I like ABB a lot. It was critically hailed and sold decent but it deserved better. They should have taken a page from Prince's playbook. During the musicology tour, every ticket holder got a copy of the new album. This kept it high on the charts for months. That caused non ticket holders to say "hey this must be good" and buy it at the store. It would cost them peanuts. They could have moved 2-3 million or more in the US alone. Would have been hailed as "a smash". That success would have encouraged them to break out a few more new tunes in the show. I love the stones, but their marketing is garbage. Oh well.

I'm frustrated ABB hasn't sold better in the States, too, but I never really felt comfortable with the Prince free cd w/ ticket concept. It's too gimmicky, and the final sales of Musicology seem artificial, inflated. Prince didn't play much from the album as I recall, and until the ticket w/cd idea his sales had been declining dramatically for many years (the glyph cd sold disappointingly, but "Come" was the first to miss the top 10 altogether and subsequent albums had very short chart lives - I recall the albums prior to "M" made barely a ripple ('Rainbow People', if that's the one w/ the 70s Miles-influenced cover). And if the Stones did something similar they'd be more openly criticized for manipulating the market or providing proof the 'ageing wrinkled rockers' are not able to sell their new music on its merits. And w/ virtually no airplay 500,000 ain't THAT bad (except compared to their past track record) - what I found inexplicable is that during the crucial 2nd leg of the US tour (1/06) the Stones dropped from 4 to 3 ABB songs, even 2 at at least one show. (Now in Argentina etc they're back up to 4) - w/ 18 new songs out, this is imo a strategic & aesthetic mistake

so how many copies has sold in US ? 500.000

thrak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so how many copies has sold in US ? 500.000


The answer is not enough.
I undrstand it when some people say some of the tunes sound like
Mick's solo stuff, but I attribute that more to the "cd format" wherein bands feel they must have 60-70 minutes on a disc. It used to be closer to 40. If they
had "edited" it accordingly, we could be talking about one of their strongest discs.

And, of course my pet peeve--one of omission--why wasn't Under The Radar on this disc??

ABB sells well everywhere, except USA. And it's a marvellous album, of course.

It was at #1 on Eurochart during two weeks. In Europe ABB was #14 best selling album in the 2005. It was - the most important - at #1 on the Worldwide Chart two weeks and it stayed on top-10 three weeks more.

ABB probably will sell about 3 million copies, worldwide. See the level of the universal sales in the last years and draw comparisons: Nowadays this number (3m) is as if a Stones album had sold 5- 5.5 million units 10- 15 years ago. ABB outsells the big majority of the recent albums of the other rock bands, including famous acts with big hype, like White Stripes or Strokes.

USA is another big story... For various reasons, the Stones fan base is much more younger in Europe. Personaly i think the factor “ticket prices” is a bit overrated in our discussions on this board. There are other reasons, deeper, cultural and musical. For example, in the States hip hop, “modern country” and “modern R&B” are attracting young people much more than they can do it in Europe. Anyway, the result remains the same: the Stones fan base is much more younger in Europe. That means much more interest about the new stuff of the band. Even in UK ABB probably will outsell BTB and that’s great in the years of downloading.

USA is the “capital” of the music industry and of the music marketing too. This fact means that without good airplay you can do nothing there. I think the extremely poor ABB’s airplay in US has partly to do with “neo-con”. Perhaps Clear Channel Communications knows something about it! Also, USA market seems very strange and unstable, real “haos” (so many kinds of music, so many artists-new and old). Real haos! A Madonna’s album sells only 750,000 units but the next her alpum sells millions. A Pearl Jam’s studio record sells millions, the other only 450,000 copies.

I find it extremely difficult to believe that "Neo Con" has much, if
anything to do with poor sales of ABB. That is really a stretch.

I also agree with the ages of the fans. I'm 27 and am about to see my 24th and 25th shows. In the 12 years I've been going, I've noticed the declining enthusiasm in the stadiums (some U.S. crowds still rock though). The ticket prices are just absurd. There are a lot of frieds of mine I've turned on to the Stones but they're not ready to drop $200 or more. Too many squares fill U.S. arenas while the fun loving fans are shut out.

I propose that at least the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the floor shoud be cheap general admission. Exciting fans up front help set the tone for the whole audience. Think of the shows you've been to, a wild crown really helps you overlook "Oh, ronnie missed a note" or things like that. The band feeds off the crowd. Give them dull, you'll get dull. Give them excitement, you'll get excitement.

As far as free CD's at concerts, it may be a gimmick, but ABB would have also been in the top 10 or top 20 for 6 months now. People notice that.

The album did deserve better, and the marketing did suck, but as long as I can still blast my copy, I really don't care. Let those with good taste dig the album, everybody else can listen to whatever awful bullshit they want.

