It’s not a great secret I am not a real big fan of the Stones as they play nowadays. I feel that with Wyman leaving also the swing left the Stones, and I do feel that the guitarists aren’t the most exciting anymore. This Bigger Bang tour passed me by for the greatest part. I didn’t listen to that many bootlegs, I didn’t fly to the US to see them, I only attended one show in Holland, and it just didn’t really appeal to me anymore. That’s o.k. I think. That’s just the way things go in Patterson.

But some days ago a friend of mine wanted to show me something. He had me sat down, opened a bottle of whine, and had me watch the March 22 Tokyo show. It was the worst ever musical experience I ever had. To this day, I am actually ashamed when I think about the show. To put it straight: Keith and Ron didn’t have a clue what they were doing op on that stage. They didn’t have a clue what to do what the guitar they were supposed to play.

It started with "Jumping Jack Flash". There were some sound problems, but also, Keith played the intro wrong. Not just wrong, he played it out of tune. He played a bit in Bflat, and a bit in B. Wood just noodled along, I sincerely think he didn’t even recognize the song.

Then to "Let's Spend The Night Together"…Chuck starts the intro, and Keith follows…at least, he tries. He doesn’t have a clue what key this song is in. And when he thinks he found the key, he starts noodling totally off key! For the entire song, Keith is totally off. Wood even tries to help Keith, but he doesn’t know which song this is. Am I making this up? Jagger’s “god have mercy” whisper tells me he knows it too.

Then "She's So Cold". It’s just a terrible mess of guitars. Nobody knows the chords. Keith tries a solo in G, but starts in B instead. Wood is obliged to do the lead with the B-bender…Mental note to Ron Wood: please don’t ever play the B-bender again! It’s atrocious! You play off-key, and then bend the note even further off-key. It’s terrible!

Then to “Oh No Not You Again”. O.k. This song is only three chords, what can you do wrong? Well, you can simply NOT know the three chords of the song like Wood did. And, you can play the solo in the wrong key, like Keith does. I am not making this up: again Jagger notices it all, and sends callous looks to all.

The next song is “Sway”. Literally nobody knows this song, so much is clear by now. The intro is played plainly wrong (Hey Keith: it’s D / F / C, not D / E / C. It’s only one fret, but it’s a different chord you know). Wood hasn’t got the slightest idea about the two chords in the verses: he hits something in between a C and a Bflat, and then seeks help with his roadie: this is the key right? Am I doing it right? The solo is just a clashing mesh of out of tune feed-backing notes. This is not a solo, this is torture. Jagger notices it as well, and wants to cut it short. Unfortunately not everybody in the band follows Jagger so closely, and most miss the cues given. Here also a note to Jagger: if you can’t hit the notes you did hit 30 years ago it sometimes is better to simply NOT play the song. They way you sing it now doesn’t do the song justice.

Then on to "As Tears Go By", and something truly astonishing happens. You earn 500 million a year; you pay your roadie a million a year, and what happens? The roadie hands a 12-string acoustic totally out of tune! And not just a bit off, no: totally out of tune! Even Keith, whom doesn’t recognize the song he’s playing, hears the guitar is out of tune. Does he grab a new one, does he demands the roadie to bring a new one? No! He just plays on. And to make matters worse: he plays the wrong riffs in the wrong key on an out-of-tune guitar!

O.k., I had enough. But my friend insisted I watched "Tumbling Dice". Why? To watch Ron Wood torture the audience with yet another B-bender solo. The screeching and the feeding back is horrendous. This is terrible. I don’t want to watch this anymore.

I am sorry, I can’t take it anymore. The Stones, in this form, just plainly should not be playing live, on these big stages anymore. It’s just not possible. People are paying money to see you play. People save money to see you play. People spend their vacations to see you play. And what do you do? You don’t give a fvck. You do not rehearse, you drink your self to death, you take lines until your nose starts to bleed, and you don’t give a fvck about the people paying $200 to see you play. You laugh about it, you tell a nice story in the MOJO magazine that you really hit rock bottom in Munich, and meanwhile you don’t give a flying fvck these 60.000 people just paid 100 euros and spend the entire day and night to see you play. You don’t give a fvck, you just go to one of your one billion estates and laugh it off. Why should you care….

