Even as a kid, I'd read enough about the Stones to know Ron Wood had something to do with the inception of IORR, & when I saw "Inspiration by RW" on the inner sleeve I assumed it was a cynical avoidance of sharing writing credits (just as had happened with Taylor and, perhaps, others) unless absolutely unavoidable as with 'Ventilator' & the Nanker Phelge songs. Imagine my surprise when - after 10 years of owning the Virgin CD remaster - I noticed two credits on the original LP "Black & Blue" had been mysteriously removed on the CD! I mean, would Mick be so petty as to proof-read old liner notes for potential hazardous material? But as oldtimers know, "Hey Negrita" carried the credit "Inspiration by Ron Wood" and "Melody" said "Inspiration by Billy Preston" which I again assumed was a semi-acknowledgement of compositional credit that required no royalties be paid. Alas, these meagre bread crumbs have been swept off the inner sleeve of my B&B CD (the ltd edition cardboard-cover supposed facsimile of the lp issued in '94)....Tsk, tsk, everything else in place too, except minor publishing info...

Bill Wyman has been introducing "Melody" as a song written by Billy Preston.

We all get cynical as the time goes by.....

Ther's no space on the cdr, when writing with a felt pen

Casual jewel case Virgin edition has that info You're mentioning so it's only the case with the special cd edition...

Adam

[www.ce9.uscourts.gov]


well you'd have to be a lawyer, which i am not, or crazy, which i am, to go this link...which tells the of another stones related publishing tale in legal writ:
the whole longass story 'bout stop breaking down and love in vain and abkco and the various legal appeals...wins and losses...for years in the courts...
ultimately, after many appeals going to johnson's original publisher(s), mebbe estate....

it's tooth and nail alla that stuff...
i hazily remember some controversy about it when let it bleed album first came out...i have to dig it out and look at the album slicks and see how it was credited originally on that release...some day...
i think 'trad' arrangement by stones...i dunno...
all i can think of now is taylor's traaiiinnnn leaving the staionnnnnn
sliding and roaring and mourning and all powered up all at the same time.

It's not that complicated: credits are legal entities that can not be removed by the owner or by any other person. These legal entities earn you a lot of money in the case of the Stones. Wood wrote IORR together with Jagger, but they made a deal: Jagger would get IORR, and Wood would get Can You Feel the Fire. The "inspiration by" credit is not a legal entity, but nothing more than a nice gesture, a nod to a friend. It does not earn you any money, and can be removed from a record sleeve just as a record sleeve can be changed by the artist.

About Robert Johnson: when all the songs by Johnson were rereleased in the early 60's they were free of rights: Johnson never registered his songs, and the original company's rights were finished after 28 years. In the early 60's there was no family that reclaimed these rights. So, if you covered a Johnson song in the '60's you would either credit "tradd. arr", or, if you changed the styling of bits of the lyrics, you could credit it to yourself. In the 90's Johnson grandson (or step son, or something like that) went to court claiming that he was holding the right, and that was granted by the court. The rights to Johnson's songs is worth about $1 million a year in credit rights. Since his son holds the rights, all credits from Johnson's songs have to be changed, therefore the Stones' Love in Vain credits changed from Tradd.Arr. to "R. Johnson".

Funny thing is that when the Columbia 2-disc set of Johnson song's came out, both Columbia and every artist whom ever recorded a song by Johnson attributed these songs to the Johnson estate, except ABKCO! ABKCO went to court claiming that Johnson's songs were part of the public domain, at least before 1978. IN the end, the court ruled against ABKCO.

Mathijs

"Under the 1909 Act, an unpublished work was pro-
tected by state common law copyright from the moment of its
creation until it was either published or until it received pro-
tection under the federal copyright scheme."

This is pretty confusing, although I did not read the case carefully. It says that common law protection continues until the work is "published OR until it receive protection under the federal copyright scheme."

If "publication" = registration under the federal copyright laws, then this seems to make no sense, unless there are other ways to "publish" a work.

If Ronnie Wood, Bill Wyman or Mick Taylor were big song writers then I would expect them to release solo albums with material from time to time. Like Mick have done, or Keith. But after all these years, it seems like these guys are more into performing than actually writing songs on their own. It is a very long way from a riff or an inspirational beat and then into a song that can stand on it's own. That is the difference between improvisation and song writing.

