Whoa !!!....Where's the fire ?? ......lol

Man, they sure played SFM fast on that tour, didn't they?
Poor Mick could hardly get the words out...

I have to confess I din't hear the fills you mention but maybe that's because I'm just listening to it on a lap top.

I didn't see Ollie playing on this tune though either, is there another where he and Charlie are playing?

Thanks
Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

I first noticed it when I saw them in '75. It's a great energy saver and dosen't affect his sound because the snare is louder than the hi-hat.

A famous musician once said, "God lives in the space between where Charlie's stick goes up and comes down."

marvpeck Wrote:
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>
> Here's JJF
>
>


>
> I don't see it there.

Even in this murky clip you can see exacytly what I mean: everytime Charlie hits the snare he moves his left hand higher than normal on the 2 and 4. In the clip of Little Queenie you can see it better:





He clearly moves his right hand out of the way for his left hand. But, in '69 he would then still hit the hi-hat together with the snare. In '72, he opens his hi-hat every time he hits the snare on the 2 and 4:





Also listen to all boots of the '72 tour, Charlie's opening of the hi-hat on the 2 and 4 is really part of his style.

On the '75 tour he starts to play fills with the hi-hat on the 2 and 4, open them up, hitting them harder (check at 2:00):





And here, where he clearly lifts his right hand at every 2 and 4:





Starting from 1975, it really is Charlie's signature sound to not hit the hi-hat before every snare hit, and he really starts playing around with it, making very rythmic use of it. Also check out Love You Live for many examples.

Starting from 1978, Charlie's right hand gets stiffer when he stops at the 2 and 4. He starts playing four to the floor on many songs, and his stops on the hi-hat really makes his style swing like hell. On the '78 tour, he really does it on almost every song:











From about '81 on, Charlie also stops on the 2 and 4 on the ride:











So, really, Charlie's method of moving his right hand out of the way to hit the snare is an integral part of the Stones sound. Combined with the spaces that Richards and Wyman leave, this IS the Stones sound. They all dance around the 2 and 4, playing just in front or behind it. That's what makes the Stones swing, and it started already in '69.

Mathijs

Mathijs

Really I'm focused on just when Charlie starting lifting his right hand and not playing 2 and 4 on a cymbal.

Thanks for all the examples.

It was quite clear on the 78 version of Whip comes down he was lifting his right hand on 2 and 4. That's 2 years earlier than I was aware of, so thanks.

I looked at the other videos where you say he is also stopping 2 and 4 on the ride, but I don't see that. It looks like he is playing 2 and 4 on the ride to me. Just to be clear, I'm talking about not playing at all, not just a light touch or an open high hat. Just a clear skip of 2 and 4.

Playing ahead of behind 2 and 4 does create swing, but to me that's a different discussion. I now know Charlie was skipping 2 and 4 on the high hats as early as 78. Thanks
Marv

Marv Peck

Y'all remember that rubber legged boy

yeah great set of links mathijs, ty. very cool to focus in on charlie's stylistic stuff; fascinating.

I also had some difficulties understanding Mathijs examples but look at the clip from 1975 at 2:00 and you'll see a clear example. The trademark Charlie hi-hat pattern is right there, but he doesn't lift his right hand as high as today.

The absolute clear stops really started happening during the '77 Pathe Marconi sessions, and I personally think it has to do with the four to the floor kick beat that started during those sessions. In'75 and '76 Charlie would stop at the 2 and the 4 as well, but he would make up for it, with a roll, some crashes, or just some hard hits on the hi-hat. It sounds a bit like he's constantly in a break in '75. Check the JJF clip from '75. At 2:00 he makes some clear stops, but also some hits on the open hi-hat, and some rolls to make up for it.

BY the way, Start Me Up was recorded in '77.

Mathijs

No missing of 2 and 4 here -



(sorry off topic)

turd Wrote:
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> No missing of 2 and 4 here -
>


>
> (sorry off topic)

Oh no...always feared the day this clip would turn up here...makes me so embarrassed to be Danish

The guys name is Tommy Seebach(the keyboardist), best known for winning the Danish Song Contest 3 times

Sorry Sohoe - this guy is crazy, but talented too - good luck to you.

Thanks