No matter how legendary they are, but this show is the lowest the Stones have ever been. I am ashamed.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-18 02:32 by Mathijs.

You're funny. I like you.

Sounds like a stuck record.

As the guy (me) who just doesn't know very much, and spends many posts commenting on the truely bad argumentation exposed here from time to time, instead of commenting on the music I just do not feel like knowing enough about, I just want to say how much I appreciate that you are honest, and take care of the way you say things, and the argumentation behind your opinions. I feel sad for you that you experience it this way, but I praise you for a vulnurable post like this. Because it is the argumentation that can be discussed: no arguments=no discussion=always right, however the smallness of the content.

Hope you'll find a way to get at ease again with the words The Rolling Stones.

Jelle

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> No matter how legendary they are, but this show is
> the lowest the Stones have ever been. I am
> ashamed.
>
> Mathijs


Why are YOU ashamed at someone else's apparent inadequacy?

That is why i passed on them this time. I would just prefer to remember them when they were good. And for all of you who are going to jump on me for saying so The hell with you . You guys defned these guys actions Way to much. You blindly just follow these guys as they take you money and play bad. You just want them to sound good so they do to you .

Mathijs:

I'm sympathetic to your points, but it's undeniable that the Stones have had train wrecks on individual songs, and even entire shows, going back to at least 1966.

And brother, I was THERE in Atlantic city this past November, when they were superb. Keith's rhythm playing AND his solos were absolutely hot. So were Ronnie's. The whole band was great.

Plus we should all be reminded: in Baltimore a year ago, just days before the Super Bowl, Mick Jagger totally risked his voice - he positively screamed his lungs out on MR, among other tunes. The band was great and left everything they had (which was considerable) on the stage - all for the benefit of a working class crowd of 12,000 in a city that's off the map culturally (there weren't going to be any significant media reviews of this concert); it was certainly the least lucrative show imaginable prior to their huge Super Bowl gig, yet they were fantastic.

So yeah, the bad shows still happen. But great ones happen all the time, and they still seem to outnumber the bad by far.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> >> No matter how legendary they are, but this show
> is
> > the lowest the Stones have ever been. I am
> > ashamed.
> >
> > Mathijs
>
>
> Why are YOU ashamed at someone else's apparent
> inadequacy?

I really don't know Gazza, I really don't know. I guess I just find it really, really painful to see the best ever band that has ever existed to just become the worst money-grabbing Las Vegas act I've ever seen. It just realy hurts me. Last week we got Detroit '78, this week I got Tokyo 2006. It just really hurts me.

Mathijs

I respect this review Mathijs, because although harsh, you didnt try insulting people who still enjoy the shows.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (....)He had me sat down, opened a bottle
> of whine(...)

He most certainly did!


I think most of the US and European tour 2006 were superiour to the Japanese shows. I noticed some things on the Tokyo 06 DVD myself...

Mathijs Wrote:
> I really don't know Gazza, I really don't know. I
> guess I just find it really, really painful to see
> the best ever band that has ever existed to just
> become the worst money-grabbing Las Vegas act I've
> ever seen. It just realy hurts me. Last week we
> got Detroit '78, this week I got Tokyo 2006. It
> just really hurts me.
>
> Mathijs


fair enough..the money-grabbing aspect insults and saddens me, but I wouldnt go just as far as to say I'm 'ashamed' about it

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > (....)He had me sat down, opened a bottle
> > of whine(...)
>
> He most certainly did!
>
>
> I think most of the US and European tour 2006 were
> superiour to the Japanese shows. I noticed some
> things on the Tokyo 06 DVD myself...

I think the Euro part was worse than the Japanese part. And Ron Wood apparently agrees...

Mathijs

All groups go through changes. There are highs and lows to every band's career. I give them a lot of credit going out on a long long LONG tour given the fact that they've been touring for 40+ years. A lot of bands would have called it quits years ago but not The Stones. I LOVE THEM !!!

ABB tour is just another phase of The Rolling Stones career and I consider it a high, not a low. I hope there will be at least one more phase that I can witness in concert.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the Euro part was worse than the Japanese
> part. And Ron Wood apparently agrees...
>
> Mathijs

Oh really ?
I haven't listened too much to the European shows of 2006(...even though I do have them...), apart from the UK shows, since I attended them, and I just thought Ronnie did some nice playing there, much better than the Japanese shows...which I have listened to.

