Just got home from work and am listening now. Dig dang, this just rocks like a MF'er!

When The Whip Comes Down sounds like the version used on Sucking In The 70's to my ears. Can anybody verify?

I was listening to Handsome Girls on my Ipod on the way home but there is nothing like having the real deal cranked up and rattling the windows.

Erik_Snow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Britney Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Yes I did a quick comparison with my audience
> > > source. The real marker is the Mick Houston
> > intro
> > > as described by Joss.
> >
> > its not unusual for KBFH to use a spoken intro
> or
> > between song dialogue from a different show to
> the
> > one that preceded or follows it. same with
> > official releases too
>
>
> You are right in your reasoning Gazza...comments
> between songs are often from different shows than
> the following/previous number in broadcasts and
> official albums.
> But why would there be a comment about Houston in
> this web-airing, if everything else there comes
> from Detroit ? Sounds very strange.

Oh, my, it COULD be possible that Mick forgot where he was for a moment. Also, if he knew it could be part of radio broadcast, it wasn't uncommon for him to mention other cities (perhaps, in this case, to maintain continuity)? Who knows?

cbtaco19 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> When The Whip Comes Down sounds like the version
> used on Sucking In The 70's to my ears. Can
> anybody verify?
>

Yep it is.

a few comments. First off, you folks are way ahead of me on whats out on boots so Im certainly not trying to challenge that. Theres been some mention that a lot of the stuff on Wolfgangs of various types is already out there. My conclusion from that would be not that Wolfgangs got it from boots, but rather the stuff has already been leaked from the BG Archives in the past..... Ive listened to the "Houston" marker a bit..Im not hearing "houston" particularly...sounds more like "have a stone"..haha..is this place in the show where Mick flashes the crowd? Seriously, I cant tell what it is, but its bad freaking pronunciation if its "Houston". And finally I just sent an email to WVault trying to see what they say all about this, including the Houston thing. Hopefully will get something more than a generic "of course it is"...

cbtaco19 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just got home from work and am listening now. Dig
> dang, this just rocks like a MF'er!
>
> When The Whip Comes Down sounds like the version
> used on Sucking In The 70's to my ears. Can
> anybody verify?

yes. Thats been long documented to come from the Detroit show.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> cbtaco19 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When The Whip Comes Down sounds like the
> version
> > used on Sucking In The 70's to my ears. Can
> > anybody verify?
>
> yes. Thats been long documented to come from the
> Detroit show.


Right. And this official "Sucking In The 70's" release shows no copyright remark like "kindly licensed by King Biscuit" or something. So the story I heard might be true that the 1978 material was supplied by the Stones and not recorded by King Biscuit itself. According to this story, the Stones delivered finished mixes of several songs from several 1978 shows to King Biscuit which they thought were "suitable" for broadcasting. The master reels with the mixes delivered to King Biscuit showed Mick Jagger himself as the "Producer" and were supposedly done at Compass Point Studios, Bahamas.

I'm convinced it is all Detroit 1978. Most (if not all) the previous information regarding 1978 shows was simply not correct.

Whatever it is he is saying: The same words are heard on the audiencesource of the Houston show. The in between song comments before When The Whip Comes Down are also not present on the audience source. It's possible that a Houston remark was inserted in a Detroit show, but then again it would also be very possible to insert non Detroit song in a "Detroit" show.... It could also be that the audience source assigned to Detroit is not Detroit after all. Maybe someone has the time to make an in depth comparison between the Wolfgang show and other sources.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-02 15:08 by Britney.

retired_dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gazza Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > cbtaco19 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > When The Whip Comes Down sounds like the
> > version
> > > used on Sucking In The 70's to my ears. Can
> > > anybody verify?
> >
> > yes. Thats been long documented to come from
> the
> > Detroit show.
>
>
> Right. And this official "Sucking In The 70's"
> release shows no copyright remark like "kindly
> licensed by King Biscuit" or something. So the
> story I heard might be true that the 1978 material
> was supplied by the Stones and not recorded by
> King Biscuit itself. According to this story, the
> Stones delivered finished mixes of several songs
> from several 1978 shows to King Biscuit which they
> thought were "suitable" for broadcasting. The
> master reels with the mixes delivered to King
> Biscuit showed Mick Jagger himself as the
> "Producer" and were supposedly done at Compass
> Point Studios, Bahamas.

No, this story is not correct. King Biscuit was a spin-off from the Bill Graham / Ahmet Ertegun corporation. Bill Graham had started the Fillmore West and later on Fillmore East, and had started his own record company / publishing company under several different names. He then started a publishing deal with Atlantic's Ahmet Ertegun. The deal was mainly that Graham booked artists in his venues (including Winterland), and these performances were recorded for release in any way, including radio. In early 1973 KBFH started braodcasting these perfromances, as well as other performances all around the world. Part of the deal was that KBFH could broadcast the material as much as they wanted, but the artist held the rights to it. As the concerts were recorded profesionally, lots of artists released the recordings on album as it was a cheap way of releasing a good sounding live album. For this exact reason the Brussels 1973 gig by the Stones was recorded, but due to a conflict with Allen Klein it was not released on album but only broadcasted on KBFH.

Mathijs

Britney Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whatever it is he is saying: The same words are
> heard on the audiencesource of the Houston show.
> The in between song comments before When The Whip
> Comes Down are also not present on the audience
> source. It's possible that a Houston remark was
> inserted in a Detroit show, but then again it
> would also be very possible to insert non Detroit
> song in a "Detroit" show.... It could also be
> that the audience source assigned to Detroit is
> not Detroit after all. Maybe someone has the time
> to make an in depth comparison between the
> Wolfgang show and other sources.

I have a Detroit audience recording that's supposedly the complete show. I'll compare the two but I'm not sure when I'll have time to. Maybe this weekend?