Why not sell them at the concerts?They were selling Four Flicks instead.

Theif in the Night Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why not sell them at the concerts?They were
> selling Four Flicks instead.


That actually seems like a really good idea. Far better then giving them away a la Prince--I agree with those who find that "gimmicky".

I agree with a lot of what was posted earlier, and I am kind of surprised that stickydion is the only one who mentioned downloads so far.

This is the first studio album to be released since music downloading became big, and since so much of the downloading is illegal, we don't really know how many people have acquired the album in the traditional way of buying albums, or illegally over the net. Maybe we're looking too closely at album sales.

I don't know if the Stones should necessarily be giving away ABB at concerts, but maybe instead of putting it out in 2 different versions (regular album, and regular album plus DVD extras and extra track) maybe they could have put out the regular album and given the "extras" to the fans who bought tickets. Then the casual fan who wants to see the show (or be seen at the show) might get some of the new material and wonder how the rest of the album shaped up and actually buy the thing.

Glass Slide wrote: "I find it extremely difficult to believe that "Neo Con" has much, if anything to do with poor sales of ABB. That is really a stretch."

I said "Neo Con" has PARTLY to do with the exremely poor airplay in the US. And the exremely poor airplay affects for sure the sales. I'm not around the only "suspicious guy" who thought something like that. Glass Slide, i remind you of an older UNCAT's article (about ABB and "Neo-Con", before ABB came out):

"A Virgin spokeswoman in the US has already put out a panicky statement denying it's about Bush or anyone on the White House (can't risk upsetting Clear Channel, can we?). But if you believe that, you'll believe anything."

Why do you think a spokeswoman put out a so stupid -and panicky, indeed- statement, if not because Virgin and the Stones knew very well what the hell Clear Channel (at least) means ???

Nah, can't be NeoCon. The reason US radio ignores ABB is the same as why they ignored BTB-- it's not 'classic' Stones, and the rock radio market in the US is either 'classic' rock or 'nu' rock/modern rock. New Stones just doesn't fit either genre.

Sure, ONCE in a while, you'll hear new Stones-- large markets, syndicated shows. But mainly, US radio plays nothing by the Stones later than 1981.

Brad F, just a personal experience: I count 17 friends of mine who have ABB. Only 6 of them have bought it !! Yes, 6 out 17... A friend of mine, a man 45 years old who have not idea about downloading, said : "I asked my son, 'hey little bastard, can you bring me ABB?' And the little devil offered me, my brother and my nephew the stuff of the record. Amazing..."

everything's turnin' Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nah, can't be NeoCon. The reason US radio ignores
> ABB is the same as why they ignored BTB-- it's not
> 'classic' Stones, and the rock radio market in the
> US is either 'classic' rock or 'nu' rock/modern
> rock. New Stones just doesn't fit either genre.

the more damning statistic is the fact that the people who went to the Stones shows in America - and who obviously thought nothing of paying up to $500 for a night's entertainment - for the most part couldnt bring themselves to pay, what $15, for a CD of their 'favourite' band?

As stickydion says, it has sold pretty well everywhere but America - yet America is the only part of the world theyve toured behind it up to now. Doubly inexplicable

When it comes to marketing, its pretty scandalous that people seem more interested in buying t-shirts or some silly cheesy gimmick novelty with a tongue logo on it rather than the band's music.

Gazza Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> the more damning statistic is the fact that the
> people who went to the Stones shows in America -
> and who obviously thought nothing of paying up to
> $500 for a night's entertainment - for the most
> part couldnt bring themselves to pay, what $15,
> for a CD of their 'favourite' band?

Gazza-

I shouted (was feeling pretty good after the gig) this same sentiment on Beale Street in Memphis (last year) after the show! Of course you stated it much more diplomatically.

"Rock and roll just ain't rock and roll no more"

The whole music business and the marketing aspect has changed since most of us bought our first album or 8-track. Downloads, i-pods, mp3's, hell, just the idea of the internet was science fiction just a few short years ago. I miss the old days of bringing that album home, smoking a J, and listening to that baby for the first time. The unholy trinity of MTV, Kobain, and Rap have killed the music I grew up loving. May Rock and Roll RIP.

Got ABB cranked right now, loving it. ohnotyouagain going right now. Yeah, some threads are bashing it, some loving it, gawd sometimes I wish one of us could sit in the sessions as it's being laid down and get a chance to weigh in 'ah, no save that one for the archives. . . .or, yes, that rocks. . . but then that isn't how rock stuff really works, now should it! taking the pulse of the fans on everything isn't the way to go, we just got to let 'the boys' do their thing. I know on many releases since ''Some Girls' I'm thinking, why doesn't someone get to them or the producer or whoever and do a 'time out' that just doesn't cut it (Steel Wheels, hello?) . . and simply don't release a disc 'til it's up to a stones standard. . .that's just me. What you all think? I'm sure everyone is gonna say 'let 'em be original, but you know . . .'com on?