I was hoping the UK shows was the standard of Europe 2006.
Well what do I know...

I agree to some of the things you wrote in your review, I'm afraid.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-18 03:29 by Erik_Snow.

custom55 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I give them a
> lot of credit going out on a long long LONG tour
> given the fact that they've been touring for 40+
> years.

But what do you exactly give them credit for? They earn an average of $6 million dollar per show -what is the credit they earn? Do they tour for the music or for the fans? If they do tour for the music then consider my pledge void. But maybe they tour for the $6 million, and maybe they just don't give a rat's ass about the music anymore...

Do you still give them so much credit then? Would you?

Mathijs



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-18 02:51 by Mathijs.

B, G, A, C . . . why don't you just come out and say it? you think the show was an F!

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Mathijs Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > >> No matter how legendary they are, but this
> show
> > is
> > > the lowest the Stones have ever been. I am
> > > ashamed.
> > >
> > > Mathijs
> >
> >
> > Why are YOU ashamed at someone else's apparent
> > inadequacy?
>
> I really don't know Gazza, I really don't know. I
> guess I just find it really, really painful to see
> the best ever band that has ever existed to just
> become the worst money-grabbing Las Vegas act I've
> ever seen. It just realy hurts me. Last week we
> got Detroit '78, this week I got Tokyo 2006. It
> just really hurts me.
>
> Mathijs


funny.. Listening to Detroit 1978 this week I thought to myself...This band sure misses Bill Wyman. It aint been the same since he left.

They didnt play 'good' or 'well' in 1978.
They were on fire. They also still took a lot of drugs.
Its all a question about energy & tempo;
and they sure have had energy on stage,
let go the tempo is a-slowing at times nowadays..
HAve had the doubtgful pleasure of - thru my radio station -
watch several band´s with members in their 60s last 1 - 1½
& a common trait is that they all take down the tempo..

I can agree with Mathijs points to some extent, a few of the shows
I have heard have been luke warm.

Maybe its time to soon become that blues band we all awit
to fly up, just like the Bird Phoenix.

Imho its howeever time to throw lots of warhorses over board;
they are holding them back.

God Help me but I miss not only Wyman but also Mr MT...

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But some days ago a friend of mine wanted to show
> me something. He had me sat down, opened a bottle
> of whine, and had me watch the March 22 Tokyo
> show.
> No matter how legendary they are, but this show is
> the lowest the Stones have ever been. I am
> ashamed.
>
> Mathijs

Seems to me Mathijs just felt like opening a bottle of "whine" with this thread ya?

Well Mathijs. What can i say,They are not that autrosious that you are proclaiming,i think your making your reality way worse then it is. I took a break from the lick's tour because i thought it was getting boring as far as BTB tour. Unfortunatly i think your way off from some of the show's i saw this tour were among the best i've seen. That said it seems your infatuated by what kind of money they make? Who cares they deserve it it goes with the territory,they've been at it 45 year's just like any other high profile profession. Maybe you can't afford the stones anymore,since you can't even buy an original strat,you by a cheap Japanese model now that suck's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-18 03:51 by stonesfrk.

Baboon Bro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> They didnt play 'good' or 'well' in 1978.
> They were on fire.

some of the '78 shows are pretty shambolic, actually. The performances that exist on Handsome Girls are absolutely brilliant however so that tends to give a bit of a lopsided perspective of the tour as a whole, but they certainly did have a few off nights.

I agree, Gazza.
1975 and 1978 strike me as the most obvious "off nights/on nights" tours.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baboon Bro Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They didnt play 'good' or 'well' in 1978.
> > They were on fire.
>
> some of the '78 shows are pretty shambolic,
> actually. The performances that exist on Handsome
> Girls are absolutely brilliant however so that
> tends to give a bit of a lopsided perspective of
> the tour as a whole, but they certainly did have a
> few off nights.


How much were tix on the 78 tour?

i missed 78. 75 I think I paid $8.50, festival seating in Greensboro, NC; 81 paid like $16 or $20 for a seat in Orlando.

