Like Keith, Bill was more about groove than technical ability. Geddy Lee, for example, can play the hell out of the bass, but wouldn't work with the Stones sound any more than Satriani or Vai or Van Halen would.

The fun thing about Bill, is that he was so stiff and still (is that an expression?) on stage, but his hands was making love to his bass. He swings as nobody swungen. I don't think Darryl got the same beat, even though he is good.

very true, Erik. he loves making love to those basses. (usually basses around the age of 14)

p.s. a perfect example of this can be found on Hampton 81's version of Shattered. WOW!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-10 22:34 by nikkibong.

Erik, if you think he was stiff onstage, you ought to check out his exploits offstage! 1000's of chicks know.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-10 22:37 by Elmo Lewis.

Elmo Lewis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Erik, if you think he was stiff onstage, you ought
> to check out his exploits offstage!


Well, he was a WILD cricket player in the mid 80s......Mayhem!

Reptile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WNY Stones Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you imagine if Jones was the original
> player
> > and Wyman took his spot in 1994. All people
> would
> > say is get Jones back this new guy can't play
> or
> > swing like Jones did.
>
> No, because they wouldn't have made it this far.
> People underestimate the influence of bass
> players; Wyman is just as imporant as Charlie.
> They were the ultimate rhythm section in rock 'n'
> roll history. Now.. we have the great beat.. but
> no swinging basslines to go with it..


exactly and amen.
why can't some peeps get the obvious...
a real band is a real collection of real personalities that interact magically and chemically...special bands are special because of this ephemeral magic, mysterious quality...charlie and bill; bill a bit ahead of the beat...charlie a micro-second behind it...with that big fat swing...they rising and cascading; building tension and resolving it...amazing stuff...as the record shows.
bill is brilliant, individual, stuttering staggering; totally melodic and percussive at the same time; an original brilliant bass player in that spot...
his parts MAKE the songs as much as any of the other players...
just listen to route 66 from camden in 1964 and see it was ALREADY there...
it made the girls scream and the seats damp...the boys shout and stand right up...you could feel it in waves...it changed the world.
bill wrote his own parts and was always spectacular on record and in shows...
he was just as famous as ANY of the others to early fans...his trademark set stance as the chaos whiled around him...holding it down...forcing it up...at will.
the rhythm section...
darryl would do well to transcribe these parts and play them carefully...
he's good; eventually he'd get it...
darryl is from another time and place and influences...
i'm not saying he's a particularly bad hire...or not a nice guy...
how someone could be a stones fan; or even a rock fan...and not get Bill is amazing to me.

Reptile Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WNY Stones Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Can you imagine if Jones was the original
> player
> > and Wyman took his spot in 1994. All people
> would
> > say is get Jones back this new guy can't play
> or
> > swing like Jones did.
>
> No, because they wouldn't have made it this far.
> People underestimate the influence of bass
> players; Wyman is just as imporant as Charlie.
> They were the ultimate rhythm section in rock 'n'
> roll history. Now.. we have the great beat.. but
> no swinging basslines to go with it..

You missed my pont retile or maybe I didn't state it correctly. I'm just saying that alot of people would bitch just for the sake of complaining for no reason at all. People listen with their eyes and talk about things they know nothing about. I agree with you but I'm sick of the constant Stones bashing by people who have no idea what they are talking about.

>>>>>The interesting point is that the "most important greatest hits" songs - for example, BrownSugar, JJF, Start Me Up, Sympathy are far better with Darryl. The live Wyman versions of these songs from 1989-90 are relatively boring. Darryl's bass is full of sparks and energy. He plays with humbly, however, in some tracks his play is too thick. He plays too many notes for some of the songs.
The lowest point is the Four Flicks version of @#$%&.
Overplayed with no air, no pause, just scaling from start to end.



This is what I mean exactly. Sorry to offend all you. You are all jealous Wyman fans who can't handle that the band has improved without him. I especialy think keith plays better with Jones.

nikkibong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> very true, Erik. he loves making love to those
> basses. (usually basses around the age of 14)
>

No, that was a harp, and it was only 13

Listen to the great bass lines in Silver Train ALL Keith. Its some Jones would do. uz2bstones is right. Wyman had a great bomming sound but very lame bass lines. Eveybody talks about Respectable. That's one sond out of how many? And people say that's his best. Wow not much to say there. As far as Watts and Wyman being the greatest rhythm section in rock? Come on! What about all those great bands in the late 60's and early 70's. the Band, Chicago Dooble Bros. etc. Now THOSE ARE GREAT RHYTHM SECTIONS!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-11 00:01 by WNY Stones.

