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Re: What is it about this album?
Posted by: gotdablouse ()
Date: October 25, 2023 16:15

Quote
powerage78
Definitely a good album, full of energy and desire, which for me is the most important thing. Contagious enthusiasm, I'd say. We're in 2023, and we're talking about a new Stones album. It's pretty incredible all the same. How it will age and fit into the band's discography, we'll see. In a good place, I think.

Yes that's the big difference here with anything post ER. All the albums since have had a "cloud" over them, mostly Mick & Keith arguing about everything, except maybe for SW because they had a lot to look forward to. TY was a "best of the outtakes" that Mick said in 1989 he was worried they would be "called out" on - UC had endless sessions and fighting during mixing that drove Kimsey crazy - DW, the nadir of the Stones - SW (a truce) - VL, Mick was NOT happy with what Was and Keith did to that one and wasn't really around for the mixing - B2B, split albums, Mick walking out on the sessions at one point, saved by quality musicians dropping in, like Waddy on SoM - ABB, Keith not very involved/interested (see his behavior in the 2006 Euro PC to see what Mick had to deal with), no real energy and enthusiasm, more like a bunch of demos (Keith and Was vetoed Mick when he wanted to take it to a studio for "proper" recording).

The stars aligned for this one, enthusiastic/competent/connected producer that got them moving, Keith up for the challenge, famous guests. I don't remember when Mick first talked about the Stones needing to release a "great" album but I'd say it was prior or around 2019, well before he had any idea how to make it happen but he did. Now "great" is "relative" of course but it's certainly not the "wishful" thinking that it sounded like to me and likely to others.

--------------
IORR Links : Essential Studio Outtakes CDs : Audio - History of Rarest Outtakes : Audio



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-25 16:21 by gotdablouse.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Rip This ()
Date: October 25, 2023 17:14

for some posters it just never changes....EVEN posts that try to be complementary take swipes at the new record for stupid reasons....in the immortal words of the Stones:
When the whole wide world's against you
And you're standing in the rain
When all your friends have let you down
And treat you with disdain
And you think the party's is over
But it's only just begun
Let's raise a glass, get up and dance
'Cause life's just hit and, hit and, hit and run

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: RiffKichards ()
Date: October 25, 2023 17:42

I just listened to Hackney Diamonds.
I did not expect this…

It sounds just like the Stones should be on their album :
a different atmosphere, groovy, exciting..

A very great original album to my ears, the best they have done since the seventies.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: keefriffhards ()
Date: October 25, 2023 18:10

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Quote
keefriffhards
Its ridiculous to say I'm not a Stones fan because i can't understand the new album, i remember how thrilled i was when i first played Steel Wheels and Voodoo Lounge, it's surely okay to be confused by the direction you see 80 year old Keith take.

It's not that I'm not a Stones fan it's that this is a Jagger/ Andrew Watts solo album with Keith on it.

It's not a Stones album and i stand by that and no one can convince me otherwise. Its an abomination of a Stones album period, why only 2 tracks with Charlie, what happened to those sessions, why disregard those, he himself said what happened to the album to Ronnie in an interview, it's like they dumped that album for this solo album.

Hey Keefriff, I see your points. And they're valid points. I appreciate that you stick with your opinions, regardless of this uncalled for flack that you seem to catch.
But I say - let Mick have this one. He's kind of earned it. I don't think I have ever seen him so unapologetically excited, and gushing about a new album. He does a good job.
I do think this is what the Stones can give us at this time. And Watt pulled a lot of guitar out of Keith and esp Ronnie. After 'Crosseyed Heart' I really got the sense that Keith was done. Not 'done' as in fried; but more like a content feeling. "I said what I wanted to say, and now I'm chilling". Even Keith himself gives most credit to Jagger for HD. The only secret wish I have is that he would have pumped the brakes on SSOH, and told the room "Whoah; this sounds fukin awful".
I mean there are great things about the album: it's length. Like Doxa says, the CD age has been unkind to the album format. And while Watt's production takes some getting used to, and I still hope they do another low-key follow up album, this is what an artist should do: change. When they put out 'Satanic', I'm sure the reviews were not kind at all.
The only thing I disagree with you on, is that there should be more of Charlie. IMO the 2 tracks is right.

Hey thanks for that, yeah it's weird to be called a troll or not a Stones fan because you don't like one album, i happen to like some tracks on Dirty Work, I don't call people trolls or non Stones fans because that can't stand Dirty Work .

