Nikolai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cali stones fan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nikolai Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > cali stones fan Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > In my above post I don't mean that rap is
> the
> > > only
> > > > cause of negative steroetypes and violence,
> > but
> > > it
> > > > definitely is one cause.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm with you with the stereotypes - read my
> > ever
> > > single post about the statre of current hip
> hop
> > > (which is actually what the genre is called;
> > rap
> > > is merely what MCs do) - but how exactly does
> > > music "cause" violence? Where did Marilyn
> > Manson
> > > "tell" a bunch of disturbed teenage idiots to
> > go
> > > and kill their school mates in Columbine?
> > > Where did Ozzy Osborne or Judas Priest tell a
> > > bunch of distubed teenagers to blow their
> > brains
> > > out? Take enough drugs and play your records
> > > backwards and you could read deep malevolent
> > > meaning into Barry Manilow or Barbara
> > Streisand.
> >
> >
> > I'm not saying the words of the music
> necessarily
> > tell people the stereotypes that black people
> are
> > gangsters but the whole culture surrounding the
> > music is where many people get their ideas of
> how
> > black people act or should act since it is all
> > over the media and there is very little
> coverage
> > of other types of black people, except sports
> > stars. For black children who want to get out
> of
> > the inner city the only way out shown in the
> media
> > is to either become a sports star, which only a
> > few can succeed at due to talent and
> > opportunities, or become a gangster, which
> leads
> > to a very destructive lifestyle.
>
>
> Well, believe it or not, it's not just black kids
> in your country. I read an interview with Rod
> Stewart years ago where he said that the only way
> out of poverty in the UK was football, music or
> crime. Same s.hit, different day.
>
> I don't think conditions are any easuer for poor
> white or Hispanic kids in the US. Same trifecta.
> Things are so mono-racial in the US though that
> it's easy to forget that it's not just blacks who
> are at the end of the social ladder. There's a
> growing disparity between rich and poor in the US
> and it's just set to grow even wider.
>
> And this gets back to what I've been saying about
> hip hop every time I get into a discussion about
> the music. It's turned into a minstrel show which
> only throws up negative images - P Diddy, Fiddy No
> Brains, Lil Jon, Lil Jonson, Lil Brain, Flavor
> Flav et al. It's guns, chains, crack, and
> bitches. Mainstream America doesn't see a Barack
> Obama, a Colin Powell, a Condoleeza Rice, an Oprah
> - people who have achieved some of the highest
> offices in the land (irrespective of what you
> think of their politics or of them) through their
> own meriot and hard work. No, mainstream America
> sees Cam'Ron on O'Reilly saying he wouldn't report
> a serial killer living next door to him because
> that's "snitching" (talk about ignorance!) or
> Busta Rhymes refusing to tell the police who
> killed the bodyguard he was standing right next
> to. They see an ex-drug-dealer called Fiddy who's
> been shot nine times and brags about it, an
> ex-drug-dealer called The Game who's been shot
> eleven times and brags about it. And then they
> turn around, read about the latest drive by and
> blame it on "hip hop". An attitude like Aslecs'
> doesn't surprise me.


As I said Hip Hop culture isn't the only cause, but it is part of it. I also said that yes, there are exceptions, but those tend to be overshadowed by the negative stereotypes. They shouldn't be, in my opinion, but they are, probably since the negative stereotypes are viewed as "cool" which doesn't make much sense to me.
And I am quite aware that poor white and Hispanic kids, as well as poor kids all over the world, also have a hard time. There are negative stereotypes about them, too. Living in California I see stereotypes of Hispanics all the time, often negative. I am lucky to know many Hispanics that aren't like that, and many blacks who aren't gangsters, and have since I was a kid so I am able to see through the stereotypes in the media but many don't. We were discussing hip hop culture here so that's what I was focusing on. I know the problems of negative stereotyping people who are disadvantaged isn't unique to blacks in the US.