I will go so far as to say that the Stones stopped being a band in 1991.

I hope you know what I mean by "band".

That's how important Bill was.

I like some songs off subsequent albums, but none have a co-herent chemistry as "band" albums, in a way that "even" SW and DW do.

p.s. Atlantic City '89. Celbration of "band", or what?

I think it ludicrous for anyone to be so dismissive of Bill's contribution to the sound that we identify as the music of the Rolling Stones. This is true not only in their studio work, but also live. This isn't to say that Darryl is some sort of slouch. The guy can play for sure, but he has a different style than Bill and consequently the band does not sound "the same" as it did when Bill was involved. Anytime members of a band change so does the sound. I have always felt that when Stew passed away and Bill left, the swing that was so present in this band left with them to a large degree. For example, listen to the studio versions of Down the Road a Piece and Around and Around. These songs represent the swinging groove the Stones could get in those days and it was due to the original lineup. Brian and Keith playing togther was also crucial and of course there is always Charlie back there laying it down like few others can or could. Bill was a great player and helped make the Stones the brilliant band they became. Give the guy some credit musically where credit is due. Never mind that he has become a whiny old fart...

Read the title to the thread. There is a hard edge to the music starting on Voodoo lounge tour.

I don't think they rock harder now than before. The Stones music has always had an edge to it. I see your point though, as things always change.

uz2bstoned Wrote:
is what I mean exactly. Sorry to offend all
> you. You are all jealous Wyman fans who can't
> handle that the band has improved without him. I
> especialy think keith plays better with Jones.


you are right; i've seen the light;
thank goodness for multi-track!!
technically, we can isolate & erase all of bill's part from everything starting banquet!
darryl go for it.

i was so jealous but now i can handle it...

and hey, do me a small favor...don't ever listen to anything recorded before darryl again...just the darryl versions of your favorite hits that bill propelled and projected...ok? and the post-bill studio catalog...
you've got VL and some good cuts from the others for sure...
some great live versions of the hitz...
just don't worry about the rest of it.
it's beneath you.

you should have no trouble "handling" that, right?
stand by your man...and be true to your stated opinions...
wow i've got go; listenin' to little queenie from Feb '73 in Sydney...
have u ever heard that? now you never will.
nothing much really... it just screams for darryl...
so does ya-ya's come to think of it...
fate is so cruel...

Another interesting thing...
Some of the most characteristic bass themes (in the Bill era) were played by the others, not Bill...

Live With Me - Keith
Sympathy for the Devil - Keith
Tumbling Dice - Mick Taylor
Casino Boogie - Keith
Emotional Rescue - Ronnie

He played on Miss You though!

Haristone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Listen :
>
> you can change Mick for a better singer : Al
> Jarreau
> Charlie for a better drummer : Aynsley Dunbar
> Ronnie for a better guitarist : Steve Vai
> Keith for a better guitarist : John Mc Laughlin
> We already have a better bass player than Bill :
> Daryl
>
> look : we have a band that is for shure better
> than the stones. and that band would suck a lot.

Dunno... Do you really think it would suck a lot?
It sure is a weird combination of players, but it just might make a pretty exciting band.
Not sure how comfortable John McLaughlin would be on (mainly) rhythm guitar though.

-Gerland

uz2bstoned Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>The interesting point is that the "most
> important greatest hits" songs -

Bill's playing made Gimme Shelter pretty interesting on the 89 tour I think.

> It sure is a weird combination of players, but it
> just might make a pretty exciting band.
> Not sure how comfortable John McLaughlin would be
> on (mainly) rhythm guitar though.
>
> -Gerland


what would be really weird is if John Mc Laughlin of that show "The Mc Laughlin Group" played bass with the Stones.

I'm too new to start a fight in here, but (most respectfully)

the DOOBIE BROTHERS?

hrmm....

ryanpow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> what would be really weird is if John Mc Laughlin
> of that show "The Mc Laughlin Group" played bass
> with the Stones.


Never heard of. Is that a television show?

-Gerland

Garland, He's a Host of a political round table discussion type show on U.S. public TV called "The Mc Laughlin Group" (its on the PBS network). He has this thick Boston Accent and shouts really loud. Dana Carvey did a good impression of him back in the 80's on Saturday night live.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-11 04:55 by ryanpow.

texas fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm too new to start a fight in here, but (most
> respectfully)
>
> the DOOBIE BROTHERS?
>
> hrmm....


what? who are THEY? never heard of them.

where am I?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-05-11 05:11 by ryanpow.