posted by Doug over on shidoobee: [p081.ezboard.com]

18 March 2007
KING BOOTLEG
EXCLUSIVE
Crook who ripped off Robbie Williams, Oasis and the Rolling Stones has dirty money fortune seized
By Norman Silvester

A Scots music man who faces losing the £1million fortune he made from bootleg CDs of concerts by Robbie Williams, Bob Dylan and the Rolling Stones.

Peter Cruickshank, 46, has run stalls at record fairs across Britain and Ireland for 10 years. He protests his trade is only a hobby and appears to live modestly in his mother's house. But he owns an MG sports car and other vehicles and is building a villa in Marbella.

He was caught in December 2003 with £30,000 of bootleg CDs in a van at Stranraer's ferry terminal. His haul included live recordings of Led Zeppelin, Abba, Aerosmith, Beach Boys, David Gray, Elvis, Eagles, Iron Maiden, Manic Street Preachers, Pink Floyd, Robbie Williams, Rolling Stones, Beatles, Bon Jovi, Eminem, Oasis, Paul Weller and Queen.

Now Cruickshank has had the proceeds from his trade - worth £564,000 - frozen by the Crown Office. He invested the dirty money in shares and investments as well as the villa in Spain. Customs and Revenue are also expected to try to recover unpaid tax - meaning he could lose £1million.

The music industry loses £165million a year from piracy and bootlegging. A British Phonographic Institute spokesman said: "These lost sales amount to the combined legal sales of the top 13 best-selling albums in the UK last year."

Bootlegging concerts rakes in massive profits with rare recordings that can fetch up to £300 each. A soundman working for the band tapes the gig or a criminal in the audience records it off a speaker. Bootleg CDs of Oasis' performance at the Brits in January appeared on eBay within an hour.

Last night Cruickshank, who lives in his mum's house in Bearsden, Glasgow, claimed he had quit.

He said: "They have frozen everything, including the van and car. Most of my money is from legitimate sources such as selling back catalogues and deletions. Only about 20 per cent of it was from bootlegging. But I did not keep accounts for six years or pay tax and the authorities would rather chaseme than real criminals.
I am only breaking copyright regulations but record companies are spending millions of pounds to try to catch people like me."

The former bus company worker claims he made most of his money when he invested his redundancy payout in 1990 by buying the entire stock of a London record company.

He said: "I bought bootleg CDs in bulk from Italy. I don't make them myself. We've tried to reach a settlement on what I owe but the Crown want everything." The Crown Office confirmed they are seeking a confiscation order.

In 1998 police raided Cruickshank's home and took 50,000 pirate CDs and cassettes, worth £500,000. But he was not prosecuted. In 2000 Cruickshank was caught selling 2000 CDs on a stall at Birmingham's National Exhibition Centre and fined £600. Last week he was given a year's deferred sentence for selling illegal recordings after pleading guilty at Stranraer Sheriff Court.

It follows years of investigation by police, trading standards officers and the British Phonographic Institute. A BPI investigator said: "These guys are making more money than major drug dealers."

mailfile

Top 5 bootlegs

1. THE BEATLES: Anthology Plus - recordings of studio sessions for the BBC in the mid-1960s.
2. LED ZEPPELIN: Rare Zep concerts can cost hundreds but most sought after are BBC sessions.
3. BOB DYLAN: The most prized bootleg is a 1966 recording, Live At The Royal Albert Hall.
4. THE ROLLING STONES: A 1969 tape, Stoned In The Park, of a Hyde Park concert in London, when Mick Jagger paid tribute to drowning victim Brian Jones fetches big money.
5. PRINCE: A studio recording, The Black Album, planned as a follow up to Sign Of The Times was huge on the blackmarket before being officially released in 1994.

What he'll lose

The confiscation order means Peter Cruickshank could lose all his assets under the Proceeds of Crime Act:
Two white Transit vans £50,000
One MG sports car £20,000
Holiday home in Marbella £220,000
Shares, bank accounts, investments and personal possessions £276,000
Total £566,000
He also faces a £500,000 bill from the Customs and Inland Revenue to cover years of unpaid tax.

