I dont know what the guys think about sitting standing.

I do know keith Hates all the mobiles and cameras, after the show gets going he would rather people just enjoy the concert instead of being preoccupied with editing the pic or vid they just took.

Just got back from Rome what should have been a great 5 day vacation with the Stonesshow as a highlight. The vacation was great, Rome is wonderfull, but the Stonesshow turned into a little nightmare. Since my wife cannot stand up for a long time (caused by MS) we always take seats. She can stand up every now and then but also has to sit down every now and then. It has never been a problem. Even when you sit down and people are standing in front of you sometimes, you can still watch and enjoy the show. Rome was totally different. We had bought great seats on the field. Block A, Row 4, quite close to the stage. Just as we entered the stadium walking down the stairs to the field, we saw hundreds of people rushing down from the stands to the field. So we decided to wait untill things calmed down again. After that it took us about half an hour to fight our way through the crowd to get to our seats. We found out that dozens of people couldn't reach their seats anymore because they were taken by others. Our seats were still free but unfortunately there were about 10 rows in front of us were everybody was not just standing, but standing on the seats. Only way to see the stage was to climb on a chair, which is simply impossible for my wife, so she could not see one single thing from the show. After about 15 minutes looking at other people's backsides we decided to leave our seats and try to get to the back of the stadium, where it might be less crowded. But that was impossible too, because the aysles(?) were also crowded with people. No way to get through, so we stayed in our seats. I was able to stand on my chair, but my wife was forced to spend 2 hours of looking at the backside of those in front of us. I think that I don't have to express my opinion about how my wife and I think about those who were responsible for this.

-------------------
Keep On Rolling

Rolling Hansie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just got back from Rome what should have been a
> great 5 day vacation with the Stonesshow as a
> highlight. The vacation was great, Rome is
> wonderfull, but the Stonesshow turned into a
> little nightmare. Since my wife cannot stand up
> for a long time (caused by MS) we always take
> seats. She can stand up every now and then but
> also has to sit down every now and then. It has
> never been a problem. Even when you sit down and
> people are standing in front of you sometimes, you
> can still watch and enjoy the show. Rome was
> totally different. We had bought great seats on
> the field. Block A, Row 4, quite close to the
> stage. Just as we entered the stadium walking down
> the stairs to the field, we saw hundreds of people
> rushing down from the stands to the field. So we
> decided to wait untill things calmed down again.
> After that it took us about half an hour to fight
> our way through the crowd to get to our seats. We
> found out that dozens of people couldn't reach
> their seats anymore because they were taken by
> others. Our seats were still free but
> unfortunately there were about 10 rows in front of
> us were everybody was not just standing, but
> standing on the seats. Only way to see the stage
> was to climb on a chair, which is simply
> impossible for my wife, so she could not see one
> single thing from the show. After about 15 minutes
> looking at other people's backsides we decided to
> leave our seats and try to get to the back of the
> stadium, where it might be less crowded. But that
> was impossible too, because the aysles(?) were
> also crowded with people. No way to get through,
> so we stayed in our seats. I was able to stand on
> my chair, but my wife was forced to spend 2 hours
> of looking at the backside of those in front of
> us. I think that I don't have to express my
> opinion about how my wife and I think about those
> who were responsible for this.



Thanks for writing this.

Rolling Hansie, I really feel sorry for you and expecially for your wife. I know exactly what you are talking about. (I expressed my opinion about that earlier)Maybe you can go to the seated concerts of Hamburg or London without having that sad experience?

Very sorry for you and your wife, Rolling Hansie. The security people are to blame. Local security, that is. It's so sad that many people had their experience ruined by the Roman invasion. But the show was good, though! I hope you enjoyed it, after all. All the best to you and your wife!

I took some photos to document as far as possible what went on around the front of stage area where I was/had seats, which is marked on the seating plan in the first picture.



Following on, the first 6 pictures were all taken between 20:53 and 21:02 local time, the last two at 21:14 and 21:15 respectively. What you see in the first 6 pics represents the results of the ONE AND ONLY effort security made to clear that entire area of (a) people sitting on seats that they did NOT have tickets for, and (b) people standing in/occupying the aisles between the front A/B/C/D blocks and the 2 metre gap between the front rows of these blocks and the rail.