Now we aint going for another round disco/not disco, are we, Nikolai... ?
Have a cold beer & join the lads!

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now we aint going for another round disco/not
> disco, are we, Nikolai... ?
> Have a cold beer & join the lads!


Nope, we're not. Beer? Sure! You buying?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-19 01:23 by Nikolai.

cali stones fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nikolai Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cali stones fan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Nikolai Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > cali stones fan Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > In my above post I don't mean that rap is
> > the
> > > > only
> > > > > cause of negative steroetypes and
> violence,
> > > but
> > > > it
> > > > > definitely is one cause.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm with you with the stereotypes - read my
> > > ever
> > > > single post about the statre of current hip
> > hop
> > > > (which is actually what the genre is
> called;
> > > rap
> > > > is merely what MCs do) - but how exactly
> does
> > > > music "cause" violence? Where did Marilyn
> > > Manson
> > > > "tell" a bunch of disturbed teenage idiots
> to
> > > go
> > > > and kill their school mates in Columbine?
>
> > > > Where did Ozzy Osborne or Judas Priest tell
> a
> > > > bunch of distubed teenagers to blow their
> > > brains
> > > > out? Take enough drugs and play your
> records
> > > > backwards and you could read deep
> malevolent
> > > > meaning into Barry Manilow or Barbara
> > > Streisand.
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm not saying the words of the music
> > necessarily
> > > tell people the stereotypes that black people
> > are
> > > gangsters but the whole culture surrounding
> the
> > > music is where many people get their ideas of
> > how
> > > black people act or should act since it is
> all
> > > over the media and there is very little
> > coverage
> > > of other types of black people, except sports
> > > stars. For black children who want to get
> out
> > of
> > > the inner city the only way out shown in the
> > media
> > > is to either become a sports star, which only
> a
> > > few can succeed at due to talent and
> > > opportunities, or become a gangster, which
> > leads
> > > to a very destructive lifestyle.
> >
> >
> > Well, believe it or not, it's not just black
> kids
> > in your country. I read an interview with Rod
> > Stewart years ago where he said that the only
> way
> > out of poverty in the UK was football, music or
> > crime. Same s.hit, different day.
> >
> > I don't think conditions are any easuer for
> poor
> > white or Hispanic kids in the US. Same
> trifecta.
> > Things are so mono-racial in the US though that
> > it's easy to forget that it's not just blacks
> who
> > are at the end of the social ladder. There's a
> > growing disparity between rich and poor in the
> US
> > and it's just set to grow even wider.
> >
> > And this gets back to what I've been saying
> about
> > hip hop every time I get into a discussion
> about
> > the music. It's turned into a minstrel show
> which
> > only throws up negative images - P Diddy, Fiddy
> No
> > Brains, Lil Jon, Lil Jonson, Lil Brain, Flavor
> > Flav et al. It's guns, chains, crack, and
> > bitches. Mainstream America doesn't see a
> Barack
> > Obama, a Colin Powell, a Condoleeza Rice, an
> Oprah
> > - people who have achieved some of the highest
> > offices in the land (irrespective of what you
> > think of their politics or of them) through
> their
> > own meriot and hard work. No, mainstream
> America
> > sees Cam'Ron on O'Reilly saying he wouldn't
> report
> > a serial killer living next door to him because
> > that's "snitching" (talk about ignorance!) or
> > Busta Rhymes refusing to tell the police who
> > killed the bodyguard he was standing right next
> > to. They see an ex-drug-dealer called Fiddy
> who's
> > been shot nine times and brags about it, an
> > ex-drug-dealer called The Game who's been shot
> > eleven times and brags about it. And then they
> > turn around, read about the latest drive by and
> > blame it on "hip hop". An attitude like
> Aslecs'
> > doesn't surprise me.
>
>
> As I said Hip Hop culture isn't the only cause,
> but it is part of it. I also said that yes, there
> are exceptions, but those tend to be overshadowed
> by the negative stereotypes. They shouldn't be,
> in my opinion, but they are, probably since the
> negative stereotypes are viewed as "cool" which
> doesn't make much sense to me.
> And I am quite aware that poor white and Hispanic
> kids, as well as poor kids all over the world,
> also have a hard time. There are negative
> stereotypes about them, too. Living in California
> I see stereotypes of Hispanics all the time, often
> negative. I am lucky to know many Hispanics that
> aren't like that, and many blacks who aren't
> gangsters, and have since I was a kid so I am able
> to see through the stereotypes in the media but
> many don't. We were discussing hip hop culture
> here so that's what I was focusing on. I know the
> problems of negative stereotyping people who are
> disadvantaged isn't unique to blacks in the US.