Right now 'Laugh, I nearly died' is screaming, that's a great tune. Lights out.

Laugh, Laugh. . . I almost died. Yes Mick!!! More songs like that!! But we love ya!

theboys

Elmo Lewis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The whole music business and the marketing aspect
> has changed since most of us bought our first
> album or 8-track. Downloads, i-pods, mp3's, hell,
> just the idea of the internet was science fiction
> just a few short years ago. I miss the old days of
> bringing that album home, smoking a J, and
> listening to that baby for the first time. The
> unholy trinity of MTV, Kobain, and Rap have killed
> the music I grew up loving. May Rock and Roll RIP.


Elmo, I know what you mean. It was always a tradition to wait. . .wait. . 'til the next Stones release, bundle up go to a store and buy the record/cd on the day it was released. . you know all the hoopla, anticipation, excitment, I'm talking 'Some Girls' & beyond. . .oh how fun, my son overhears I'm waiting for ABB. . it was several days before it was to be in the stores, I'm getting that surge, ya know, like a true stones fan. . .(I'm old fashioned anyways). . .he disapears for 5 minutes, hand me a blank CD and says 'there you go dad, ABB is on that disc' can you imagine? - I was robbed of the ritual. . .I just stood there. . .the internet is killing us all (sorry IORR), certainly my kid's generation, you don't have to get off your ass to do anything anymore!!!!!!!!!! I did go out and buy and actual ABB disc so you all know, but what a buzz kill that was.


Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name. . .

stickydion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Glass Slide wrote: "I find it extremely difficult
> to believe that "Neo Con" has much, if anything to
> do with poor sales of ABB. That is really a
> stretch."
>
> I said "Neo Con" has PARTLY to do with the
> exremely poor airplay in the US. And the exremely
> poor airplay affects for sure the sales. I'm not
> around the only "suspicious guy" who thought
> something like that. Glass Slide, i remind you of
> an older UNCAT's article (about ABB and "Neo-Con",
> before ABB came out):
>
> "A Virgin spokeswoman in the US has already put
> out a panicky statement denying it's about Bush or
> anyone on the White House (can't risk upsetting
> Clear Channel, can we?). But if you believe that,
> you'll believe anything."
>
> Why do you think a spokeswoman put out a so stupid
> -and panicky, indeed- statement, if not because
> Virgin and the Stones knew very well what the hell
> Clear Channel (at least) means ???
>
>


I don't know--for several reasons.

One, when this album came out it was kind of hard NOT to know
the Stones had a new disc and were going on tour. I couldn't turn on a TV w/o seeing them---frankly, that Ameriquest commercial (which always left me slightly queasy) was almost impossible to escape. I also heard alot of Rough Justice--which was quite gratifying as a Stones fan. Plenty of coverage in music, and more mainstream, publications.


The Stones are a name that transcends Clear Channel, assuming of course, this conspiracy to which you allude was real---if it was, I would like to see more then one 2 sentence cya statement--it is not as though they tried to release Neo Con as a single, and it did not seem to upset the airplay afforded Rough Justice.

I just threw in my son's download from September (pre release of AB it has several great songs that aren't on ABB. . .I dont' know what they're called, but one was a great groove, sort of Can't you hear me knockin', (oh baby, oh baby I miss you so much - maybe that can help someone identify the song) which was good (could have been developed a bit more?), but I couldn't beleive it didn't make the final ABB, it was so weird I kept listening for it on ABB, it's not there - so what did my son download in early Sept ,that didn't make the cut, wow, what a shame, it makes me start to wonder how all these releases really come to pass - there are at least two songs on what he downloaded as ABB in early Sept. that are not on ABB - hm?

Anybody know what I'm talkin about?

thboys

theboys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just threw in my son's download from September
> (pre release of AB it has several great songs that
> aren't on ABB. . .I dont' know what they're
> called, but one was a great groove, sort of Can't
> you hear me knockin', (oh baby, oh baby I miss you
> so much - maybe that can help someone identify the
> song) which was good (could have been developed a
> bit more?), but I couldn't beleive it didn't make
> the final ABB, it was so weird I kept listening
> for it on ABB, it's not there - so what did my son
> download in early Sept ,that didn't make the cut,
> wow, what a shame, it makes me start to wonder how
> all these releases really come to pass - there are
> at least two songs on what he downloaded as ABB in
> early Sept. that are not on ABB - hm?
>
> Anybody know what I'm talkin about?
>
> thboys


Wow!! Does this mean that "Under The Radar" is not the only great tune left off the disc?

theboys ,
can I speak to your son, please

to add to the flavor of this set of postings - my take on ABB:

" A Bigger Bang " check out:

[www.hollywoodjesus.com]

What say you?