His victims: Led Zeppelin, Abba, Aerosmith, Beach Boys, Bob Dylan, David Gray, Elvis Presley, Eagles, Iron Maiden, Manic Street Preachers, Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd, Robbie Williams, Rolling Stones, Beatles, Bon Jovi, Eminem, Metallica, Oasis, Paul Weller and Queen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-18 23:20 by with sssoul.

If you play the game you can always lose...or win.

How in the world could the BBC Sessions be the most sought after Zep bootlegs?

They are officially released!

I don't see how the bootleg industry makes the "music industry" loosing such a big amount of money. Unless we are talking about "pirate-copies" instead of live-recordings.
Anyhow, if you make a fortune out of selling concerts which other people has recorded, you're doing something....which you shouldn't brag about, to say the least.
I remember that Bowie bootleg from the 70s "The Wembley Duke Touches The Dial" which the UK police (or whatever) released...and marked the albums, just to find out who ordered that item. Then they tracked the bigger dealers down, and pressed charges.

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How in the world could the BBC Sessions be the
> most sought after Zep bootlegs?
>
> They are officially released!


But more importantly, how could anyone be seeking Zep bootlegs?

They officially sucked!

Forty Niks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glass Slide Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > How in the world could the BBC Sessions be the
> > most sought after Zep bootlegs?
> >
> > They are officially released!
>
>
> But more importantly, how could anyone be seeking
> Zep bootlegs?
>
> They officially sucked!


Umm, not quite there, Nik.

Are you familiar with their music--cause the band that wrote In the Light, Ten Years Gone, The Rain Song, Going to California and dozens of other GREAT songs most certainly did not "suck".

Kind of an ignorant statement. If you don't like them for whatever reason, and I am guessing that you don't (lol), fine. But, to say they "suck" is more than a little off.

As far as anyone seeking Zeppelin bootlegs, can't agree with that either--you realize there are probably as many Zeppelin fans, possibly more, as there are Stones fans. Zeppelin was higher up that list than the Stones.

Glass Slide Wrote:
>
> As far as anyone seeking Zeppelin bootlegs, can't
> agree with that either--you realize there are
> probably as many Zeppelin fans, possibly more, as
> there are Stones fans. Zeppelin was higher up that
> list than the Stones.


I know it, and it makes me weep for the youth . . .At my local pool hall up in Portland, the 100 most played bands on the jukebox were recently posted. Zep was number 1 - the Stones were number 4! Oh, how I worry for the future . . .

Anyway, I've just never been able to "get" Zep. The comment about them "sucking" was solely to break 'glass' . . .mission accomplished!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 02:59 by Forty Niks.

Well done on the button pressing there Nik! lol

Pretty amazing for a band that has been defunct for over 26 yrs.

For some reason Zeppelin seems to be far more popular with today's "youth" than the Stones, which always struck me as odd since the Stones are still a going concern. But, even when I was in high school, Zeppelin was already over and they were more popular. Very strange, but I guess it is tough to compete with the ghosts.

As far as not "getting" Zeppelin, I know lots of people that cannot get past Plant's vocal gymnastics, but, hey different strokes.

As for the bootleg bust--as someone who still buys "silvers" from bootleg stores, I am always sorry to see someone get busted for what I see as close to a victimless crime. The people on lower Broadway/Canal who sell pirate copies of official releases--that's a whole other story.

My .02

Ps--less time in the pool hall and more time in the library and you will not have these sort of problems. What would Paul Allen say? lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 03:19 by Glass Slide.

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My .02
>
> Ps--less time in the pool hall and more time in
> the library and you will not have these sort of
> problems. What would Paul Allen say? lol


He'd say "my name is Steve Jobs, ya bastard!"

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for the bootleg bust--as someone who still buys
> "silvers" from bootleg stores, I am always sorry
> to see someone get busted for what I see as close
> to a victimless crime. The people on lower
> Broadway/Canal who sell pirate copies of official
> releases--that's a whole other story.


