I'm having trouble watching the Austin gig from start to end, because of bad playing. There are highlights, don't get me wrong (Bob Willis, Learning The Game, Get Off Of My Cloud), but some of the songs are really bad IMO. The Rio-show is really great. The tossed in performances from rest of the world doesn't grab me. Maybe it's because I've been watching the Saitama gig for so long?

But the Rio gig makes makes it worthwhile.

FF was a party! At least MSG and Olympia. The concept was also better.

About cameras, pictures and filming. I don't like the "you can see my face for about a millisecond, so you won't get to se my wrinckles-shots" of Jagger. Unfortunately, that approach is consistant during BB.

I vote FF mainly beause of the Paris Olympia club gig but ABB is great if only for the Buenos Aires footage - what a crowd! Maniacs

RollingStonesFan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I prefer Four Flicks, too, namely in almost every
> single aspect: song-selection, quality, sound,
> docu etc...
> Why didn't they publish more songs which
> represented the ABB-Tour?
> She Was Hot, Infamy, As Teas Go By, Night Time Is
> The Right Time,...


I don't really understand the song selection on TBB. Not saying it's bad at all (For example JJF from Rio is very asskicking). But I don't understand the omission of the songs you listed. I think the sound qaulity on Austin is way better than anything on FF though.

JumpingKentFlash

I think releasing a ABB DVD after FL was just a joke. What's new for the ones except a few never played sofar songs? Rio most fans already had on (bootleg)DVD while the concert itself is nothing special.

Just another again failed try to make some easy bugs. Did ABB sell over 50,000 copies world wide

Open those vaults.......

kees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think releasing a ABB DVD after FL was just a
> joke. What's new for the ones except a few never
> played sofar songs? Rio most fans already had on
> (bootleg)DVD while the concert itself is nothing
> special.

It wasn't released after Forty Licks. It was released after Four Flicks, Live Licks, A Bigger Bang and Rarities 1971-2003. Nobody should ever plan their releases after what people have on bootleg DVD. It was a different tour than Licks. Something different was in the air.



> Just another again failed try to make some easy
> bugs. Did ABB sell over 50,000 copies world wide

Don't think so. The Biggest Bang is a quality product. It's nothing to do with easy bucks (Assuming you mean bucks/dollars rather than bugs/insects). It would be the same to say that the only reason you have to go to work is to make easy bucks.



> Open those vaults.......

Screw the vaults as long as they're still going. There's really no reason for this. They should wait until they're finished. And by then we should get a vault concert release (Namely a DVD box with a concert footage from the early/mid sixties, a concert from 1969, a concert from 1972, a concert from 1975 and a concert from the No Security tour). Then all their tours would be covered. Would be great to have such a box, but not now - WAIT!!!

JumpingKentFlash

What about a concert from 1978?

They're both awesome. FF is perfect. Only gripe with TBB is minor overdubs but the presentation and overall experience knocks me out (and the neighbours!).

JumpingKentFlash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> kees Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think releasing a ABB DVD after FL was just a
> > joke. What's new for the ones except a few
> never
> > played sofar songs? Rio most fans already had
> on
> > (bootleg)DVD while the concert itself is
> nothing
> > special.
>
> It wasn't released after Forty Licks. It was
> released after Four Flicks, Live Licks, A Bigger
> Bang and Rarities 1971-2003. Nobody should ever
> plan their releases after what people have on
> bootleg DVD. It was a different tour than Licks.
> Something different was in the air.


I agree with this 100%. there is a new feel to this tour and as you said something different in the air. It think it was worth getting. The stones always manage to somehow make it new each time they go out on the road and Biggest Bang reflects that,

JJKent,

The Stones are musically finished, basically after Tattoo You.
Something different in the air? You mean that they played only one song in the end of the tour from ABB? I agree, that is rather special to do.
All tours be covered without their best tour, '78? But wait till they release another mediocre album, play one song of that on tour, and release again a DVD of the tour? My God, how easy some people can be pleased by their heroes.....

FF ist much better, better packing, better documentary, they put more passion in it...

kees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JJKent,
>
> The Stones are musically finished, basically after
> Tattoo You.
> Something different in the air? You mean that
> they played only one song in the end of the tour
> from ABB? I agree, that is rather special to do.

We are all entiteled to have an opinion. In my opinion your point of view proves that you do not have a too refined perception of music. I don't mean to be offensive. Nobody is born knowing everything -

C

kees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JJKent,
>
> The Stones are musically finished, basically after
> Tattoo You.

Not to bicker too much, but have you heard their latest 4 albums mate?
Steel Wheels:
- Terrifying.
- Continental Drift.
- Can't Be Seen.
- Hearts For Sale.

