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The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Turd On The Run ()
Date: August 14, 2006 21:35

I posted this opinion on another thread...but I am curious as to what the faithful have to say about the Stones and their rapidly diminishing mystique and credibility in light of the news that they've agreed to play at a politician's Birthday party...and I don't mean just this absurd Birthday party. There seems to be a general sense of loss-of-something this summer during this tour. I detect an undercurrent of disappointment...canceled concerts, Ronnie Wood's wildly erratic musicianship, the predictable and calcified set-lists, the cast of thousands backing band...something seem slightly amiss. Or is it just my imagination...runnin' away with me...?

The idea that the Rolling Stones are playing at a "Birthday Party" for Bill Clinton, or Hilary Clinton...or ANY politician for that matter...is unsavory and repellent to me. This is not what The Rolling Stones were, are, or should be. I apologize if my opinion upsets long-time fans...and they can kiss my ass. The Stones are hallowed to me...they are worthy of respect and dedication...and this is beneath them. If they were looking for a forum to be filmed by Martin Scorsese they could have easily had a charity concert for the real fans - not the Liberal Elite Glitterati for whom they will be merely a sideshow - and asked all their real fans to pay high-priced tickets to benefit AIDS, Homeless Children, or any other charity of their choosing. We would have all been more than happy to pay and attend...and we would have been proud of them. The concert could have been a relatively intimate affair like the one planned, or it could have been in Central Park with 800,000 people attending. We would not have cared. We would have supported them, and been very proud of them. But not this. As it stands I am deeply let down. The Rolling Stones of 1962-1983 would have spit on a band that did something this crass and tawdry...selling themselves out as house-band to the left-wing [or right-wing...or chicken-wing...regardless]'Establishment Elite'. Putrid. The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility and I'm not sure the bleeding can now be stopped. Is it greed? Is it ignorance? They've become so...RESPECTABLE...

"For what has a man profited if he gains the whole world, and loses or forfeits himself?"
Luke 9:23:25

...or perhaps more appropriately;

"Well now we're respected in society,
we don't worry 'bout the things that we used to be,
we're talking heroin with the President,
yes it's a problem sir...but it can be bent!

Now you're a pillar of society,
you don't you don't worry 'bout the things that you used to be,
you're a rag trade girl, you're the Queen of Porn,
you're the easiest lay on the White House lawn,
GET OUTTA MY LIFE...
DON'T COME BACK...
YOU'RE SO RESPECTABLE!!!!!!!!!!!" [Jagger/Richards 1978]
[lyrics modified as they were sung on that tour]

Diamond rings, Vaseline, you gave me disease, well, I lost a lot of love over you.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Leonard Keringer ()
Date: August 14, 2006 21:49

too much fame and fortune and time has laid waste to the best of them

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: sdstonesguy ()
Date: August 14, 2006 21:51

"I apologize if my opinion upsets long-time fans...and they can kiss my ass."

So you don't apologize, and want to insult people...got it.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: RollingStoner ()
Date: August 14, 2006 21:56

I just hope they can revive their image during the US tour this fall. The European Tour seems to be quite a bust. I was blessed to attend 3 shows in the US that had widely varried setlists. I've been to a few Bob Dylan shows this year, and found them very enjoyable. I read that last year he performed 165 different songs. Everyone there, both casual and hardcore fans, seemed to enjoy the shows equally. At least Bob realizes the depth of his catalouge. I wish the Stones could have the same revelation.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Leonard Keringer ()
Date: August 14, 2006 21:57

the Stones are on the money-making auto-pilot

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: RnT ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:00

It's been coming for a long time. The former attitude of rebellion is long gone. I guess it's very hard to maintain that attitude when you become as big, rich and old as the Stones and your leadsinger even gets a knighthood. Maybe it's part of growin'up. And times have changed offcourse. In the 60's and 70's there were not many politicians and corperate leaders that liked the Stones. It was a different generation. Nowadays leaders grew up with the Stones. So your right, they are respected in society and yes, it takes away a bit of the former mystique. But so does the internet...

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: scelsa ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:18

Turd, you right on.

You think Keith would have let dave f-n matthews or that idiot justin timberfake on stage with THE STONES in the 70s?????

I think NOT!

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: J-J-Flash ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:19

Good post, as a long time fan I hear where you are coming from and take no offense to it at all. I have always been one of those people that would stand up for the current Stones up until about a year ago. The rebel thing has been gone for quite a while which doesn't really bother me, however this sort of thing with Clinton rubs me the wrong way, not so much that they are doing it but they only seem to care about doing these sort of things while thy don't seem to give a crap about their long time fans. Yeah maybe what they are doing is good if you never saw the Stones and wanted to introduce someone to the band that has never seen them before, its like taking your kids to Disneyland. The music keeps getting further and further back on their list of priorities.

