Another question that one could ask is why he never played the Dead Flowers solo live either. Sticky Fingers contains Keiths greatest recorded guitar work in my view.

yeah, that's interesting, taylor really only has 1 1/2 featured songs on Sticky Fingers, out of 9 total: "Sway" (where mick is playing the heavy riffing) and "Can't You Hear Me Knocking."

He doesn't have all that many spotlight moments on Exile, either.

keith's solos (soli? ugh) on "WH" are great, I think probably the first I really noticed in a song, listening as a young lad. It's brilliant how he shifts from "major" to "blues" scales.

To yap yap - just to clear one point:

there's 2 of us on this board, sometimes on the same thread
OpenG and open-g


PS: I agree with ChrisM>>Open G asked a simple question and some of you lot turned it into a Ronnie bashing thread.<<

Keith wrote the song and the main guitarpart is the rhythmguitar in open G. So it makes sense he plays that part live and leave the fills to Ronnie.

ChrisM wrote:
>Another question that one could ask is why he never played the Dead Flowers solo live either.

I've always wondered who played that solo on SF, but I concluded is was MT. Or is it not him?

That was Keith playing the Dead Flowers solo RnT! The style, phrasing and sound are as distintive as a finger print.

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That was Keith playing the Dead Flowers solo RnT!
> The style, phrasing and sound are as distintive as
> a finger print.


Interesting. The last few phrases of the solo remind me a bit of the end of the solo in Star Star, so I've had my doubts about this in the past, but still regarded it as MT's.

Also, there is the general consensus from www.timeisonourside.com to the guitar magazine in which Slash cites MT's DF solo as one of the greats, but of course consensus proves nothing.

In addition, there is the "channel" identifier. On Side A, Taylor is in the left channel; on Side B he is in the right channel, except for MM where MJ pushes him to the other channel. And the guitarist in the right channel seems to be picking out the notes of the chord during the verses as Taylor seemed to do in DF on the 1970 tour (and he seems to have done this quite a bit in his live shows with the Stones, as in YCAGWYW and TD on Brussels '73).

So the phrasing is more "angular" and less lyrical than MT's typical approach, but it has a structure that seems to be more like him than KR. Also, the use of both high strings and extended phrases in the low strings seems more characteristic of MT than KR.

Can you articulate a bit more about the phrasing that identifies it as KR? Incidentally, thanks for challenging my preconceptions about this. My favorite DF solo is on Live at Leeds and I had thought the performers were the same.

2 answers to this question: (and in order to avoid a silly RW-Taylor debate)

# 1) Keith plays lots of guitar parts on Wild Horses, amongst many other stones songs. He can't play 2 acoustic guitars, and an electric all during the same song. It doesn't make sense to compare Stones studio songs and live songs so precisely. they are entities in themselves; Keith plays great bass on Sympathy, but no one wants to see him strap on a bass for that song in concert. Mick Taylor played a great bass on Tumbling Dice, but no one wanted to see him play bass on that tune. Keith plays the studio solo on that song, but most performances of TD from that era have Taylor playing the solo, which I'm sure everyone enjoys very much; I doubt the Stones care very much about who played what on the album at this point. (and of course Keith could still play the solo if he wanted to, though it might not be as "beautiful).

#2)

Who needs anyone else, when you have this.

To be honest, Keith playing the solo in the studio version is news to me!

I always presumed it was Mick Taylor. This is quite a pleasant suprise actually and just another reason to love Keith more.

I can fully understand he reason for Taylor doing the solo live however. If he didn't, what would he of actually played exactly?

x



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-01-18 01:01 by Beelyboy.

The answer to the main question is simple IMO. Keith thinks the openG-tuning suits the song best, and clear away from the solo part because his chords are nicer with that tuning. Since 1994, they have salso skipped the solo part on the verse, and I think they did that because the song gets too long. On those parts Ronnie did beutiful solos on the 75/76 tour.

>> It doesn't make sense to compare Stones studio songs and live songs so precisely. <<

ohh thank you JMoisica - the "X plays it on stage so he must've played it in the studio" school of thought
has never made sense to me (nor does the "X plays it on stage so he must've written it" notion).
but i digress. have some popcorn

keith plays outside the penatonic box not often using the blues scale and outside to a few major notes,IE locked away etc. I guess he likes his comfort zone and staying in the box to get the joy out of playing his angular riffing
style.

most of the solo is played on the B string and G string so i guess you could play the solo in open g and get around using the e string which would be tunned
to d if you kept the 6th string but keith chooses to use only 5 strings.

The best part of Keith`s studio solo is on the verse. They have skipped that part since 1994, and given Ronnie the lead on the F/C-break where openG is a must IMO.

The solo on Wild Horses is Taylor. Keith does all the fills in the left channel, Taylor all the gentle picking in the right channel. The solo guitar sounds like a one-taker, ad it's absolutely Taylor.

Mathijs

no its not we had a big discussion over on micktaylor.net a few years back and
even taylor admitted to a taylorite that keith played the solo when asked.

if you listen to ITCHY Fingers there is keith's bad attempt at the solo and i have always wondered how he got that final clean solo back in london.you are correct taylor is a ONE take Player .but the solo is keith

OpenG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> most of the solo is played on the B string and G
> string so i guess you could play the solo in open
> g and get around using the e string which would be
> tunned
> to d if you kept the 6th string but keith chooses
> to use only 5 strings.