A few years ago, I thought that the bootlegers was doing a tremendous job, since they spread this awesome recordings, which is treasures for people like us. No crime at all. They're preserving the past....spreading concerts that we'll never get to hear if not for them.
BUT, when you hear the stories about how the concerts were recorded, and spread among fans, it's very strange that "one label" in Japan/USA/wherever get all the credits, and even earn money on the works of music-enthusiasts.
The Steel Wheels outtakes, which Gazza and his source (don't know his name) spread for free at Rocks Off and here....why should some guys with a CD-presseing-machine (+ all the "dealers") make money on that material ?
Sometimes the bootleg-labels come up with unique material, because owners of tapes want to make a small amount on selling the tapes to boot-labels. Then they're doing a good thing for the society. And labels like Crystal Cat...they record shows themselves, and even take their own pictures for the artwork! They deserve an Oscar!
But 80% of the bootleg releases are just re-hash of real fans recordings, and they earn their money on people who don't know about the origin of the recordings they are purchasing.
I got a love/hate relationship with bootleging.
Apart from the smoking pig below, of course.

I agree with you IF, and it is a big "if" you are talking about a "lossless" format. If so I agree, if not, then I see a difference--the reason I limit by bootleg purchases to "silvers". To me, sonically, there is a difference between an mp3-type format and a pressed silver cd.

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree with you IF, and it is a big "if" you are
> talking about a "lossless" format. If so I agree,
> if not, then I see a difference--the reason I
> limit by bootleg purchases to "silvers". To me,
> sonically, there is a difference between an
> mp3-type format and a pressed silver cd.


I'm talking about lossless formats of course. I'm not a fan of MP3s, to say the least.
MP3s is not an issue !
People are sharing CDRs, sharing tapes and doing torrents without earning anything on it...and have been doing for 35 years! (apart from the torrents)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 03:58 by Erik_Snow.

Then, it is hard to argue with your earlier point.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The music industry loses £165million a year from
> piracy and bootlegging. A British Phonographic
> Institute spokesman said: "These lost sales amount
> to the combined legal sales of the top 13
> best-selling albums in the UK last year."



How can they lose money from bootlegs of unreleased stuff? They weren't making any money off of it in the first place.

it's_all_wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The music industry loses £165million a year
> from
> > piracy and bootlegging. A British Phonographic
> > Institute spokesman said: "These lost sales
> amount
> > to the combined legal sales of the top 13
> > best-selling albums in the UK last year."
>
>
>
> How can they lose money from bootlegs of
> unreleased stuff? They weren't making any money
> off of it in the first place.


Excellent point. Makes you wonder who "funds" the British Phongraphic Institute and how in the world can they come up with these figures?

it's_all_wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The music industry loses £165million a year
> from
> > piracy and bootlegging. A British Phonographic
> > Institute spokesman said: "These lost sales
> amount
> > to the combined legal sales of the top 13
> > best-selling albums in the UK last year."
>
>
>
> How can they lose money from bootlegs of
> unreleased stuff? They weren't making any money
> off of it in the first place.

thats exactly what i was thinking

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it's_all_wrong Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > with sssoul Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > The music industry loses £165million a year
> > from
> > > piracy and bootlegging. A British
> Phonographic
> > > Institute spokesman said: "These lost sales
> > amount
> > > to the combined legal sales of the top 13
> > > best-selling albums in the UK last year."
> >
> >
> >
> > How can they lose money from bootlegs of
> > unreleased stuff? They weren't making any money
> > off of it in the first place.
>
>
> Excellent point. Makes you wonder who "funds" the
> British Phongraphic Institute and how in the world
> can they come up with these figures?


Yes, it's absurd.
The record-labels don't release this material anyway.
They don't care or know about the fantastic event each and every concert used to be, or about our interest in it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 13:57 by Erik_Snow.

Here go the BPI justifying their salaries again.................and costing the UK taxpayer millions. These people are not a legal orginisation they are a private company using tax payers cash to get the results they want. It's a pity they don't look after the artists with shitty contracts from the 60's etc who are trying to claim back royalties etc.......

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A soundman working for the band tapes the gig or a
> criminal in the audience records it off a speaker.

a "criminal" in the audience - that's not even funny...

> It follows years of investigation by police,
> trading standards officers and the British
> Phonographic Institute. A BPI investigator said:
> "These guys are making more money than major drug
> dealers."


No, no they don't. And boots dont kill people. Absurd.

> His victims: Led Zeppelin, Abba, Aerosmith, Beach
> Boys, Bob Dylan, David Gray, Elvis Presley,
> Eagles, Iron Maiden, Manic Street Preachers, Pearl
> Jam, Pink Floyd, Robbie Williams, Rolling Stones,
> Beatles, Bon Jovi, Eminem, Metallica, Oasis, Paul
> Weller and Queen


Yes, poor victims. They win fans and the hardcore fans who has payed hardearned money for their records, videos and then cds and dvds stay.