I am amazed they continue to barely play anything from their new album and coast on posing on the big stage while Mick, Chuck and Charlie carry the band. I almost find them tough to watch and follow these days because its such a disappointment. So I have been watching a lot of my old Stones dvds and listening to ABB hoping the Stones will come to their senses. It is so weird to me that the band I have loved and worshipped my whole life is in the middle of a tour right now and I don't give a damn, and that they are annoucing more tour dates and I am not bothering to get tickets. Sad day indeed.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: barbabang ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:20

Don't like it either. They should never play a gig for any political party or ex presidents (although it is for charity) That is totally NOT what the Stones (used to)stand for.
The fact that Scorcese is going to film them is a good thing though. A pitty that such an occasion is used for it.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:22

Unfortunately, TOTR's argument is beginning to "Sway" me. Afraid it's finally all about the $$$$. Turd's first paragraph makes a lot of sense.

That said, they are still the best live act in the world and, yes, I've seen U2, Bruce, Macca, and The Who.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: ohnonotyouagain ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:24

There are things the Stones have done on this tour that bug me, but this isn't one of them. They are human beings, they are allowed to have their political views. I suspect they really don't even care about the politics that much anyway and are just doing it for the money.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: StratoGR ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:54

Keith is the one who makes me angry here.Beacuse Keith has said about Mick's knighthood that the stones are not this thing.Ok that was Mick's desicion for himself.Now that this is for the whole band why keith you agree to participate on this crap?How much more money do you want.I mean you have money and so you got options instead of an old artist who noones remeber and with the first money he plays for everyone.
All the band should wake up and look back to their history.How a band like this came to this point.Everything you have done is destroyed with wrong decisions on the latest time of your carreer.You have done many silly things like Timberlake but this is over the top.Shame on you.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: PiotrRSpl ()
Date: August 14, 2006 22:59

Turd On The Run Wrote:

>
> The idea that the Rolling Stones are playing at a
> "Birthday Party" for Bill Clinton, or Hilary
> Clinton...or ANY politician for that matter...is
> unsavory and repellent to me. This is not what The
> Rolling Stones were, are, or should be.

Correction: with all due respect you're not the one who can decide what Stones should be. Also if The Rolling Stones are going to play at Bill's b-day it means they are going to do this - so that's what they are actually and you might like it or not. And also it's for charity. Plus we might get a nice DVD out of this. So what's the big deal if it's Bill Clinton birthday party or something else. During Licks they played private show on one millionaire's birthday.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: ohcarol ()
Date: August 14, 2006 23:24

John Lennon said this in his Playboy Interview: "LENNON: "Do you want to go back to high school? Why should I go back ten years to provide an illusion for you that I know does not exist? It cannot exist."LENNON: "I never went to high school reunions. My thing is, Out of sight, out of mind. That's my attitude toward life. So I don't have any romanticism about any part of my past. I think of it only inasmuch as it gave me pleasure or helped me grow psychologically. He also said this: "LENNON It's all right when you're 16, 17, 18 to have male companions and idols, OK? It's tribal and it's gang and it's fine. But when it continues and you're still doing it when you're 40, that means you're still 16 in the head." he said that last one about the Stones but mabey it applies to some of us! Time some of us grow up and not live back in the good ol days. Hey, Its only rock n roll!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-14 23:30 by ohcarol.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: stoneMe ()
Date: August 14, 2006 23:31

Well said Turd On The Run, Youv'e put into Words what I've been Thinking for along Time. Its becoming Embarassing

Ever Danced with a One Legged Woman?

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Beelyboy ()
Date: August 14, 2006 23:32

x



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-12-06 08:09 by Beelyboy.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: J-J-Flash ()
Date: August 14, 2006 23:40

PiotrRSpl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Turd On The Run Wrote:
>
> >
> > The idea that the Rolling Stones are playing at
> a
> > "Birthday Party" for Bill Clinton, or Hilary
> > Clinton...or ANY politician for that
> matter...is
> > unsavory and repellent to me. This is not what
> The
> > Rolling Stones were, are, or should be.
>
> Correction: with all due respect you're not the
> one who can decide what Stones should be. Also if
> The Rolling Stones are going to play at Bill's
> b-day it means they are going to do this - so
> that's what they are actually and you might like
> it or not. And also it's for charity. Plus we
> might get a nice DVD out of this. So what's the
> big deal if it's Bill Clinton birthday party or
> something else. During Licks they played private
> show on one millionaire's birthday.


