StonesTod Wrote:
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> listen dc-stoner - i can't take your list
> seriously if you're gonna rate Self Portrait
> higher than mt, l&t, another side, oh mercy,
> desire, times, infidels...you gotta be kidding me.
> even dylan would scoff at that....


well...i'm a pretty big dylan fan... nobody owns the truth....i don't think dylan would scoff at that.... what he would scoff at would be the critics and their conventional wisdom.... critics such as greil marcus who panned self portrait...i think self portrait is a great album to put on on a sunday morn.. and on many of the songs he's got his nashville skyline voice which is wonderful.... but maybe i could have given self portrait a B or B+.. still i'd rather listen to self portrait than any of the albums you listed as being better...

i also disagree with what you said up above about dylan not putting out an album to promote his tour.. thats the main reason he puts out albums these days.....he has a need to tour permanently and to get people to see him he has to drum up business....if he ccould avoid it he'd never put out albums..

Time Out Of Mind is a completely sterile affair thanks to Daniel Lanois which seems to go right against the grain of Bob's favoured and more effective recording practice. It's completely lacking in life and vitality - it's soundscope sound being entirely artificial.

Modern Times and its predecessor Love And Theft sound more like genuine Bob albums with a lot more energy and spontaneity - Time Out Of Mind is just music by numbers.

7/10. A good one.

A good album, but a little over-rated IMHO. B to B+

The band is top-notch, but most of the fast songs sound like standard bar-band blues shuffles. I find it hard to tell one from the other. But, Bob keeps on groovin and you have to give him a lot of credit for his dedication to his craft. He never bows to any vision but his own. Keep on rockin Zimmy.

(my 1000th post!)

Karl

Edward Twining Wrote:
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> Time Out Of Mind is a completely sterile affair
> thanks to Daniel Lanois which seems to go right
> against the grain of Bob's favoured and more
> effective recording practice. It's completely
> lacking in life and vitality - it's soundscope
> sound being entirely artificial.
>
> Modern Times and its predecessor Love And Theft
> sound more like genuine Bob albums with a lot more
> energy and spontaneity - Time Out Of Mind is just
> music by numbers.

I've heard those criticisms about TOOM before - on all of two occasions - but you can't argue with songs as strong as Love Sick, Standing in The Doorway, Not Dark Yet, Trying To Get To Heaven, Highlands and Make You Feel My Love. They were the among best he'd written in twenty years. And TOOM is miles better than either Love & Theft or Modern Times.

I take it you don't like "Oh Mercy" either? Same production techniques, same really strong selection of songs, same galvanising effect on a career that had seemed to be turning into a really bad joke.

I was thinking 'bout Alicia Keys....

stoned_in_dc Wrote:
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> well it really depends on what one is rating
> against! against other dylan albums? against other
> artists?
>
> i'm hesitant to give an a+ to anything
>
> modern times is among the best i heard all year..
> but i don't think one can seriously compare it to
> blood on the tracks... or blonde on blonde...
>
> i would say that i have to rate it in relation to
> others.. and right now these are some of my
> ratings..
>
> freewheeling is A
> highway 62 A
> blonde on blonde A+
> bringin it all back home A
> john wesley A
> nashville A
> basement tapes A-
> new morning A-
> self portrait (i like it actually) A-
> another side of bob dylan B+
> times they are a changing B
> planet waves C+
> dylan a- (i love this one...i guess i just like
> the self protrait era stuff)
> blood on the tracks A+
> desire B
> street legal B-
> slow train/saved/shot of love B-
> empire burlesque C
> infidels C (i'm sorry theproduction just ruins
> this for me)
> oh mercy B+
> under the red sky C
> time out of mind A- (a true powerhouse because of
> four masterpiece songs..you have to give more
> recognition to an album that includes not dark yet
> than say modern times which while good i don't
> believe has anything on that level)
> love and theft B
> modern times B
> live 1966 A+
> bootleg series 1-3 A


Very interesting list. I like the fact that you've listed Dylan and not Down In The Groove or Knocked Out Loaded. I'd give the former a B- and the latter an A+ for Brownsville Girl and a solid C- for the rest.

I wouldn't lump the Born Again trilogy under the same rating either. Slow Train Coming's a solid A, Saved a C and Shot Of Love a B -. But that's me. I love the Born Again period - especially the tours, which are exceptional in every way. Don't think Dylan had sounded that engaged since the bitter Hard Rain show.

Self Portrait's pretty good. I can understand the flack it got at the time, because people were expecting Dylan to conform to their image of him, but that's their loss. The live stuff's pretty inessential though.

infidels should get an A just for jokerman alone, one of bob best efforts.
nikolai is right, knocked out load gets a solid A for brownsville girl, which is like a second part to the trilogy of sad eyed lady, brownsville, and highlands...nice long stream of concious thoughts by bob....