Lame.

The article was taken from the Sunday Mail, a Scottish paper. The person it is about - Peter - is one of the good guys; given the legal position, I'll say no more about him.

Beside that article was a story about an English dealer who was bust at a record fair in Glasgow (which I witnessed). His CDs - which included a fair number of Led Zeppelin - were crated up and he was led off in handcuffs. Now here's the crazy part! According to the Sunday Mail, none other than Jimmy Page is going to appear as a prosecution witness against the guy when the case goes before Glasgow Sheriff Court; apparently he is going to testify how much bootlegging has cost him and his erstwhile bandmates. No joke.

Isn't it crazy that the authorities are pursuing these cases with such vigour at a time when the international music industry is on the brink of meltdown. The download genie is well and truly out of the bottle and some major labels are giving serious consideration to making their downloads available FREE and taking their money from the advertising revenue alone.

These guys are not the ones who are making the CDs. They're the sort of guy you bought your first copy of Brussels Affair (or Leeds or Liver) from. If the police wanted to know where there is serious crime in Glasgow, I would happily show them and it wouldn't be the guy selling a live CD to a fan who already has all the official releases and will continue to buy them as they appear. Of course, the police know this already. The BPI has considerable financial clout which gives them political influence and I will say no more.

Rant over.

...

Bootlegging concerts rakes in massive profits with rare recordings that can fetch up to £300 each. A soundman working for the band tapes the gig or a criminal in the audience records it off a speaker. Bootleg CDs of Oasis' performance at the Brits in January appeared on eBay within an hour.

This statement should wipe the smile off the faces of the smug criminals on some of the torrent sites.............the we don't sell we trade brigade, seems that in the eye of the law it's the same thing.

>> Bootlegging concerts rakes in massive profits with rare recordings that can fetch up to £300 each. <<


Or 200.000$ for bootleg-footage without sound.

But £300, that must be the "master tape", no bootlegs has such a price, unless we're talking about rare and antique bootlegs.

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Bootlegging concerts rakes in massive profits
> with rare recordings that can fetch up to £300
> each. <<
>
>
> Or 200.000$ for bootleg-footage without sound.
>
> But £300, that must be the "master tape", no
> bootlegs has such a price, unless we're talking
> about rare and antique bootlegs.


If memory serves me correctly, the Stones' Liver Than You'll Ever Be was the second commercially produced bootleg album (Dylan was 1st). It was released in 1069 while the tour was still going on and must be as "antique" as bootleg albums can be. I've never seen anything like £300 being asked for an original copy (which I used to have but that's another story) and wouldn't dream of paying that amount of cash for one.

Personally, I think the £300 is made up by the paper to spice up the story or possibly a figure from the BPI which is as inaccurate as the figures they give for lost earnngs through bootlegs. Personally I have rarely seen bootleg CDs selling for more than £15 and even that is ovwer-priced, with the majority falling into the £5 to £10 category.

P.S. If the Sunday Mail offered me £300 each for my bootlegs I would give up work and go to every gig on the summer tour!

Yes, Teleblaster, that's what I was thinking, there are no bootlegs at that price, infact there are very few bootlegs going for 1/10 of 300£, unless we're talking about box-sets, or "antiques".

it's_all_wrong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> with sssoul Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The music industry loses £165million a year
> from
> > piracy and bootlegging. A British Phonographic
> > Institute spokesman said: "These lost sales
> amount
> > to the combined legal sales of the top 13
> > best-selling albums in the UK last year."
>
>
>
> How can they lose money from bootlegs of
> unreleased stuff? They weren't making any money
> off of it in the first place.


If those bootlegs wheren't on the market, you would have gone and bought the newest record of Robbie Williams. quite simple, innit?

teleblaster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
> Liver
> Than You'll Ever Be was the second commercially
> produced bootleg album (Dylan was 1st). It was
> released in 1069 while the tour was still going on

OOPS. They've not been playing for THAT long.

Was meant to read 1969 of course.......

>> If those bootlegs wheren't on the market, you would have gone and bought the newest record of Robbie Williams. quite simple, innit? <<

If things were that simple



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-21 02:27 by Erik_Snow.