I have a few comments. I usually get angry when someone attacks the Stones as I have become so attached to the band over many years. Perhaps that should not be, but it is. But I will try to put that aside.

You only saw one show live and one on video on this tour, yet you use only these two shows as a barometer to judge the current state of the Stones?

You made several comments about Keith or Ronnie not knowing what song it was that they were playing -- you really think they don't know what song they are playing at a given moment? Mistakes and errors they have made for as long as they have been around, but I think you take this too far.

Yes, they definitely do it for the money. Not for a minute do I think this is their end all and be all. They could have quit some time ago. I think they keep on like the old black bluesmen who do it for the money, and for the love of the music. I can see it in their faces on stage.


theplexiglass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-19 02:36 by timbernardis.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Baboon Bro Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > They didnt play 'good' or 'well' in 1978.
> > They were on fire.
>
> some of the '78 shows are pretty shambolic,
> actually. The performances that exist on Handsome
> Girls are absolutely brilliant however so that
> tends to give a bit of a lopsided perspective of
> the tour as a whole, but they certainly did have a
> few off nights.

Always have & always will.
My point was the raw punkishness they show off.
Therefore I was also Mr.Threadstarter used that year
as an example.
In my ears the punk movement and its impact it had on the Stones
os the secret behind the highlights and the raw output.

What if our boys, except getting older, also has a
rarely high degree of perception vis-a-vis the contemporary music.
As I got it, rock music and popular music is in a deep lowmark period
since some months now...

+ 1 Tim - except, I'm sure Mathijs has seen & heard loads of more shows.

Mathijs - I can hardly believe what your writing.
You know how it is - with on and off nights.
I'm quite sure you've been thru it aswell, there's loads of (little/big) things to critisize, of course.
You sound so frustrated in your initial post.
C'mon, you've been workin' crowds - you know what makes 'em go
when I see Keith coming on stage - he's not walking - he's hovering/ floating on stage - and thats the big difference about you/me/the rest of the world --->and Keith.
You're bored with Ron's B-bendings in Japan? go listen to Glasgow!
He's been thru hard times, but he got better and better again.

C'mon, cheer up mate.
Summer's coming + the Rolling Stones

I think they TRULY love to play. therefore, I love to watch them do so.

I know what year it is and I don't go to shows thinking it's 1969.

My last show was 2 of the NO SECURITY ones but I've followed them live in a way since then with DVD's, CD's, YouTube, and Boots. They sound fine in some ways and lacking in other ways but I've read enough on the board for the last few years to really feel that Keith and Ronnie have good nights and HORRIBLE nights. Let's face it, you soak your brain with that much Alcohol and dope for decades it's gonna show up sooner or later. I've heard Keith play leads on say SFTD that were SO off that it sounded like a beginning guitar student..... I don't know EXZCTLY how bad the situation is but IMHO if it wasn't for Jagger keeping himself so physically fit and having the proper attitude the band would definitly be on it's last legs if not already long gone, He's the one that keeps the WHOLE thing together, no doubt......

I have to agree with one thing. They did look more on the ball in the 3 Bridges to Babylon shows I saw than in the 6 Bigger Bang shows I attended. Having had loads of statistical training, I don't know whether I should conclude anything from that in that those shows may or may not have been representative of how the Stones were then and how they are now.

While some shows have been better than others, however, one thing they did have in common: I had a @#$%& great time at every single one of them. You see I don't know anything about music and I don't go to the shows to hear them play the right chords (B here, C there, etc.). In fact, I don't really give a damn if they do. I recognize the mistakes because I heard those songs thousands of times, but I also heard enough versions of them to know that mistakes have been part of the shows ever since they have played live. I do, however, go to the shows to see them play with energy, to see them fire up the crowd, and to experience yet again the sound of those the guitars going through my spine. On all those counts, I think the magic is still there. And I never faulted them for making money; in their position, I would also milk this cow dry. I don't give a rat's ass about what their motives are. As long as they keep playing, I'll be there within the limits of what I can afford (and possibly a tad beyond, judging from my credit card debt). If their shows cease to do much of anything for me (or become too expensive), I will just stop going. But I hope I won't be so presumptuous to think I know better than all those people who still enjoy it.

well said