I think you are right give Mick his due and let the guy enjoy his moment.
Sorry that i got a bit obsessed with trying to understand why everyone loves this album, i know when I'm flogging a dead horse, if that's how people really hear hit then i should be happy for them and shut up, so that's what I'm gonna do, hey who knows, maybe Keith gets a look in next album.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Irix ()
Date: October 25, 2023 18:30



In Germany, Hackney Diamonds is #1 in the official Midweek Album Top-100 - [www.MTV.de] .

Re: What is it about this album?
Posted by: maumau ()
Date: October 25, 2023 18:34

Quote
powerage78
Definitely a good album, full of energy and desire, which for me is the most important thing. Contagious enthusiasm, I'd say. We're in 2023, and we're talking about a new Stones album. It's pretty incredible all the same. How it will age and fit into the band's discography, we'll see. In a good place, I think.

I agree, the apparent true commitment to take these songs on the road is a symptom of this enthusiasm. They've always said that even after ABB but then they never did and just add small amount of variety to the well-tested warhorses setlist.

This time it seems different and the Racket gig looks like both a prove to that and a test for them. Kind of "yeah we can make it, people will like them!". That is very important for Mick i think.

And yes it is contagious because I think I will be very pleased to hear them trying them out live, even the songs that I do not dig a lot on Hackney Diamonds

Surprising strong evidence of a lively creative band at this stage of the game

smileys with beer

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: MelBelli ()
Date: October 25, 2023 18:36

Quote
georgelicks
Final US sales predictions are in, it looks like the album will sell more in the UK this week...

Drake’s For All the Dogs (OVO/Republic) is headed back to #1 after being supplanted in its second week by Bad Bunny’s nadie sabe lo que va a pasar mañana (Rimas), which will now fall to #3. Meanwhile, Columbia’s blink-182 is set to arrive at #2 with an impressive six-digit bow, and Geffen’s Rolling Stones will see their first album of new music in almost two decades debut in the Top 5.

Now, if you’ll excuse us, we're trying to find out how much candy we can eat before we, too, are "fun-sized."

[m.hitsdailydouble.com]


Kind of amazing how little traction legacy media gets these days.

I mean, we all know this. I shouldn’t be amazed. But I don’t think young people can truly appreciate how much newspaper reviews and profiles and TV appearances used to matter.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: NilsHolgersson ()
Date: October 25, 2023 19:15

Whats the next thing we have to look forward to? Next single Mess It Up?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: October 25, 2023 20:01

I don't think it's unfair to call this a Jagger/Watt album. With the obligatory boring Richards ballad added. Only 3/5 of the iconic setting remain. So, the Rolling Stones authenticity can be questioned.
However, I think it's the best we can get and a new album beats yet another tour anytime. Haven't listened through every song thoroughly yet so still SSOH is the gold nugget for me.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: October 25, 2023 20:36

Okay, I've had over 10 listens by now, and just updating my day 1 review, with an added UPDATE after each section/track:


2 listens in so far, and pretty sure I like them all! Many seem to be expressing surprise, but based on recent output it's about what I expected... Keith's X-eyed Heart, Mick's Eazy Sleazy, and Doom & Gloom and Ghost Town ... all very good, imo.

UPDATE: It gets better w/ each listen, so far (like most albums, I suppose).

Angry - Excellent single, definitely on par with Doom and Gloom and Ghost Town.
UPDATE: Love it! It hits close to Start Me Up! How about Keith's guitar solo, subtly comes in like in Sympathy!

Get Close - Love the guitars and nice and catchy. No Bobby Keys, but still cool sax!
UPDATE: Guitars alone get better w/ each listen! And the sax is James King, now that I looked it up. Ronnie or Keith on bass? Either way, it sounds great! ... great job! I love it more.

Depending On You - Nice country vibe, nice lyrics. Biggest Mistake is better but it's close.
UPDATE: It's definitely on par w/ Biggest Mistake -- love the chorus, mainly when Mick hits the high note. The country twang, can't go wrong w/ that!

Bite My Head Off - Great! Kick-ass rocker, Great lyrics/vocals, riff is great, drums kicking, and add that fuzzy bass ...great guitar solo! Did I mention "great" ??
UPDATE: This one jumped out at me right away ... in your face (I'm thinking like Nirvana, Tourette's) but still melodic. I think some mentioned Some Girls, yes, it could fit, a la Respectable!

Whole Wide World - reminds me a bit of Infamy, which to me is a very good thing. It's just a good solid song!
UPDATE: Guitar riff is very catchy, not to mention the guitar solo! Mick's cockney accent, rare and it definitely works here!

Dreamy Skies - I assume a Keith tune, sort of like Sweethearts Together, but minus the corny lyrics... a winner for sure, beautiful guitars!
UPDATE: Beautiful, the lyrics are great, imo! Oh, and Mick's on harmonica, he's proven to be masterful with it.

