Yeah to totally different bands both playing mighty fine. I agree that Europe '72 had a lot of overdubs, but so does all the stones live discs...

Both great periods, and different, so appreciate them both for what they are, great music.

As these have been my two favorite bands since the 60's I have to weigh in. I also would not try to compare them, given their different visions of where to take the music - but I have known an emormous number of music fanatics that count these as their two favorite bands over the years, so there is certainly room for both. I have to see this degenerate into a slapfest, cause I love both bands.

I first heard Brussels as the King Biscuit Hour back in 74 or 75, and acquired it as Tour De Force in 80 or so - it is in my car 24/7 - I keep it there in case I have to go fast (it happens frequently). In terms of sound and performance, arguably the Stones finest hour as a live act.

In a lot of people's minds, the Dead boot that occupies this place in their world is Cornel Univ, Barton Hall in May of 77, which includes the jaw-dropping Scarlet Begonias / Fire On The Mountain jam. In this case, this is straight off of a radio simulcast (no overdubs), so you get the sound and feel directly.

For those that don't think the Dead can rock - just pull up Archive.org, go to the dead bootleg from 6/16/74 at the Iowa State Fairgrounds (my first Dead show), and stream Around 'N Around - an epic performance where they interject a chord modulation after the second solo that kicks this right into the stratosphere. Seriously, check this out ...

The Greatful Dead 1972 European Tour:

04-07-72 Wembley Empire Pool, London, England
04-08-72 Wembley Empire Pool, London, England
04-11-72 City Hall, Newcastle upon Tyne, England
04-14-72 Tivoli Concert Hall, Copenhagen, Denmark
04-16-72 Aarhus University, Aarhus, Denmark
04-17-72 Tivoli Concert Hall, Copenhagen, Denmark
04-21-72 Beat Club, Bremen, West Germany
04-24-72 Rheinhalle, Duesseldorf, West Germany
04-26-72 Jahrhundert Halle, Frankfurt, West Germany
04-29-72 Musikhalle, Hamburg, West Germany
05-03-72 Olympia Theater, Paris, France
05-04-72 Olympia Theater, Paris, France
05-07-72 Bickershaw Festival, Wigan, England
05-10-72 Concertgebouw, Amsterdam, The Netherlands
05-11-72 Rotterdam Civic Hall, Rotterdam, The Netherlands
05-13-72 Lille Fairgrounds, Lille, France
05-16-72 Radio Luxembourg, Luxembourg
05-18-72 Kongressaal, Deutsches Museum, Muenchen, West Germany
05-23-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England
05-24-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England
05-25-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England
05-26-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England

The Dead final 4 European shows in London setlists. Notice the shuffling of the setlist. One extraordinary thing that I really admire about the Dead was their extended run at venues. They did this throughout their history. Yet night after night, they would go onstage and just change the setlist at will. Yes there was a lot of noodling but these musicians came to play and play long and hard.

05-23-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England (Tue)

1: Promised Land, Sugaree, Mr. Charlie, B. T. Wind, Tennessee Jed, Next Time, Jack Straw, China Cat> I Know You Rider, Me & My Uncle, Chinatown Shuffle, Big RxR Blues, Two Souls, Playin In The Band, Top Of The World, Rockin Pneumonia, Mexicali Blues, Good Lovin, Casey Jones
2: Ramble On, Dark Star> Drums> Dark Star> Morning Dew, He's Gone, Sugar Magnolia, Comes A Time, GDTRFB> Not Fade Away> Hey Bo Diddley> NFA E: Uncle John

05-24-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England (Wed)

1: Cold Rain, BIODTL, Mr. Charlie, Deal, Me & My Uncle, Hurts Me Too, Dire Wolf, B. T. Wind, Chinatown Shuffle, China Cat> I Know You Rider, Playin In The Band, You Win Again, Jack Straw, Casey Jones
2: Rockin Pneumonia, Mexicali Blues, Black Peter, Truckin> Drums> Other One> Sing Me Back Home> Sugar Magnolia, Lovelight E: Saturday Night

final "Hurts Me Too" - final Pigpen "Lovelight" - "Mexican Hat Dance" tuning before "Truckin" - "Hurts Me Too" and "You Win Again" appear on "Europe '72" - also: NRPS

05-25-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England (Thu)

1: Promised Land, B. E. Women, Big Boss Man, B. T. Wind, Tennessee Jed, Mr. Charlie, Jack Straw, China Cat> I Know You Rider, Me & Bobby McGee, Good Lovin, Playin In The Band, Brokedown, Casey Jones
2: Me & My Uncle, Big RxR Blues, Chinatown Shuffle, Ramble On, Uncle John"s Band> Wharf Rat> Dark Star> Sugar Magnolia, Comes A Time, El Paso, Top Of The World, GDTRFB> Saturday Night

final "Top Of The World" - final Pigpen "Good Lovin" - also: NRPS

05-26-72 The Strand Lyceum, London, England (Fri)

1: Promised Land, Sugaree, Mr. Charlie, B. T. Wind, Loser, Next Time, El Paso, Dire Wolf, Two Souls, Playin In The Band, He's Gone, Cumberland Blues, Jack Straw, Chinatown Shuffle, China Cat> I Know You Rider, Not Fade Away> GDTRFB> Not Fade Away
2: Truckin> Other One> Drums> Other One> Morning Dew> Other One> Sing Me Back Home, Me & My Uncle, Ramble On, Sugar Magnolia, Casey Jones E: Saturday Night

"Truckin" and "Morning Dew" appear on "Europe '72" - final "Chinatown Shuffle" - final "Mr. Charlie" - final "Next Time" - final "Two Souls"- also: NRPS

mstmst Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In a lot of people's minds, the Dead boot that
> occupies this place in their world is Cornel Univ,
> Barton Hall in May of 77, which includes the
> jaw-dropping Scarlet Begonias / Fire On The
> Mountain jam. In this case, this is straight off
> of a radio simulcast (no overdubs), so you get the
> sound and feel directly.

mstmst,

I was at the show the next night in Buffalo in May of 1977. I just downloaded the show last week. Franklins Tower is a piece of work. One of the best Bertha's that I have heard so far.