Bjornulf

Ron Wood has 11 albums!

Ronnie's given us *very* ample demonstration of his creative abilities.
(which Stone has the most solo albums out, with their own compositions on them?)

>> In the 90s Johnson's grandson (or step son, or something like that)
went to court claiming that he was holding the right, and that was granted by the court. <<

it was Robert Johnson's son, actually.

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

So then we should just be content that Jagger and Richards alone wrote about 99% of the material. Have Mick and Keith wrote any great songs on their own as solo artists? Songwriting is not such a cut and dried affair. I believe that the other members of the band, particularly Brian Jones and Mick Taylor, should have deserved some songwriting credits because their contributions were instrumental in shaping those songs. But Mick and Keith want the world to know that they alone were the creative minds behind every song. Yeah, I'm sure Keith not only told Brian to play the dulcimer in Lady Jane and sitar in PIB, but how to play those parts as well . . .

Wood has 11 albums, and he was the main writer behind the faces and Rod Stewarts' solo output from 1969 until 1975. However, he shares the same bill with George Harrison: both are guitarists behind a writers' duo so talented, that your songs will always be regarded as second.

Mathijs

Mathijs, I guess my sense was that J/R wouldn't bother inscribing on an inner sleeve 'inspiration by...' as regards a particular song unless that individual inspirer had some significant input (as with IORR). Not surprising IORR received the J/R credit, it certainly was the shrewd choice in terms of royalties as opposed to "I Can Feel The Fire." And thanks for noting that Wood was indeed a major composer with Faces, and has written or co/written many fine songs. Oddly Wood and Rod (maybe even Hopkins) have more composing credits on "Beck-Ola" than the guitarist/titular leader himself (who managed to let Jimmy Page grab sole credit for 'Beck's Bolero' on his very own album!)...After all, nobody bothered adding "Inspiration by Mick Taylor" for "Time Waits" or "Winter." Nick Kent (in "Dark Stuff") claims Taylor, given a copy of the IORR sleeve graphics, was very upset when he realized he got no co-writing credit on "Time."

Its not Robert Johnson's son. The guy's name is Robert Lockwood, Jr. (he used to record and perform as Robert Jr. Lockwood) and he claims his mother lived with Robert Johnson and that Johnson taught him to play guitar. He considers Johnson his stepfather. He's now a living legend in Cleveland, Ohio and embraced by the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame. Fifteen years ago or so he did a regular stint at blues club in Lakewood, Ohio called Brothers on Detroit Road (if anyone knows the area). A local Cleveland band called Gangsters of Blues (typical eighties hair band with a cool name) used to open for him most nights, nice guys but poseurs. I became a major blues fanatic because of my love of The Stones around that time. My best friend in high school became the host of a popular college radio blues show and we ended up having dinner with Lockwood in between sets one night. Like one of my favorite blues players, James Cotton, the guy treated me like crap and made racist remarks to me when I said I was turned on by The Stones. His animosity was more than financial, he considered white artists who loved the blues to be shams and did everything but spit on me. James Cotton was a different matter, his guitar player brought us backstage to meet him and Cotton flew into a rage because a white kid was backstage. This was at a club called Wilbert's in Cleveland. Anyway, the City of Cleveland ended up renaming a street Robert Lockwood Jr. Boulevard. I see it everyday when I go to work and it always leaves a pit in my stomach. I'll always revere Muddy Waters, Bo Diddley, Little Walter, Jimmy Reed, and Willie Dixon. I've had the pleasure of speaking with Mr. Diddley a few times and he was gracious to meet a then-young person who knew his work and was a real gent encouraging me to keep listening and telling me to keep playing harmonica (the limit of my musical ability). As an impressionable kid, his kindness meant a lot to me. I haven't played a James Cotton CD since the incident with him. I never thought much of Robert Jr. Lockwood and felt Cream and the Stones' arrangements of Johnson's songs were the key that made them great in the first place. On his own, the guy was fairly bland. Compared to Muddy's delta blues recordings, Robert Johnson was an amateur.