I understand - and understood - where you were coming from completely. And you're right, bad is more seductive an image than good. For example, people here venerate Keith more than they do Charlie.

Nikolai, sorry I thought you were being sarcastic by saying the negative image was more infulencian than the positive leaders. I re-read your post and reaize that was not the case. My bad, studying for finals has gotten to my brain!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-19 01:36 by cali stones fan.

cali stones fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nikolai, sorry I thought you were being sarcastic
> by saying the negative image was more infulencian
> than the positive leaders. I re-read your post
> and reaize that was not the case. My bad,
> studying for finals has gotten to my brain!


No worries, man. Good luck with your exams. Ace them!

i hate rap, hip hop, whatever else its called.

its sung, sorry shouted by a load of untalented numpties who cant write songs or play an instrument.

the music industry didnt need this type of music for years.

guys......I'm not a big fan of rap, but I am a fan of keeping our minds OPEN....there are some cool bands out there that might be classified as rap, maybe hip hop, I don't know....but for example, I love the Black Eyed Peas....and I love a lot of Snoop Doggs music...there are others....I'm not into the mindless shouting and crotch grabbing...hell. who would like that?.....but let's not be too quick to categize everything new that samples old songs as Hellacious Rap

Funny thing. off the ABB disc both She Saw Me coming and Infamy sound some-what rap-like.
And I love tose two songs and hope SSMC gets played live. I enjoyed Infamy live even though some did not.

I think I know where Keith's coming from, like that he speaks his mind, and tend to agree on this subject.

Talk about Keith speaking his mind: I loved him doing that on Princess Di and Elton years back. Priceless Keith!!!
(yet don't blame Sir Elton for being pissed)

ryanpow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I also remember Mick saying in an interview he
> didn't like rap. "Its just not my thing" he said.


Then what on Earth possessed Mick to include a "rap" section in Anybody Seen My Baby and ruin Hideaway, a potentially good song, with hip-hop beats?



Whether rap is harmful or not, I don't know, but there is no question that almost all of it is awful, unlistenable garbage.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-19 03:42 by it's_all_wrong.

Mick also recorded a song with Wycliff on his goddeess in the doorway album.

ryanpow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mick also recorded a song with Wycliff on his
> goddeess in the doorway album.


Yeah, that's the song, Hideaway.

I stand by my previously stated opinion.

Elmo wrote:

Disco sucks
Rap swallows

"No Anchovies, Please"

..... marshall mathers and the eminem show are the two finest pieces of work created in the past nineteen years..

M&M....barf! From my hometown and he is terrible! The only thing he has done that is halfway decent is the movie he was in...but music! Come on! The man doesn't sing, doesn't play any instruments, and rehashes the same stuff over and over and over again. TERRIBLE!

I reckon most of us love Africa Bambataa, Big Youth,
Phil Lynott's spoken songs, Shaggy, Eek-A-Mouse & Run DMC.
like ya can love Tranes or Miles feverish solos
without being a hardcore jazz nerd. Boundaries into
dancehall/ragga from rap is often vague... Me, I like
the "new" Swedish artist Timbuktu, who is mainly rap
but as often is he reggae: I also like Feven and some more
(these artists operate in a country where semi-dead
60-year-olds walk around and play cool & try to rock
& even worse try to roll!) of "the New Swedes scene".