JDD

theboys Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just threw in my son's download from September
> (pre release of AB it has several great songs that
> aren't on ABB. . .I dont' know what they're
> called, but one was a great groove, sort of Can't
> you hear me knockin', (oh baby, oh baby I miss you
> so much - maybe that can help someone identify the
> song) which was good (could have been developed a
> bit more?), but I couldn't beleive it didn't make
> the final ABB, it was so weird I kept listening
> for it on ABB, it's not there - so what did my son
> download in early Sept ,that didn't make the cut,
> wow, what a shame, it makes me start to wonder how
> all these releases really come to pass - there are
> at least two songs on what he downloaded as ABB in
> early Sept. that are not on ABB - hm?
>
> Anybody know what I'm talkin about?
>
> thboys


Interested in selling or trading a copy of this?

Glass Slide Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thrak Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > so how many copies has sold in US ? 500.000
>
>
> The answer is not enough.
> I undrstand it when some people say some of the
> tunes sound like
> Mick's solo stuff, but I attribute that more to
> the "cd format" wherein bands feel they must have
> 60-70 minutes on a disc. It used to be closer to
> 40. If they
> had "edited" it accordingly, we could be talking
> about one of their strongest discs.
>
> And, of course my pet peeve--one of omission--why
> wasn't Under The Radar on this disc??

I totally agree with this post, who has the final say what gets cut and what stays on the disc? the stones or some idiot producer? That missing song I mentioned that my son got pre-ABB release must be 'Under The Radar' I'm guessing, I can't believe that didn't make the disc - it's absolutely a great song, sort of between the Slave groove and then it just jams the 2nd half like 'Can't You Hear Me Knockin' - Unbelievable it got cut!! I should see if my son can some how get it on this thread for everyone to sample - (or maybe that's been done already? I'm relatively new on IORR) it's awesome Stones groove jam stuff I think. What were they thinking? Unbelievable!

Pleased to meet you. . . .

Can someone describe 'Under The Radar' a bit so I can possibly identify this song - wonder if the song is out there on internet or have been posted on IORR yet? Hate to beat a dead horse but if any of you have not heard this song (title?) you simply will not believe how good it is. It's got Slave, Moonlight Mile & Can't You Hear Me Knockin flavors - great hammondb3, piano funk, harmonica jam at the end. Someone help me id it. Let mw know if we can get it on IORR if not already. . . . .

Aint I rich enough. . . .

Here's the lyrics....see if they are the same as...

Under The Radar
(Jagger/Richards)

You say you want me
And then you taunt me
Try to reform me
You drive me crazy
All engines screaming
And all your guns ablaze

You changed your number
To try to bait me
I phoned your mother... yes
She tried to date me

And now I'm sneaking
Under the radar
And now I'm creeping
Under your nose

I saw your boyfriend
He's rich and smarmy
He said he'll kill me
Yeah, but where's his army
You need protection
From this kind of ache... yeah!

But I'll come sneaking
Under the radar... yeah!
And I'll come creeping
Under your nose... Yeah!

You've been my jewel
I've been your fool
All along
What will you do
What will you do
When I'm gone?... Yeah!

Yeah!
And I'll come sneaking
Under the radar... yeah!
And I'll come creeping
Under your nose
And I'll come sneaking
Under the radar
And I'll be reeking
Just like a rose

Yeah, under the radar, Yeah! (repeat)

Come on, Yeah!





ROCKMAN

it deserved better from the band on this tour more than anything...4 tunes a night max? maybe 6-7 played from the whole album? EVERY song should have been played at least several times on the US leg...inexplicable!

Rockman,

Nope, that's definately not this song. Some lyrics from this song are: I love you baby, I love you so much, I love you baby, that I can start to blush, I love you baby, you're talkin' too fast. . .you won't be the last. . .well, well, you will be number one. . . .then it jams, over.

Maybe this is something from a previous release (accidently got on this download by mistake?) and I just never heard it before so if someone can identify it, maybe we can figure out where it came from. But it's right in the middle of a pre-ABB (so-called?) my kid got off the internet before it went on sale in the stores so it's weird. It's definately in the vein of Tatto You/SLAVE groove and then jams with no singing, it's great where ever it came from. I don't have the Tattoo You disc to check if it's from TY, but I doubt it.

Does anyone recognize those lyrics? Is it part of ABB sessions and just got cut or from something previous? Licks maybe? It's driving me nuts not knowing what it is. This song whatever it is definately not on our copy of ABB from the store. Mystery for us at least. . .can someone solve?


Mad bull's lost his way. . . .