Not sure what you mean--it's the _low_ "E" that he removes. That said, I'm glad you point out that there's no reason he couldn't play the solo while also in open G.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-14 16:51 by cc.

i no its the low e sorry 1st string

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The solo on Wild Horses is Taylor. Keith does all
> the fills in the left channel, Taylor all the
> gentle picking in the right channel. The solo
> guitar sounds like a one-taker, ad it's absolutely
> Taylor.
>
> Mathijs

The solos both here and in "Dead Flowers" have a bright, chirpy tone that I associate with keith, and none of the licks that to me are taylor's trademarks. It's possible that taylor was still in transition in terms of his sound--whereas from '72 on he pretty much always sounds the same to me--but it's just as possible that keith transcended his usual limitations for these solos, as he periodically did in the studio.

JMoisica Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> #2)

Who
> needs anyone else, when you have this.

Why is keith using a capo on this version? Do they play it in A?

ron does a great job, but his tone on the strat is already kind of a mess. Too much noise somewhere in the signal path.

It's 100% keith.

I can't imagine two full solos by taylor without one vibrato!

C

Smokey Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you articulate a bit more about the phrasing
> that identifies it as KR? Incidentally, thanks
> for challenging my preconceptions about this. My
> favorite DF solo is on Live at Leeds and I had
> thought the performers were the same.

The elements that mark this solo as Keith's to my ears are the ghost notes he employs, the accents behind the beat and the pick attack. Keith tends to pick the strings hard whereas Mick does not and this cna clearly be heard during the guitar breaks. The same applies to Wild Horses.

I'm very surprised that Mathijs states that the Wild Horses solo is Taylors. I had thought the same until I read in a guitar magazine interview with Mick wherein he stated that Keith played it. The vibrato, when used, is distinctively Keith's as well as the elements I mentioned above regarding Dead Flowers . Mind you, I have not heard a solo from Keith with such singular grace and delicacy before or since. Mathijs, could you please expound as to why you think Mick Taylor plays the Wild Horses solo? Your arguments are usually persuasive and I'd be interested to hear them.

Yes, the Knebworth version of Wild Horses was done in A - for the only time as far as I know.

Is there still actually a debate as to whether the solo is Keith or Taylor? I thought everyone had pretty much accepted the overwhelming evidence (including Taylor's concession) that it is Keith.

I can understand people questioning how Keith could play such an exquisite solo seemingly beyond his usual style and capabilities, but anyone who has overdubbed guitar in the studio knows how you can construct a solo beyond your "live" capabilities by punching in and out wherever you want to fix mistakes, etc.

Anyone still doubting that it is Keith should listen closely to Keith's solo on "Wilderness of Love" off the Pay Pack & Follow C.D. Many of the same stylistic elements are present as in the Wild Horses solos.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-14 21:02 by Jed Clever.

Jed Clever Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is there still actually a debate as to whether the
> solo is Keith or Taylor? I thought everyone had
> pretty much accepted the overwhelming evidence
> (including Taylor's concession) that it is Keith.

That's my view as well but I'm still interested to hear why Mathijs thinks Mick Taylor played it. It will take a rather convincing argument to convince me otherwise but I'd still like to hear what he has to say.

Another question regarding this song is which guitar did he use for the solo? To my ears it sounds like a Fender, probably a Telecaster, with the bridge pickup only through a Fender, probably a Twin. Does anyone really know for sure?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-14 20:59 by ChrisM.

I have also read about Mick Taylor saying that solo is Keith, maybe the same interview. Never really heard anyone mention that its Taylor, this is news to me. I can see how one may just assume its him.

ChrisM Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Smokey Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you articulate a bit more about the
> phrasing
> > that identifies it as KR? Incidentally, thanks
> > for challenging my preconceptions about this.
> My
> > favorite DF solo is on Live at Leeds and I had
> > thought the performers were the same.
>
> The elements that mark this solo as Keith's to my
> ears are the ghost notes he employs, the accents
> behind the beat and the pick attack. Keith tends
> to pick the strings hard whereas Mick does not and
> this cna clearly be heard during the guitar
> breaks. The same applies to Wild Horses.
>
> I'm very surprised that Mathijs states that the
> Wild Horses solo is Taylors. I had thought the
> same until I read in a guitar magazine interview
> with Mick wherein he stated that Keith played it.
> The vibrato, when used, is distinctively Keith's
> as well as the elements I mentioned above
> regarding Dead Flowers . Mind you, I have not
> heard a solo from Keith with such singular grace
> and delicacy before or since. Mathijs, could you
> please expound as to why you think Mick Taylor
> plays the Wild Horses solo? Your arguments are
> usually persuasive and I'd be interested to hear
> them.


Thanks ChrisM. I'll listen a bit more. Are "ghost notes" the ones that seem to come out of nowhere? I thought they were just bad edits.

By ghost notes I mean notes that are not so much played as subtly ariculated or implied.

Ive always liked the gituar solo on wild horses and always thought it was Mick Taylor. That's why I come here!

because he's playing open g guitar during that solo :-) I'm drunk now, sorry.

Keith still does solo's in open G......he could do the solo to "Wild Horses" in open G because the three middle strings are the same as a standard tuned guitar.....its' a really nice solo he did on the studio version.....if you'll notice though, Ronnie will often throw in Keith licks from the studio version when he does it live.....I would love to hear a live version with Mick Taylor but it was only played once or twice (the first show<s> of the '71 English Tour).