Voodoo Lounge:
- New Faces
- Moon Is Up.
- Thru And Thru.

Bridges To Babylon:
- Anybody Seen My Baby.
- You Don't Have To Mean It.
- Saint Of Me.
- Out Of Control.
- Might As Well Get Juiced.

A Bigger Bang:
- Let Me Down Slow.
- Rain Fall Down.
- Infamy.
- Look What The Cat Dragged In.

These are songs that nobody would have dreamed of them making when they heard Tattoo You. So they've evolved since then (Surprise surprise). I can't think of anybody I know who would have suspected a song like Out Of Control.


> Something different in the air? You mean that
> they played only one song in the end of the tour
> from ABB? I agree, that is rather special to do.
> All tours be covered without their best tour,
> '78? But wait till they release another mediocre
> album, play one song of that on tour, and release
> again a DVD of the tour? My God, how easy some
> people can be pleased by their heroes.....

Actually they played half the album. I agree that they played too few songs from the album per concert (But when the supposed hardcore fans don't like the album, why should they play anything from it? I've certainly heard my share of ABB bashing).
Are you saying that they played exactly the same way on the Licks Tour and the ABB Tour? Come on...

JumpingKentFlash

JKF, it is matter of taste clearly. From the songs you mention, I appreciate only:
Moon - Thru - Anybody - Saint - Juiced - Let me Down - the Cat.

For sure they should have played more songs each night from ABB. Who says ABB is less appreciated by the hard core fans that BTB and/or VL?

The difference between the Licks tour (apart from the great club gigs during Licks) and the ABB tour is for me only:
- Ronnie considerably better during ABB
- Keith considerable less during ABB
- less prominent Chuck in the mix
Jagger and Watts as stable as always

both tours boring set lists

The concept of both is different and complementary; they appear as a nice legacy : London, NY, Paris, Rio, Buenos-Aires, Milan.


> JJKent,
>
> The Stones are musically finished, basically after
> Tattoo You.

Agree in the sense that SMU could be seen as the end of long musical chapter. Better to terminate with that song than Miss You.

<I can't think of anybody I know who would have suspected a song like Out Of Control.>

IMO, you´ve got a point with some other songs, but OOC sounds to me like a remake of a Temptation-track, and that is hardly a surprising move by the stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-12-02 20:33 by DandelionPowderman.

OOC starts out sounding like "papa was a rolling stone" but then it turns into something compleley different. IMO they havent done anything like it before or since.

kees Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JKF, it is matter of taste clearly. From the songs
> you mention, I appreciate only:
> Moon - Thru - Anybody - Saint - Juiced - Let me
> Down - the Cat.

I am really surprised that you don't mention OOC. To me Out Of Control is the best Stones song since SMU. Voodoo Lounge is the best album since Exile. I know that MANY people probably disagree.



> For sure they should have played more songs each
> night from ABB. Who says ABB is less appreciated
> by the hard core fans that BTB and/or VL?

They should've played more, I agree. But that doesn't mean that the tour was bad in any way. From the sound of things (The many threads I've read about it) it sounds like many people didn't think much of the tour because it was called "ABB Tour" and they didn't play many new songs. That's the way it comes off many times. And is a tour bad because of the name? No way. They played many good and different songs on ABB. And half the new album was played. For a sixteen song album, that's not bad.



> The difference between the Licks tour (apart from
> the great club gigs during Licks) and the ABB tour
> is for me only:
> - Ronnie considerably better during ABB
> - Keith considerable less during ABB
> - less prominent Chuck in the mix
> Jagger and Watts as stable as always

To me there was a considerable more amount of smack in the way they played on ABB. Ronnie got better, and Keith was good too (But the difference from him from Licks to ABB was paling when I saw the difference Ronnie made from Licks to AB. Chuck was down in te mix and I think they didn't overdo the backing (For example in Horsens. The horns were not even on stage most of the time and the back-up singers were almost non-present in the mix unless they really had to be there).



> both tours boring set lists

This I can't even come close to agreeing with. I loved those setlists. Great. One thing though: I wouldn't hurt to do it like they did on Licks. Namely to have three very different setlists rotating all the time (One setlist heavy on rarities, one heavy on warhorses and one in between - They could do this in a stadium too. They don't need a club/arena/stadium tour to do this).

JumpingKentFlash

OK, I want to add something to my previous post (who said I need to be consequent). Just compare Bitch from the Shanghai show on the Biggest Bang to Bitch on the first Four Flicks disk. Man, this Shanghai version is so wild and exciting!

OK, as a package FF has more interesting songs to enjoy, but there are some true gems that make ABB really worth every penny.