It is lighter. He said he stopped using the 'Pauls because of the weight. The Black Gibson compared to a Tele is lighter.

There are also the tonal considerations. Keith uses to old Fender amps that just sit on the stack and he is also hooked into the small white amp that you see on stage. The Fenders are clean tone, the little 30/50 watt amp is on full distortion. Tele's by nature are cold sounding, bright and sharp. KR's amp setup gives the Tele some crunch while still allowing for the sharp, crisp Tele tone re: The Keith sound.

In terms of tone for the Gibson it is capable of a variety of sounds, soft and warm, full, fat full crunch with those PAFS, bright but with some chainsaw on it.

I think he uses it mainly for weight (notice he don't wear heeled boots no more? Sneakers, they look like painted Converse Chuck Taylor model) because he may have a back problem...he ain't a kid as we all know.

Since KR is pretty much joined at the hip with the Telecaster in most peoples mind, I am surprised that Fender never offered a KR signature Tele.

Also, consider what guitar Ron is playing on a song. They generally do not like to use similar sounding guitars, with exceptions of course, but I remember reading that somewhere. KR said something like, "If Ron is using a Gibson (when was the last time Ronnie played an electric Gibson onstage anyway?) I'll usually use a Fender" and some other examples.

Milo, NYC
Get up, stand up, don't give up the fight

Fender never offer a Keef model, because they would never meet his price. Our boy ain't no fool..The closest they came was the 52 reissue they did in th early 90s, should have put the PAF replicas in the neck

>> when was the last time Ronnie played an electric Gibson onstage anyway? <<

um ... about two days ago, probably? Ronnie uses the Firebird pretty regular,
and a couple of Les Paul Specials (i think they're Specials?);
and people were talking about a new green LP at some recent show -
that's another one i haven't seen any photos of yet ...
but meanwhile a nice pair of Gibsons in action on Midnight Rambler:


- Albany, sep 17 05, by Jake Cohl (courtesy of rs.com)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-04-01 19:12 by with sssoul.

Milo Yammbag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is lighter. He said he stopped using the 'Pauls
> because of the weight. The Black Gibson compared
> to a Tele is lighter.

Well, this just isn't true at all. A regular Tele is around 6.5 to 7 pounds, any ES-335/ES355 is between 9 and 10 pounds (especially with the Bigsby and Grovers, they add up). A Les Paul is around the 9 punds, but at Gibson's Custom Shop they can choose the wood and make them around 8 pounds.

> There are also the tonal considerations. Keith
> uses to old Fender amps that just sit on the stack
> and he is also hooked into the small white amp
> that you see on stage. The Fenders are clean tone,
> the little 30/50 watt amp is on full distortion.

No, Keith's sound is 100 the Twin cranked to full. Keith used to mix amps on stage (Boogie with Ampeg, Boogie with Twin, even Marshal Plexi with Twin) but since 1997 he only uses the Twin. But I truly don't know what the small white amp is for, I have never seen a pic from upclose. It could be a leslie of some sorts. But in any case, it's placed to low to be of any use on stage.

> I think he uses it mainly for weight (notice he
> don't wear heeled boots no more? Sneakers, they
> look like painted Converse Chuck Taylor model)
> because he may have a back problem...he ain't a
> kid as we all know.

I really doubt it. I bet his Tele Custom is close to 9 pounds, as is his '55 Butterscotch Tele. He even used the old Dan Armstrong again: 12 pounds. And again, the ES-355 is not a light weight guitar.

>
> Since KR is pretty much joined at the hip with
> the Telecaster in most peoples mind, I am
> surprised that Fender never offered a KR signature
> Tele.

They did. They build about 10, and then received a letter from Keith's lawyers. They had to stop and destroy all finished guitars. One apperently got out, and was fro sale at Maverick. Most Tele's Fender Japan offers are based on Keith's Tele's by the way.

> like, "If Ron is using a Gibson (when was the last
> time Ronnie played an electric Gibson onstage
> anyway?)

He still uses Firebirds, LP Specials and a couple of days ago even a black Les Paul.

Mathijs

thanks for all that, Mathijs! have some popcorn ...
so that's an LP Special Ronnie's got in the photo from Albany? cool, i thought it was -
maybe i'm learning something from all these great guitar lessons after all.

>> I truly don't know what the small white amp is for, I have never seen a pic from up close. It could be a leslie of some sorts.
But in any case, it's placed to low to be of any use on stage. <<

i sure wish i had the technology to save screen shots:
that little white amp is real clearly visible in a couple of the dvds i've got,
and it is indeed a Leslie - at least, that's what's written on it. :E
curious that it's up there if it's not in a position to contribute anything.


