuning.

The 3 versions of JJF from 1968: video/single/r&r circus all avoid the usual standard tuning 'bar band' way of playing it which brings out the C note on the 3rd string during the riff.

In the video for JJF and the r&r circus version Brian plays the riff up at the 2nd fret.

Brian is most definitely using open G for that LRR. He changes guitar from his teardrop to the casino which was sometimes used by Brian for slide during that period.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 20:12 by His Majesty.

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Mathijs

Quote
His Majesty





1-5 < pinky fretting high
2-x
3-x
4-5 <
5-5 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
6-5 <

The very first chord in JJF is like the above only it's at the 7th fret.

You sure? JJF indeed is:

1-7 < pinky fretting high
2-x
3-x
4-7 <
5-7 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
6-7 <

But on your picture I see:

1-5 < pinky fretting high
2-5 <
3-5 <
4-5 < - combination of 3rd and 2nd fingers
5-5 <
6-5 <

Mathijs

I am not fretting the 2nd and 3rd string, the camera angle makes it look that way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-20 20:07 by His Majesty.