Ok..........I downloaded Urban Steel's FLAC files of this show and I'm quite impressed. To me it's the best show of the tour that I've heard in soundboard quality. Any opinions??? Also sounds to me like a different mix than the "Handsome Girls" material.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, this story is not correct.

At least this part is correct:

"The master reels with the mixes delivered to King Biscuit showed Mick Jagger himself as the "Producer" and were supposedly done at Compass Point Studios, Bahamas."

I saw those master tapes personally at the N.Y. King Biscuit offices when they were transferring their stuff to digital at a time when I was negotiating licensing deals for several King Biscuit recordings. The masters I saw were stereo masters, not multi-tracks. I asked if those multitracks of complete shows were still in the King Biscuit vaults, and the guy told me that in case of this 1978 stuff he was really not sure, and that it might be a case of the artist delivering the final mixes which would of course mean that the original multitracks were still in the Stones' hands. However, the stereo masters had those Compass Point sheets glued to their boxes and clearly stated: "Producer: M.Jagger". Problem at the time was that King Biscuit did not have their whole tape inventory in their computers and the bulk of their tapes were not in New York, but at Iron Mountain. The guy promised me to find out several times, but although I reminded him several times too, he never did.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-02 21:13 by retired_dog.

retired_dog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > No, this story is not correct.
>
> At least this part is correct:
>
> "The master reels with the mixes delivered to King
> Biscuit showed Mick Jagger himself as the
> "Producer" and were supposedly done at Compass
> Point Studios, Bahamas."
>
> I saw those master tapes personally at the N.Y.
> King Biscuit offices when they were transferring
> their stuff to digital at a time when I was
> negotiating licensing deals for several King
> Biscuit recordings. The masters I saw were stereo
> masters, not multi-tracks. I asked if those
> multitracks of complete shows were still in the
> King Biscuit vaults, and the guy told me that in
> case of this 1978 stuff he was really not sure,
> and that it might be a case of the artist
> delivering the final mixes which would of course
> mean that the original multitracks were still in
> the Stones' hands. However, the stereo masters had
> those Compass Point sheets glued to their boxes
> and clearly stated: "Producer: M.Jagger". Problem
> at the time was that King Biscuit did not have
> their whole tape inventory in their computers and
> the bulk of their tapes were not in New York, but
> at Iron Mountain. The guy promised me to find out
> several times, but although I reminded him several
> times too, he never did.

Yes, this is true. Jagger himself produced both the 1973 and 1978 material, in order to be sure that the broadcast would be as good as possible. he also selected the songs by himself. This is one of the reasons why the Brussels material has two mixes, which is most clear on Brown Sugar. The first mix has no sax, while the second mix by Jagger has the sax and better separation. As far as I understood, jagger did NOT go through the 1981 material, and this is the reason why there are several songs on the 1981 broadcast that are of lesser quality.

Mathijs

I don't read or post very often so I just noticed this thread. Anyway, here's what Wolfgang SHOULD be playing for 1969: [www.bootcity.org]

FACES----03/07/1975 Swing Auditorium

I believe this was just added???




[concerts.wolfgangsvault.com]


Kenney Jones - drums
Ian McLagan - piano, organ
Rod Stewart - vocals
Ron Wood - guitar, vocals
Tetsu Yamauchi - bass

Everything you ever wanted to believe about rock ’n’ roll is true, and here’s proof: five of the scrawniest, scraggliest moppets in all the kingdom scraped themselves up off the pub floor, climbed on stage and created magic.

In the wake of calamitous label mismanagement that left one of the most important bands of the mod/psychedelic movement creatively hog-tied and practically bankrupt, Small Faces singer/guitarist Steve Marriott jumped ship to form Humble Pie with Peter Frampton (things must have been desperate!), setting the best rhythm section in Britain adrift on a sea of ale without a captain. So prodigious were Marriott’s talents that it took two musicians to fill his shoes. Luckily, a couple of guys that would soon be among the most recognizable and popularly adored rock stars in the world found their social calendars surprisingly wide open at the dawn of the ‘70s.

And so it was, with Ron Wood contributing thick and fuzzy slide guitar and Rod Stewart out front wheezing like the Stax horn section after a carton of unfiltered Pall Malls, that the Small was dropped from their moniker and the tight R&B focus was dropped from their sound in favor of a hard and sloppy brand of country-soul. The result was crude perfection – like the Stones with a glassy-eyed grin instead of a sneer. Sadly, nothing beautiful lasts forever, and the Faces, such as they were, couldn’t compete with the rocketing stardom of their jet-setting singer’s solo career.

This concert, recorded shortly before their demise, is a good example of what was right and what was wrong with the Faces. After bassist/singer Ronnie Lane’s unceremonious exit from the touring version of the band, live sets played out rather like a Rod Stewart solo gig. Those familiar with the near-flawless rock ‘n’ folk of Stewart’s first few solo records will recognize some of his mega-hits and equally brilliant, lesser-known songs (as well as a questionable taste in cover material which would later mar his reputation); but sorely missed is Lane’s country heart-ache and distinctly English humor. Woody and the boys hold it together just barely, providing the ramshackle performance and rollicking good time that the punters paid to see. Particularly great are a slow and loose version of Sam Cooke’s “Bring It on Home to Me” and the classic “Stay with Me,” featuring a breakdown that threatens to literally breakdown.

Their reputations as musicians and generally wild and crazy guys guaranteed ample opportunities following their break-up, and the members of the Faces would go on to support the best in the industry, most notably the Rolling Stones (Wood, McLagan) and the Who (Jones). But even when playing with giants, these lads were hard-pressed to match the well-crafted chaos they first made together.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-03-07 15:53 by Bingo.