Pic taken standing on my seat looking forward and left ... you can see the entire FOS area is full of people, MOST of whom were subsequently moved out of there by security in the next few minutes



Looking to the right



Security starts to move people out



They started at the outside (aisles between blocks D and C and the sections of rail in front of the D and C blocks) and then moved inwards nearer the catwalk and the B and A blocks



More of the same



More of the same ... I would say this is about as clear as they got it in front of the C and perhaps B blocks, the nearer the catwalk they got the more problems they had shifting people out of there



This is what it looked like barely 15 minutes later when that entire area got invaded. This picture was taken at 21:14, 16 minutes before the band came on. Virtually throughout the entire show more and more people came down into the FOS area, aisles were completely blocked and people were forcing their way in between the first few rows. NO SURPRISE therefore that the legitimate occupants of seats in the first few rows ended up spending the entire show standing on their seats, they were FORCED to ... you simply wouldn't have seen a thing if you hadn't done that.



The back of the chairs you can see - at the end of which is standing a girl in a tank top and a green hat - THOSE are front row seats. In reality, they became row 5/6/7 ... something like that.



Let me say that I took these pics because once I saw what was happening, I thought it might serve a useful purpose to get some shots and stick them up here on IORR in order to promote some kind of vaguely constructive discussion about what went on and associated "security" issues.

For my part, the sum extent of the view I'm going to express is to say that although I personally had a blast at the show, I CAN undoubtedly see how others would have been considerably upset and dissatisfied with events of the night and the inadequacy of security staff ... and I consider that they would have had every right to feel that way.

Anyway, make of it what you will folks.

PS: But if I catch the bastard that lobbed about the twentieth empty beer bottle at Mrs PW or the other bastard that nicked my inflatable parrot ... there'll be big %$^*&$% to pay !!

Because of the mess, after a few songs I went to the b-stage where I had first row for almost 4 songs. Sort of made my day. I'm now blessed with the holy water of Mick Jagger. Can you believe that a fan insisted on having that bottle? How crazy can you get. A pic, that I undertsand.

>> To me it seems like that mostlikely Germans do not understand or do not want to understand <<

hey: it's not a nationality thing, or a religion thing. it's a rock & roll thing.

ahem: i mean standing in the immediate vicinity of one's own seat,
and not expecting other people to sit down just because i want to sit.
invading other people's spaces is another question entirely, and not cool.
i'm really sorry anyone had a bad time due to the disorder in Rome.

the space between the front row seats and the front rail is very wide,
and when the front-row people are at the rail (as they should be!)
i guess it starts to look like an "invitation" for other people to occupy that space.
that happened in Glasgow last year too, but not on the scale people are describing in Rome.
it doesn't make it easier to plead for the front-row people to be allowed up to the rail -
but the scene in Rome wasn't typical of reserved-seating shows, and i hope it won't be held against people elsewhere.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-10 18:09 by with sssoul.

<the other bastard that nicked my inflatable parrot ... >
Pauly... I saw a young man with a "parrot", and thought it was you. But I was surprised, as I've always thought of you as a "grown up". Must have been the thief, then. (This was on a bus heading for Rome after the show)

Thank you for the very detailed documentation, Paulywaul! I was in the sector "B" left next to yours,which is a littel closer to the stage, 2nd row, felt like 10 to 15th row,and to me it looked like once they tried to chase some people away, others kept coming back.
And no, I dont think being fed up with such a situation is a "German thing" or any nationalitys thin (I am Austrian, but many people sometimes think it is almost the same)

Rolling Hansie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just got back from Rome what should have been a
> great 5 day vacation with the Stonesshow as a
> highlight. The vacation was great, Rome is
> wonderfull, but the Stonesshow turned into a
> little nightmare. Since my wife cannot stand up
> for a long time (caused by MS) we always take
> seats. She can stand up every now and then but
> also has to sit down every now and then. It has
> never been a problem. Even when you sit down and
> people are standing in front of you sometimes, you
> can still watch and enjoy the show. Rome was
> totally different. We had bought great seats on
> the field. Block A, Row 4, quite close to the
> stage. Just as we entered the stadium walking down
> the stairs to the field, we saw hundreds of people
> rushing down from the stands to the field. So we
> decided to wait untill things calmed down again.
> After that it took us about half an hour to fight
> our way through the crowd to get to our seats. We
> found out that dozens of people couldn't reach
> their seats anymore because they were taken by
> others. Our seats were still free but
> unfortunately there were about 10 rows in front of
> us were everybody was not just standing, but
> standing on the seats. Only way to see the stage
> was to climb on a chair, which is simply
> impossible for my wife, so she could not see one
> single thing from the show. After about 15 minutes
> looking at other people's backsides we decided to
> leave our seats and try to get to the back of the
> stadium, where it might be less crowded. But that
> was impossible too, because the aysles(?) were
> also crowded with people. No way to get through,
> so we stayed in our seats. I was able to stand on
> my chair, but my wife was forced to spend 2 hours
> of looking at the backside of those in front of
> us. I think that I don't have to express my
> opinion about how my wife and I think about those
> who were responsible for this.