Mess It Up - Decent rocker, somewhat awkward chorus, but it doesn't ruin it for me. I've read Dance, pt.3? I don't hear that at all.
UPDATE: Better w/ each listen! Did I say awkward chorus? I suppose, but it's great nonetheless! Winner, can definitely be a single.

Live By the Sword - Groovy rocker, nice keyboards on this one. I like Mick's singing, and another cool guitar solo!
UPDATE: Great - another single? I love Mick changing mid verses to stronger vocals midway ... another great guitar solo!

Driving Me Too Hard - I get an Almost Hear You Sigh vibe, decent but maybe 1 too many slower/country'ish numbers.
Update: I was wrong, maybe we need more of these! This is great, I can't get it out of my head!

Tell Me Straight - I really miss the Keith rockers, Happy, Before They Make Me, Little T&A, ect. That being said, he still kicks ass with slower tracks like This Place Is Empty, and this Tell Me Straight ditty. I'll allow it.
UPDATE: I love it more, another that sticks in my brain -- but let's make a deal ... we keep it, but on the next release, how about a rocker?

Sweet Sounds of Heaven - Not much to add on what many feel about this one, it's excellent!
UPDATE: I loved it from the start, but just figured out what I think I like most ... the lyric/phrasing ... I love how Mick does the repeat: i.e.

falling down, falling down ...
drifting down, drifting down ...
tumbling down, tumbling down ...

sweet, sweet ...
sweet, sweetest ...
sweet scent, sweet scent ...
sweet sound, sweet sound ...

And the buildup is fantastic. As for the great duet portions w/ Lady Gaga, well Mick's done just as great before ... check Superheavy, One Day One Night, w/ Joss Stone - not sure Stones fans appreciate how great that one is!

Rolling Stones Blues - love the guitar and harp, song is great, it could have been a Blue & Lonesome b-side.
Update: It is what is is, don't know what else to add -- maybe they do a Blue & Lonesome part II w/ just Mick & Keith!

I'll be happily playing this album over and over!

UPDATE: And I have been playing it over & over, and mighty happily!

Additional notes:

Lacking: There is no great instrumental intros, either guitar driven or other -- past examples, Brown Sugar, Sympathy, Slave ... are some that come to mind. Mick (and Keith) comes in too fast w/ vocals. It's not necessarily a bad thing but some of these songs, imo, would even be better w/ an extended instrumental intro: Angry, could have an extra round or two of the great starting riff; Similarly w/ Bite My Head Off and Live By The Sword; Dreamy Skies has a slightly longer one than most, but not as long as, say, No Expectations. A minor criticism for sure though.

Count Ins ... I love them, don't think the Stones did that before, not included on official releases anyway (yes, I am sure I'll be corrected of that one) - but we have 3 in the same album!

Fade Outs ... generally I hate fade outs, I always feel like perhaps we missed the best part! Stones seem to almost always use fade outs, but on HD, we have several that actually end: Angry, Get Close, Depending On You, Bite My Head Off, Whole Wide World, Dreamy Skies, Driving Me Too Hard, Tell Me Straight, Sweet Sounds ... I love it, but it's too many to just be a coincidence, I am guessing that comes from Andrew Watt.

Impromptu lyrics ... i.e. towards the end of songs where Mick goes on a rant. I long felt we don't get enough of those anymore ... like Let's Spend The Night Together and Tumbling Dice (& many others). We seem to have a few here, Angry, Mess It Up, Live By The Sword ... very nice!


Summary Update: A fantastic album, we have a nice gift from a great band! If this is how they go out, I am okay w/ it but I would love more!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-26 05:31 by LeonidP.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: john lomax ()
Date: October 25, 2023 21:29

After reading some of the negativity about the album on this thread I have continued to play the album on repeat and I have to say that I love it more and more. I have also been playing some other albums - Emotional Rescue, Undercover, Dirty Work, Steel Wheels and ABB. I found that ABB was too long and the sound/production wasn’t great; Dirty Work has some great songs but a few duds, Steel Wheels hangs together well and I really enjoyed it although I think HD has much stronger songs overall, Undercover is enjoyable but I wouldn’t say it’s a great classic album, and Emotional Rescue is patchy.