I've always liked Self Portrait as well.

jeff14 Wrote:
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> infidels should get an A just for jokerman alone,
> one of bob best efforts.
> nikolai is right, knocked out load gets a solid A
> for brownsville girl, which is like a second part
> to the trilogy of sad eyed lady, brownsville, and
> highlands...nice long stream of concious thoughts
> by bob....


Infidels could have been soooo much more though, quite possibly his greatest album of the 80s - all those great outtakes, beginning with the band version of Blind Willie McTell, Lord Please Protect My Child, Death Is Not The End and the beautiful cover of This Was My Love. Maybe if he'd waited until Knopfler had finished his tour ...

I don't agree that Something's Got A Hold Of My Heart was better than Tight Connection though. That was one of the highlights on Empire Burlesque.

KSIE Wrote:

"but most of the fast songs sound like standard bar-band blues shuffles"

That's exactly it - just tired formats. The main culprits are Rolling and Tumbling and Levee Gonna Break. Unoriginal tunes with not very inspired lyrics spoken on top of them. Slick musicianship cannot save them.

To me, 6,5/10. Or 7/10 at best. Great lyrics, as usual, but music cannot make me so enthousiastic...

stoned_in_dc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> StonesTod Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
>>
> well...i'm a pretty big dylan fan... nobody owns
> the truth....i don't think dylan would scoff at
> that.... > i also disagree with what you said up above about
> dylan not putting out an album to promote his
> tour.. thats the main reason he puts out albums
> these days.....he has a need to tour permanently
> and to get people to see him he has to drum up
> business....if he ccould avoid it he'd never put
> out albums..

Actually, I own the truth. bought the rights a couple years back. and dylan has scoffed at Self-Portrait on several occasions. So there.

you're dead wrong about the albums and touring. he tours regardless of material to promote. again - stick with stonestod - he owns the truth.

Four Stone Walls Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> KSIE Wrote:
>
> "but most of the fast songs sound like standard
> bar-band blues shuffles"
>
> That's exactly it - just tired formats. The main
> culprits are Rolling and Tumbling and Levee Gonna
> Break. Unoriginal tunes with not very inspired
> lyrics spoken on top of them. Slick musicianship
> cannot save them.



come on, I'd have thought that the line "sooner or later/U2 will burn" on "Rollin' And Tumblin'" would have kept the Bono-haters on here in raptures...

StonesTod Wrote:
>
> Actually, I own the truth. bought the rights a
> couple years back.

There's a couple of things I'd prefer the wife not know about, if you can help me out a little bit.... :-)

I respect stoned's opinions, even like Self Portrait a little bit meself. The one I would have to question is his rating of "Dylan". This was outtakes from Self Portrait!

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> stoned_in_dc Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > StonesTod Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >>
> > well...i'm a pretty big dylan fan... nobody
> owns
> > the truth....i don't think dylan would scoff at
> > that.... > i also disagree with what you said up
> above about
> > dylan not putting out an album to promote his
> > tour.. thats the main reason he puts out albums
> > these days.....he has a need to tour
> permanently
> > and to get people to see him he has to drum up
> > business....if he ccould avoid it he'd never
> put
> > out albums..
>
> Actually, I own the truth. bought the rights a
> couple years back. and dylan has scoffed at
> Self-Portrait on several occasions. So there.
>
> you're dead wrong about the albums and touring. he
> tours regardless of material to promote. again -
> stick with stonestod - he owns the truth.



Actually Tod,I own the Truth. At least Jeff Beck's version of it anyway!

StonesTod Wrote:
>
> Actually, I own the truth. bought the rights a
> couple years back. and dylan has scoffed at
> Self-Portrait on several occasions. So there.
>
> you're dead wrong about the albums and touring. he
> tours regardless of material to promote. again -
> stick with stonestod - he owns the truth.

i stand by my post.
self portrait is a very good dylan album as are the so called outtakes (can anyone seriously tell me "lily of the west" is not a killer track?).. you ought to know by now not to trust what dylan says to the press by the way...


i think you misunderstood: of course he tours regardless of having new material to promote. he could not care less about the new material or about selling records...all he cares about is touring.. he records albums once in a blue moon (he hates it) in order to have the album out inthe press and the stores so that people hear about him and say "oh gee maybe i'll go see bob..he's coming to tow)..the album promotes the tour not the other way around

don't think so, dc. if that were the case, you'd have to explain why bob plays his material so much on the road. I believe he played 7 of the new ones at his last show, for instance. bob doesn't just play anything - he plays songs that he likes - so if he likes these newer tunes, that tells me he wasn't just going thru the motions of recording material because "it was time to."