what a BUMMER for your wife and you - this is really bad - thanks for posting this - and in such a diplomatic way. I pretty much think it was the fault of the (non)organization of Ticketone or Milano Concerti or whatever, who messed up every decision they could have possibly messed up from day 1 when they put the tickets on sale in April. I think unfortunately they pretty much reaped the mess that they sowed - in the end causing some folks to have a blast, and others, not at all. really sorry that that happened to you guys.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-10 19:20 by loochie.

From these pictures above the Front row of seats is way too far back from the barrier or the barrier is too far forward, which ever poor lay out plan by the organiser or stadium .

In Glasgow there were people in our places when we arrived but they moved no problem.
I am pretty sure the seats were much closer to the barrier than the gap in the above pic from paul.
From what I saw most people in Glasgow without FOS seats were standing in the aisles not in front of the people in Row 1 .

But like Rome it is not a place to buy pitch tickets if you need to be seated.

Also like Rome fantastic atmosphere in which I personally did not feel scared.

>> In Glasgow ... I am pretty sure the seats were much closer to the barrier than the gap in the above pic from Paul.
From what I saw most people in Glasgow without FOS seats were standing in the aisles not in front of the people in Row 1 . <<

yeah, the space in Glasgow wasn't quite as wide as it looks in Paul's photos, you're right.
wide enough to look "inviting", though. i didn't have a view of the aisles, but there were intruders in the rows -
not in front of the front-row people only (i'm sure) because the front-row people were at the rail.

but again, it was nowhere near like the scene being described in Rome.

paulywaul,
I understand your first row seats were facing the stage extension. Couldn't you just move here to the rail, closer to the centre of the stage and you wouldn't have to bother about taller people standind in front of you? Or wasn't that possible after taking this picture or before show start?

[peering hard:] is that Theo sitting there observing all this from the steps? who's next to her?

ahem, sorry for the digression

Mine were second - not first row - seats in block C (third block out from the catwalk), but yes I fully accept your point, I could EASILY have spent the show right on the rail. It's just that I had Mrs PW with me, and she doesn't really do crowds too well, so we decided to hang out on our seats instead. It was no big deal, because once the "invasion" took place and not only the big gap between row 1 and the rail - but also the spaces between the first say 2/3/4 rows - started filling up with people, we simply did what virtually everyone else did ... we stood up on our seats.

In those crucial few minutes during which security actually managed to get rid of a reasonable number of people from the FOS area, they were actually concentrating on people with tickets that clearly put them elsewhere in the stadium. If at that moment you would have showed security that you had either first or second row tickets, they would have left you alone, they were focusing their energies on shifting people whose tickets were from nowhere near that area. But their efforts to remove people really didn't last long, and within minutes of getting rid of a proportion of them, EVEN MORE then came back ... and at that stage security just basically gave up altogether.

So to answer your question, YES it would have been possible to get to the location you point out, it would have been easy in fact if you had picked your moment carefully. I just chose not to do it, but stick with my seat(s) - that's all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-07-11 00:57 by paulywaul.

Harm, better to go to Rome than to Lourdes. There is no holy water because the Stones didn't preform there.

bartfrombrussels
Senior Food Critic IORR

?Remember Vilvoorde?
94 concerts & counting

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> is that Theo sitting there observing all this from
> the steps? who's next to her?
>
> ahem, sorry for the digression

Looks like Lizzie Jagger

yes, it`s lizzie jagger.

[www.iorr.org]

Among the photos below my IOW review on p21 there's a couple of closeups of Theo and Lizzie ...

>> I dont know what the [Stones] think about sitting [vs] standing. <<

strangely enough, this remark troubled me.
could someone remind me how many of the Stones' official dvds from shows with reserved seating on the pitch
show anyone in the audience actually sitting down?

of course they want people on their feet and dancing - just listen to them!