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-04-01 18:13 by with sssoul.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >> Yeah but it's a 5 string <<
>
> yeah but ... that's not immutable either.
> but you're right. good night, sleep well.
>
>
> - Charlotte, oct 21st 05 (don't know who took it,
> sorry!)
>

Yeah it is, I read the sixth string hole thingy whatever you'd call it on the bridge is filled with wax.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2006-04-01 14:06 by Reptile.

with sssoul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so that's an LP Special Ronnie's got in the photo

Yep, a '55 TV Yellow LP Special. Wood has it since the early 70's, he played slide on it on the '76 tour.

> and it is indeed a Leslie - at least, that's
> what's written on it. :E
> curious that it's up there if it's not in a
> position to contribute anything.

Aha, that's what I thought. A couple of months ago we had the same discussion, and I said it was a Leslie, used for Infamy. But I started doubting because some said it was a standard amp.

Mathijs

i remember that discussion, and was sort of surprised to see the Leslie still up there even now that Infamy's having a break.
but someone noted that they wouldn't necessary rearrange all the stage gear just because the set list's changed, so ...
so i'm waiting for Infamy to re-appear. :E


"What do you want - what?!"
- Keith

Back to the riginal question again...


I love the 335's and have no problem with their sound.

What I do have a problem with is the way Keef and Ron set their amps recently. I don't know what is going on, but it must sound good on stage or they have lost their hearing!

I love those old Fender amps - the clean sound is to die for - but you just can't beat the dirty sound of a Hiwatt or Ampeg. I know Keef didn't really go with the Hiwatts except at Hyde Park, but some of their amps have a great dirty tone - better than Fender.

Perhaps they could use the fenders for songs with a clean or crunchy sound and switch to Ampegs for the dirtier songs...

okay, another mystery solved, thanks stonesfrk! that little white amp *isn't* a Leslie - it's an Oahu:
[www.iorr.org]
i sure wish i'd noted which dvds i was watching when i was so sure it said "Leslie" on it ...

>> Back to the original question again ... I love the 335's and have no problem with their sound. <<

Keith's ebony and red ES's are 355s, and the white one is a 345.
i like the sound he gets out of 'em just fine too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2007-06-18 00:11 by with sssoul.

sjs12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Back to the riginal question again...
>
>
> I love the 335's and have no problem with their
> sound.
>
> What I do have a problem with is the way Keef and
> Ron set their amps recently. I don't know what is
> going on, but it must sound good on stage or they
> have lost their hearing!
>
> I love those old Fender amps - the clean sound is
> to die for - but you just can't beat the dirty
> sound of a Hiwatt or Ampeg. I know Keef didn't
> really go with the Hiwatts except at Hyde Park,
> but some of their amps have a great dirty tone -
> better than Fender.
>
> Perhaps they could use the fenders for songs with
> a clean or crunchy sound and switch to Ampegs for
> the dirtier songs...
>
>

At the Paris gig I heared some distictive switching on Can't you hear me knocking.
In this case it probably was the small white Ohau amp on the the main crunchy gritty riff, switching at the jazzy funky part at the end to the clean Twin sound.

btw, how long has this Ohau amp been around now?
this thread is from April 2006 and in the mean time we also learned about the Zinky booster.
also some attention should be payed to the left amp - that's not the liver colored Twin anymore, Stonsefrk pointed that out to me at the Paris gig.
but maybe we should discuss that matter at the Keith's amps thread, tho'.

i believe the Oahu (like the island) amp showed up at the start of the 2005 tour,
hence the speculation that it was a Leslie being used on Infamy.

i like the sound of the 355 best on ballads, when keiths is soloing, for example slipping away. the gibson might be heavier than the tele but is easier to fret, i thought that this might be a consideration why he is chosing it the recent tours.
i don´t like it too much and faster songs and for chord playing.
the fender sound of keith and ronnie i think is not improvable, clean and distorted.
i noticed while at b-stage in front of keiths amp that the sound is way warmer and very rough compared to what comes from the pa. i think there is a lot of eq and compression inbetween what the rolling stones hear and what we hear.

i have once played a custom shop keith richards telecaster with the humbucker in neck position in berlin american guitar shop. it was a very good guitar but doesn´t come close to the original although almost as expensive.
if i am not mistaken they still had it for sale last time i´ve been there.