... It aint all black or white (put what
ya like into that sentence).

What I react aganist is when people seem to think
one mustnt talk into the phone.

And I miss Rockman in this thread!!

Lukester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> guys......I'm not a big fan of rap, but I am a fan
> of keeping our minds OPEN....there are some cool
> bands out there...

I agree 100%!
Here's some cool hip-hop IMO:

01)Common - I Have A Dream


02)Dr. Dre: Still D.R.E


03)Gangstarr – Militia


04)Kanye West - Jesus Walks (Version 2)


05)Wu Tang Clan: Wu-Tang Clan Ain't Nuthing Ta @#$%& Wit


06)Roots Manuva, Too Cold


07)Mobb Deep - Shook Ones Pt. 2


08)Talib Kweli & John Legend - Around My Way


09) Public Enemy - Fight The Power


10) Jay-Z - 99 Problems:



And this one is especially for keith:

Keep on snortin'!

Bro wrote - And I miss Rockman in this thread!!
Awwwww isn't that sweet...but we can't go meeting like this..


Seriously though Bro I thought you were holding ya own
very well....One has to let ones children make their own way in the world ya know..

But hell Keith digs Big Youth...Now there's a powerhouse of Rap if
ya need one...Try Wolf in Sheeps Clothing - Version 2 if ya need proof..

And Bo Diddley's Say Man from 1958...One early
example of Rap if ya need it..and Keith & Mick would know that gem..

And who knows if The Glimmers would have heard Cliffie Stone's
Square Dance Boogie with Les Gotcher on vocals from 1951....
BUT that thing is just plain ole white man Rap....I notice a Dylan played
a Cliffie tune on one of his radio shows and Bob's a mate of Keith's so maybe Those Glimmers have heard it....



ROCKMAN

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But hell Keith digs Big Youth...Now there's a
> powerhouse of Rap if
> ya need one...Try Wolf in Sheeps Clothing -
> Version 2 if ya need proof..


Great stuff! Here's a sample:[www.allmusic.com]. Also check out:

What annoys me about the rappers and the hip hop artists is: 1) they're just posers! They know how to pose in pix and videos.
2) The Videos! I find it rather unnecessary to flash that much female skin in a "lyric" that's about: I have more money than you and I'm gonna sc**w your mum and your sister and your girlfriend..." Pathetic.
3)The jewelry: Whereas his Keithness is INSTANT style, the rappers just haven't understood style at all. Gold necklaces the size of car tyres... Come on! It's so tacky. It's like glueing money on yourself. Very vulgar.

4) the violent contents in the lyrics... Killing eachother's not cool either. And regrettably the bast***s have become role models for younger kids in Harlem and the Bronx. And LA.

5) The music? A handfull of songs are ok, but most of the time it's about ripping off someone elses compositions and trying to make new lyrics. Not enough to get my applause.
I'm not familiar with the songs Rockman's mentioning above, but if they have "Rockman's seal of approval", I probably like them.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-19 12:58 by Tralala.

And Big Youth on Can You keep A Secret is just plain spooky...



ROCKMAN

Rockman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bro wrote - And I miss Rockman in this thread!!
> Awwwww isn't that sweet...but we can't go meeting
> like this..
>
>
> Seriously though Bro I thought you were holding ya
> own
> very well....One has to let ones children make
> their own way in the world ya know..
>
> But hell Keith digs Big Youth...Now there's a
> powerhouse of Rap if
> ya need one...Try Wolf in Sheeps Clothing -
> Version 2 if ya need proof..
>
> And Bo Diddley's Say Man from 1958...One early
> example of Rap if ya need it..and Keith & Mick
> would know that gem..
---

O, What can I do? What can a poor boy do?
Needless to comment...
No, Ter ol' boy, cant go on seein' each other
like this... Ya gotta come up here soon & try my bear rug...
(Sorry )!
Anyway: See, Rock put things in perspective like nobody else could!
Five minutes with Dr SATAN or Rockies Reading is what any music teacher
ought to be ordinated...
No go put on Big Youf ya no-goods!