Sicilian - You're a Lucky guy,

I made the St Louis show also in May and a show in KC in October - 77 was a great year for the Dead ...

Bravo Winter ...well said. I love the Dead & most of their music. The parking lot scene is/was great. Many a guiatar player hanging out. I brought my guitar to a stones show in Florida a few years back & not only did I not see any other players around ..I hardly saw anybody else. Everybody went right in! The Dead & Stones share simular influences & have covered many of the same songs. I could do w/out some of the Deads longer jams that seem to lack direction..but that is just my personal prefernace. I would love to see Weir w/ Keith & Ronnie playing Wang Dang Dootle! Mick on harp. Can you imagine what Red Rooster would sound like? All Over now? Not Fade Away, Lovelight? ..the possibilites are endless. I had a chance to chat up Weir recently at a Ratdog show in Boca Raton ..asked him about his preference for playing slide guitar in standard tuning as oppossed to open tuning. After all is said and done..the Stones are still my favorite band but the Dead have a treasure trove of original & cover matierial that has inspired & educuated me. I highly recomend any musician to check them out.

... and AM uninformed about the hip way to call san francisco whatever your neighborhood wants to be called...so i fail the frisco hip test...(but i passed the electric kool aid acid test!)

Good One!

as for your proud claim to being "a veteran of 100 Dead shows," all i can say is the brain cells are your loss, because i said nothing critical of the Dead or their music or the effin Frisco scene at all...not one word...and you have no idea whatsoever what my relationship to their music might be...

Don't recall that I mentioned anything critical of your opinion other than if you didn't ever see them then you missed out on some great experiences IMO!

yes i am uninformed, and your post did not offer the special information; is it a frisco secret? is there a secret handshake? so thanks for a personal criticism...with no corresponding information...is everybody in frisco so uptight?

I believe if you read more carefully you would see I did offer the secret handshake.........."The City"

glad i grew up in nyc, we had our own fillmore...and my twenty two years in cal were on santa monica and venice beach...rather than rice a roni land...that's what the insiders call it right? I'm just guessin' but it's got a good ring to it...

Rice a Roni comment is a bit lame and certainly VERY OLD but whatever. Would like to have gone to the Fillmore East but circumstances just never worked out.

ryanpow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BluzDude Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why do San Fransicans get pi$$ed of when you
> call
> > their city Frisco,
>
> I dont...


I don't think anyone "gets pissed off"......cept a few people who take everything as a personal insult or slap in the face when your just trying to have a little fun on a rainy day!

No Expectations Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ryanpow Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BluzDude Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why do San Fransicans get pi$$ed of when you
> > call
> > > their city Frisco,
> >
> > I dont...
>
>
> I don't think anyone "gets pissed off"......cept a
> few people who take everything as a personal
> insult or slap in the face when your just trying
> to have a little fun on a rainy day!


I think we can equate this to a thread a few weeks ago. some members of this board always call them The Rolling Stones....never, The Stones.

That's what that Frisco, San Francisco is all about. I think people who live, as I did for eight years, are proud of their beautiful city and like to refer to it as it's full name...San Francisco. You rarely hear people who live in The City call it Frisco.

San Francisco, Frisco or whatever, all I know is that someday I wanna get there and visit that humble city. I've never been there and always wanted to check it out. Including wine country and the redwoods.

Beautiful city and people! Great place to walk, and take the street trams, and soak in the culture and history. And it is a small city and very accessable. And wine country is simply stunning. I was there last summer for my best friend's wedding in Sanoma Valley, and it was fantastic. Some of the best food and wine I have ever had.

Just beware, San Fran is cold! Even in the summer! But the minute you head into the valley the team rises.

The Sicilian Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> San Francisco, Frisco or whatever, all I know is
> that someday I wanna get there and visit that
> humble city. I've never been there and always
> wanted to check it out. Including wine country and
> the redwoods.

You will never want to leave. Go to 145 Fillmore Street, near Haight Street. Take the N Judah street car, hang a right at the big yellow building on Duboce. It's on the Left side of the street. I lived there for six months in 1982. And check out the Cliff House for a smashing view and vintage funk.

"The coldest winter I ever spent was summer in San Francisco." Mark Twain

Great to see so many Stones fans also Deadheads, myself and many of my friends are huge fans of the Dead. Wish I was able to see them play in the 70s.

San Fran is a great city. A few years ago I picked up a nice hand blown glass water pipe from a shop on Haight/Ashbury. Lots of cool Stones items to find around there as well.

Did anyone here actually get a chance to see the Dead's European tour of 1972?

Crazy question.

I love the Dead and '72 was great but '73 Stones is the rock and roll holy grail imho.