Sweet, would have to agree with you__on both points(and NO I have not been doing tequila shots!!). But this one is growing on me. Never been a huge Dylan fan, Must go back to piano lessons, and getting rapped on the knuckles for being off key. (j/k) wonder if Bob ever owned a metronome?
Amazing that his son sounds similar but better




at this point A- someday baby..starts off too much like Thunder (which is my fav)


sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know, I have been listening to it, and it
> is a little hard to get into. It might take a few
> listens. It is hard to get past that croaking
> voice sometimes. My favorite so far is Thunder on
> the Mountain.

button_your_lip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sweet, would have to agree with you__on both
> points(and NO I have not been doing tequila
> shots!!). But this one is growing on me. Never
> been a huge Dylan fan, Must go back to piano
> lessons, and getting rapped on the knuckles for
> being off key. (j/k) wonder if Bob ever owned a
> metronome?
>
>
> at this point A- someday baby..starts off too much
> like Thunder (which is my fav)
>
>
> sweetcharmedlife Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I don't know, I have been listening to it, and
> it
> > is a little hard to get into. It might take a
> few
> > listens. It is hard to get past that croaking
> > voice sometimes. My favorite so far is Thunder
> on
> > the Mountain.

Hiya LIp! Welcome back,how was Xmas? Hey didn't Eric Clapton do a version of Someday Baby,on his blues album,From The Cradle,or is that a different song?

And no,I have not been drinking Tequilla shots either.(yet). In fact I tried to quit drinking,but somebody started another drinking thread and they talked me back in! lol

Why thank you! It was great__hope yours was too.

about the song...are you thinking of this one from Clapton?

Someday after Awhile
(by freddy king and sonny thompson)

Ive got to ride that lonesome train.
My heart is heavy with aches and pain.
I said but someday, someday baby,
After a while, you will be sorry.

Every day my clouds are grey;
It takes you to roll all those clouds away.
I said but someday, someday baby,
After a while, you will be sorry.

Trouble, trouble, trouble on my mind.
Trouble, trouble, way down the line.
I dont need, I dont need no sympathy,
So babe, babe, dont you, dont you pity me.

I may be blue, but I dont mind,
Because I know way down the line,

<b>I said someday, someday baby</b>

After a while, you will be sorry

>
> Hiya LIp! Welcome back,how was Xmas? Hey didn't
> Eric Clapton do a version of Someday Baby,on his
> blues album,From The Cradle,or is that a different
> song?
>
> And no,I have not been drinking Tequilla shots
> either.(yet). In fact I tried to quit drinking,but
> somebody started another drinking thread and they
> talked me back in! lol

Yeah, that's the one BYL. The old brain doesn't work so well up here in the thin air.

LOL..hot air balloon? or big bear?

button_your_lip Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOL..hot air balloon? or big bear?


South Lake Tahoe-The vacation compound AKA The Fortress of Solitude.

Awesome! have fun....~

button_your_lip Wrote:
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> Awesome! have fun....~

Woould be a lot more fun if UCLA would have won last night. They beat sc and lose to Fla.ST. what the ffffffffffff...............

LOL! ugggggg.......on any given day....

Respecting the so called triology:
1. TIME OUT OF MIND
2. LOVE AND THEFT
3. MODERN TIMES

All this rating business. Either you like it or you don´t like it or you like a bit or whatever. It´s especially ironic to rate a Dylan album since the man himself is so utterly above that kind of thing. Excuse me for being a bore.

StonesTod Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> don't think so, dc. if that were the case, you'd
> have to explain why bob plays his material so much
> on the road. I believe he played 7 of the new ones
> at his last show, for instance. bob doesn't just
> play anything - he plays songs that he likes - so
> if he likes these newer tunes, that tells me he
> wasn't just going thru the motions of recording
> material because "it was time to."


i think he plays the new songs because he probably does like them and because thats what you do for people who come to your show.... when i go see dylan again i want to hear some new songs...

i never said he was going through the motions.... i'm sure he puts it all on the line when he records an album.. but he hates recording albums.... he's on record talkign about what a drag its cutting an album.he's on record talking about how the songs don't come to him anymore.. and there's a reason he's essentially recasting old songs as his own.. he just doesn't have anything that pressing to say..this isn't the bob dylan of the 60s that was like an antenna ..a sponge absorbing what was aroudn him and regurgitating it back in song form..

there's nothing wrong or bad about what dylan is doing but its hard to believe that his recasting of a blues song like rolling and tumbling means all that much to him....

i guess what i'm trying to say is i think bob dylan just loves playing live.. its what he does....i don't think it matters much what songs he's playing... he just likes to play...a new album helps him get more of an audience and thats why he recorded a new album.... by this point in his career he doesn't have that much to say....doesn't mean i don't like the new album.... the stones are similar in a way.....they don't have much to say.. people want a new album by them but i'm sure they look at recording a new album as a drag...