Here ya go Tralala...the lyrics to Say Man
Bo and Jereme Green trading lyrics over the Bo beat...Damn Funny...


Say man,
What's that boy?
I want to tell you 'bout your girlfriend,
What about my girl?
Well, you don't look strong enough to take the message,
I'm strong enough,
I might hurt your feelings,
My feelings are already hurt by being here with you,
Well, I was walking down the street with your girl the other day,
Ah-ha,
And the wind was blowin' real hard,
Is that right?
And the wind blew her hair into my face,
Ah-ha,
You know what else happened?
What happened?
The wind blew her hair into her face,
Yeh?
And we went a little further; you wanna hear the rest of it?
I might as well,
The wind blew her hair into the street!
Ok; since you told me about my girl, I'm gonna tell you about yours. I was walking down the street with your girl,
Yes?
I took her home, for a drink, you know,
Took her home?
Yeh, jus' for a drink,
Oh,
But that chick looked so ugly, she had to sneak up on the glass to get a drink of water!
You've got the nerve to call somebody ugly; why you so ugly the stork that brought you in the world oughta be arrested!
That's alright; my momma didn't have to put a sheet on my head so sleep could slip up on me!
Look-a here!
What's that?
Where are you from?
South America,
What's that?
South America,
You don't look like no South American to me,
I'm still from South America,
What part?
South Texas!
Where are your workin' boots at?
I've got 'em on,
Those aren't no boots you got on; those broguettes!
Hey, look-a here!
What's that?
I've bin tryin' to figure out what you is,
I already figured out what YOU is!
What's that?
You that thing I throw peanuts at!
Look-a here!
What's that?
You should be ashamed of yourself,
Why?
Calling people ugly,
I didn't call you ugly,
What you say?
I said you was ruined, that's all!
You know somethin'?
What?
You look like you've bin whooped with a ugly-stick!
Hey! I ain't got nothin' to do with it, but I beat the fellah right...!



ROCKMAN

Another great early "rap" classic is The Monkey by Dave Bartholomew from 1957.

Hungarian Rap in the 1930s - A Hetedik (will post the song by Hobo later today;
as its recorded with a steady Bo Diddley-riddem)


by Jószef Attila 1905-1937 [hu.wikipedia.org]

"You're Gonna Be The 7th" A HETEDIK (Te Magad Légy) [www.umann.com]

E világon ha ütsz tanyát, hétszer szüljön meg az anyád.
Egyszer szüljön égõ házban, egyszer jeges áradásban,
Egyszer bolondok házában, egyszer hajló szép búzában,
Egyszer kongó kolostorban, egyszer disznók közt az ólban,
Fölsír a hat, de mire mégy, a hetedik te magad légy!

---

S ha mindez volt, ahogy írva, hét emberként szállj a sírba.
Egy, kit tejes kebel ringat, egy, ki kemény mell után kap,
Egy, ki elvet üres edényt, egy, ki gyõzni segít szegényt,
egy, ki dolgozik bomolva, egy, aki csak néz a Holdra,
Világ sírköve alatt mégy, a hetedik te magad légy!

(as I recall the whole lyrics in extenso might by un-necessary,
I will take most of it away soon).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-05-19 17:30 by Baboon Bro.

W/in two minutes ya may hear this 80 year old rap
covered by the one & only Mr Hobo... See Buy/Sell/trade.

this aint rap really but is that Keith in the control room? Terrified and shocked by this new music.

I hate rap and hip-hop too. Bless Keith. Only two tracks I've heard was good. California Love by TuPac and Walk This Way with Aerosmith and Run DMC.

JumpingKentFlash

Reckon ya aint hatin'all Bo Diddleys work nor Bob-Shi-Bam, Kent ?

Who doesn t hate rap?