oh rocky; I was right with your very interesting post...
all the way up to that last sentence.
man...
except for that... ty for post.
takin' nothing from muddy's incredibly deep & long-term unique output...
(and indelible contributions in true spirit beyond the words of it...)

i'm no historian or expert obviously...
but that johnson stuff is sometimes like your very last friend who 'gets it' on some kinds of days...just u and him. u know.

it's too deep on both counts to compare in a way that diminishesthe other... like we do a lot of times here 'bout different stones eras and other bands and stuff...

but honestly thank you for your take on lockwood and alla that; knew nothing about it...find the whole story interesting.

well but Robert Lockwood Jr ain't who i'm talking about, Rocky Dijon.
in 1998 or 99 Claud Johnson was legally recognized as Robert Johnson's son and heir.
here's a bit about the story - the excerpts from the court transcripts are priceless:
[www.gilesmusic.com]

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well but Robert Lockwood Jr ain't who i'm talking
> about, Rocky Dijon.
> in 1998 or 99 Claud Johnson was legally recognized
> as Robert Johnson's son and heir.
> here's a bit about the story - the excerpts from
> the court transcripts are priceless:
> [www.gilesmusic.com]
>
> Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way

with sssoul: aw, that's great. this keeps getting better & better...
that testimony was great; and the stuff about that ol' gravel truck...
all those years, endless litigations and pretenders, then finally...it's like the beverly hillibillies....what an amazing guy and story. i love it. ty.

smile: yeah it is a great story - glad it grooves you, Beelyboy.
and just because it's beautiful, a photo of Keith's photo of Robert:


- 1990, by Antonin Kratochvil (courtesy of BrownEyedGirll)

Keith, be well - all the way, baby, all the way



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-16 08:33 by with sssoul.

Mathijs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wood has 11 albums, and he was the main writer
> behind the faces and Rod Stewarts' solo output
> from 1969 until 1975. However, he shares the same
> bill with George Harrison: both are guitarists
> behind a writers' duo so talented, that your songs
> will always be regarded as second.
>
> Mathijs


interesting analogue - but one difference is that Beatles' albums were always graced with a Harrison track or two.....

T&A Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mathijs Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wood has 11 albums, and he was the main writer
> > behind the faces and Rod Stewarts' solo output
> > from 1969 until 1975. However, he shares the
> same
> > bill with George Harrison: both are guitarists
> > behind a writers' duo so talented, that your
> songs
> > will always be regarded as second.
> >
> > Mathijs
>
>
> interesting analogue - but one difference is that
> Beatles' albums were always graced with a Harrison
> track or two.....

ah yes..good point.
and those few contributions spoke volumes and lifted each record higher.

classic classic tracks in their entire band catalog.
made the records more fun and much more interesting.

m&k have an indestructible classic and huge catalog of brilliant stuff...
i don't see what the bigass threat would be, if that's what it i$...
i don't mean to be harsh; i love lmds and others...
but they could use a little help with material, all in all...
when u think DW to now...maybe one perfect studio in all of that...
(my choices would come primarily from VL personally) & highwire...
and only two or so max from each of the others...i m subjective opinion...

wouldn't those stones albums, recorded sometime relative to whichever ronnie project at the time...
... be better off with the best cut or two from ronnie's hand, and vokes...in each time and era?

does any of this matter and will glims ever change their ways much?
nope. lol.

(also, what with the recent thread on jagged films and mick's ongoing production work...it comes to mind that without Harrion's Handmade films,
we'd be missing classic classic and important Monty Python films...
life of brian etc...that no one else would finance or go near)
the stuff keith said about harrison in the rs magazine memorial edition was very touching and revealing and lovely.

with sssoul...great great pic...johnson clearly lookin' over things as keith looks toward the sky...ty.

yeah with sssoul, thanks for sssharing that great story of Claud Johnson. ...and I am amused by beelyboy's comparison of Claud to the Beverly Hillbillys. They both have endearing qualities.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-16 00:15 by Lukester.

that photo of robert johnson always spooked me out...

Rocky Dijon Wrote:
Compared to Muddy's
> delta blues recordings, Robert Johnson was an
> amateur.


uh-huh........and Beethoven couldn't compose a tune to save his life