But HD for me just keeps getting better and better. I really think it will be a classic album - and if the next album is as good or better then maybe this is tje “new era” they were talking about

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: October 25, 2023 21:47

UK Midweek Update (Friday/Tuesday sales)

1 The Rolling Stones - Hackney Diamonds (64,628) [58,456 physicals, 4,017 downloads, 2,155 streaming]
2 blink-182 - ONE MORE TIME... (19,996)
3 Bombay Bicycle Club - My Big Day (11,091)
4 Olivia Rodrigo - GUTS (5,494)
5 Drake - For All the Dogs (4,656)

Crazy sales, currently only behind Ed Sheeran (76k) and Taylor Swift (65k) opening weeks this year in the UK, already over Olivia Rodrigo's first week (60k).

A success in their homeland.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: October 25, 2023 22:06

Quote
matxil
Quote
Witness
Myself I don't know at all what to think about this album. It probably will be rather long before I know. I read some posts, but abstain from others that disturb my own experience too much in my humble approach to it.

All the same, there is one idea I read about that puzzles me. It is the suggested point of view that this is rather much a pop album. Myself I have used that term with the important qualification "progressive pop" about the sequence of albums made up of AFTERMATH, BETWEEN THE BUTTONS and THEIR SATANIC MAJESTIES REQUEST and the singles from, say (with some uncertainty), "Satisfaction" up to and including "We Love You"/ "Dandelion". Apart from that, not. Now I wonder in what sense some posters consider this album a pop album.

I consider it a pop album, because the main distinctions of most of the songs are the melody and the chorus/verse(2x)/bridge structure. There are some guitar licks, sure, but they don't dominate or really define the songs. Maybe Angry up to a point is an exception, but even here the song is very much defined by the melody. There is hardly any roughness or jam-like feeling to it.
Blues songs are in general not pop, because their main attraction is not so much the melody or the chorus/verse/bridge thing. And if you think of the Stones' classics (Satisfaction, JJF, Sympathy, Midnight Rambler, Gimme Shelter, Tumbing Dice) or something like Slave (which for some odd reason has been compared with Get Close), those songs are mainly defined by a (often quite repetitive) riff, or a rhythm, a sound, a groove, almost a "trance" if you like.
The songs HD album are mainly defined by how the chorus kicks in after the verse. Also, with pop, in general the lyrics might carry less weight than with other music styles. If you listen to recent interviews with Mick about the way he likes to write songs, it sort of confirms what I am saying.
There's nothing bad about "pop", but it's not what the Stones up until "Tattoo You" were mainly about, for me. (With exceptions, of course, like indeed Aftermath (which I like), Between the Buttons (which I strongly dislike) and Their Satanic (of which I like for 50%, both the poppy Rainbow as the groovy Citadel) or a charming song like Angie.)
For me, the main distinction between the Beatles (brilliant popsong writers) and the Stones was always that the Beatles came up with fantastic melodies like "I Feel Fine" or "Hey Jude" and the Stones came up with simple-chord repetitions like "Midnight Rambler". Anyone could "write" Midnight Rambler, but only the Stones could play it right.

Now, does this mean I want the Stones to re-do their old work like Exile or Let It Bleed? No. What I really would like (but I am very well aware that this is not going to happen), is that the Stones would have moved outside of the realm of pop and songs for the masses. That they would go out on a limb (and maybe fail miserably) and try something out-worldy, and "honest". Artists like Nick Cave or Tom Waits have done that (not always with good results).
But anyway, as a pop album, the HD is certainly not bad. The melodies are often very catchy and stick in your head. I can understand people are happy to listen to it. I am rather happy to listen to it as well (apart from the awful Get Close), but it doesn't give me any "deep vibes" (whatever that means and I am aware it might sound a bit pretentious).

Thank you, matxil, for your response. I find it impressive that you give a more or less formal definition of 'pop music', even if you and Dandie disagree somewhat about how to employ the definition. Myself I only use "pop music" as, in comparison, a vague genre term. Apparently this deviates from your point of view. For by how I consider that term, I have to state that I, at least so far, fail to see HACKNEY DIAMONDS as a pop album. That is not because "pop music" is a negative term to me. Instead it depends. At times, I have had and still have strong positive enjoyment of and respect for some of what I have considered as pop music.

But since you argue with a formal concept, which I do not and even cannot do, I acknowledge that I am unqualified to give an answer to your argument. However, I have learnt something about what you meant. But I wonder how many posters and readers would use your defined concept or, alternatively, a more or less vague genre term like myself.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: josepi ()
Date: October 25, 2023 22:11

I never heard of Andrew Watt before HD, but have convinced myself that he is Brian Jones reincarnated and that's why the album is so good. Especially after looking at his picture on Wikipedia. He's posing with that gold top Les Paul just like Brian posed with his. And I'm drawing parallels between HD and Aftermath. It's a pleasant thought anyway.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-25 22:35 by josepi.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: October 25, 2023 22:28

Quote
Witness
[...]
But since you argue with a formal concept, which I do not and even cannot do, I acknowledge that I am unqualified to give an answer to your argument. However, I have learnt something about what you meant. But I wonder how many posters and readers would use your defined concept or, alternatively, a more or less vague genre term like myself.