When the Stones promice theater shows at a press conference before a tour and even state what the prices for the shows would be, than don't do any theater shows except one for an ex-president that no average fans can realistically afford I think all of us have a write to be pissed. Especially those that bought RS memberships hoping for a chance to see them at a smaller venue.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Jed Clever ()
Date: August 14, 2006 23:58

The commercialization would be more palletable if it weren't more and more evident that the "wheels are coming off" at the same time.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Date: August 15, 2006 01:33

J-J-Flash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PiotrRSpl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Turd On The Run Wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > The idea that the Rolling Stones are playing
> at
> > a
> > > "Birthday Party" for Bill Clinton, or Hilary
> > > Clinton...or ANY politician for that
> > matter...is
> > > unsavory and repellent to me. This is not
> what
> > The
> > > Rolling Stones were, are, or should be.
> >
> > Correction: with all due respect you're not the
> > one who can decide what Stones should be. Also
> if
> > The Rolling Stones are going to play at Bill's
> > b-day it means they are going to do this - so
> > that's what they are actually and you might
> like
> > it or not. And also it's for charity. Plus we
> > might get a nice DVD out of this. So what's the
> > big deal if it's Bill Clinton birthday party or
> > something else. During Licks they played
> private
> > show on one millionaire's birthday.
>
>
> When the Stones promice theater shows at a press
> conference before a tour and even state what the
> prices for the shows would be, than don't do any
> theater shows except one for an ex-president that
> no average fans can realistically afford I think
> all of us have a write to be pissed. Especially
> those that bought RS memberships hoping for a
> chance to see them at a smaller venue.


I have the cd of the 2005 press conference and it still pisses me off to listen to Cohl say that they are still going to do the three different types of shows only not all in the same city or cities this time.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: straycatuk ()
Date: August 15, 2006 01:48

SAD SAD SAD

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: stone-relics ()
Date: August 15, 2006 01:48

Face it boys and girls, its been a nice run...but the Stones as a band are in their death throws...there best is behind them now, so let them go out the way they will, and enjoy the shows, as I will likely catch them somewhere in the US....its sad but true. Remember them the way you want to....I love them too, but its time...

JR

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: bassplayer617 ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:13

OK, the bashers gather en masse. Hope this means you'll give up the ghost and abandon this board en masse. Start your own "Anti-Stones" forum. You know, kind of a yin-yang thing.

In other words, what the hell are you doing here? You've given up? Fine, then -- get lost. There's no point in trying to drag everyone else down the toilet with you.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:18

Hey!!! sometimes I have to perform for rich
chicks...But it dont mean that I've sold out...!!!



ROCKMAN

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: stone-relics ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:20

aint no one bashin' 'em...its just time...Face the facts, mate...no one can go on forever....it aint no captitol crime to call a spade a spade....

JR

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:23

Turd On the run, I think the tour is going pretty good. theyre getting older, and there are certain things that arent the same any more, but Im satisfied with how things are going. I aint losing any sleep over it.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: La Mano Nera ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:50

You guys are all full of shit. The only people giving a flying @#$%& about Bill Clinton are the pesimistic tight wads in this topic. You think Keef gives two shits about politics? It's just another gig (for chairty, no less).

Honestly, how are the Stones any different now than they were in 1964? Keith still falls from coconut trees, Mick still @#$%& the hottest girls on the planet, Charlie still plays the drums, and Ronnie...still does Ronnie things.
Even so, it ain't up to them to piss on gas stations anymore. I'm 18, and I still think geezer Keef is the most badass badass on the planet, and I wouldn't mind living Mick's life for a second. Isn't that how it's been since the begining?

I think now it's time for the current generation to piss on people fore courts and put Mars Bars in girl's virginias. What was that that Keith wanted on his tombstone? "He passed it on".

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: ryanpow ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:53

Also, to people who are bothered by this Clinton concert, what do you think of Dave Mathews, Bruce Springesteen and R.E.M. and others doing concerts as part of the last presidential election? by your guy's logic, those guys should have NO crediblilty left.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-08-15 02:56 by ryanpow.

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Gazza ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:54

La Mano Nera Wrote:
>> I think now it's time for the current generation
> to piss on people fore courts and put Mars Bars in
> girl's virginias.

now i know why they called it Sweet Virginia.... smiling smiley

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: La Mano Nera ()
Date: August 15, 2006 02:56

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> La Mano Nera Wrote:
> >> I think now it's time for the current
> generation
> > to piss on people fore courts and put Mars Bars
> in
> > girl's virginias.
>
> now i know why they called it Sweet Virginia....
> smiling smiley

Wadin' through the waste...

Re: The Stones are bleeding mystique and credibility...
Posted by: Markdog ()
Date: August 15, 2006 03:42

At this point they are gonna get shit on for every thing they do and every thing they don't do.

Many of us see (or saw) the Stones coolness as an extention of our own personalities and therefore by default, our coolness too....when they start doing things that are not seen as cool (or credible) it affects many Stones fans personally.

I considered myself a huge Stone fan (ask my wife, friends they all know) till I came here, but I have never been THAT big since they started back in '89.

So as Ryanpow said I ain't losing sleep over it....

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