I have become a big fan of the definition of Swayed1967 (on page 18): pop = you sing it in the shower.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Woz ()
Date: October 25, 2023 22:52

Man, Ronnie's guitar solo on Whole Wide World blows me away. The more I play the record, the more and more I love it.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Witness ()
Date: October 25, 2023 23:02

Quote
matxil
Quote
Witness
[...]
But since you argue with a formal concept, which I do not and even cannot do, I acknowledge that I am unqualified to give an answer to your argument. However, I have learnt something about what you meant. But I wonder how many posters and readers would use your defined concept or, alternatively, a more or less vague genre term like myself.

I have become a big fan of the definition of Swayed1967 (on page 18): pop = you sing it in the shower.

Difficult definition as well for me, as I don't sing in the shower. Then I would at any time be dependent on asking a Stonesfan, who does.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: donvis ()
Date: October 26, 2023 00:20

I love that only the 2 Charlie songs have fade outs! I love when the song ends on a definitive note!!!

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: shawnriffhard1 ()
Date: October 26, 2023 00:45

Quote
LeonidP
.

Count Ins ... I love them, don't think the Stones did that before, not included on official releases anyway (yes, I am sure I'll be corrected of that one) - but we have 3 in the same album!
Quote
LeonidP

Sway has "1,2,3,4"

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: October 26, 2023 01:18

Am I the only one noticing that "Driving Me Too Hard" starts like "Tumbling Dice"? Almost the same intro riff.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Stoneage ()
Date: October 26, 2023 01:18

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-26 01:34 by Stoneage.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: NashvilleBlues ()
Date: October 26, 2023 01:23

Quote
Stoneage
Am I the only one noticing that "Driving Me Too Hard" starts like "Tumbling Dice"? Almost the same intro riff.

No.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: LeonidP ()
Date: October 26, 2023 03:25

Quote
shawnriffhard1
Quote
LeonidP
.

Count Ins ... I love them, don't think the Stones did that before, not included on official releases anyway (yes, I am sure I'll be corrected of that one) - but we have 3 in the same album!
Quote
LeonidP

Sway has "1,2,3,4"

See, I was right! ... in that I would be corrected. Thanks!

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Putty ()
Date: October 26, 2023 03:35

So what’s ahead? Video for Mess it up and the making
of HD documentary?
Other singles?

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: jahisnotdead ()
Date: October 26, 2023 03:44

Quote
LeonidP
Mick's done just as great before ... check Superheavy, One Day One Night, w/ Joss Stone - not sure Stones fans appreciate how great that one is!

smileys with beer

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: October 26, 2023 05:10

Quote
jahisnotdead
Quote
LeonidP
Mick's done just as great before ... check Superheavy, One Day One Night, w/ Joss Stone - not sure Stones fans appreciate how great that one is!

smileys with beer

Great album, great song.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: ProfessorWolf ()
Date: October 26, 2023 06:41

Quote
Woz
Man, Ronnie's guitar solo on Whole Wide World blows me away. The more I play the record, the more and more I love it.

yes ronnies in very fine form throughout the album

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: JadedFaded ()
Date: October 26, 2023 07:16

I’m listening to HD every day and enjoying it more each time. With each listen, I’m noticing different things that I didn’t notice on the first few listens. There are sometimes songs that when you hear them for the first time, you love them. On HD, that song for me is Rolling Stone Blues. Other songs, you have to get to know first. This album for me is one I have to get to know, and as I do, I am liking it more and more. Some of the choruses are a bit too pop for my personal taste. Someone described them as melodic. I find them more “sing-songy” but I am still enjoying them. This is a really well done album and I am very happy with it and grateful for it. I’m loving all the media blitz too. It’s a great time to be a Stones fan.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: petewasbristol ()
Date: October 26, 2023 09:36

Quote
georgelicks
UK Midweek Update (Friday/Tuesday sales)

1 The Rolling Stones - Hackney Diamonds (64,628) [58,456 physicals, 4,017 downloads, 2,155 streaming]
2 blink-182 - ONE MORE TIME... (19,996)
3 Bombay Bicycle Club - My Big Day (11,091)
4 Olivia Rodrigo - GUTS (5,494)
5 Drake - For All the Dogs (4,656)

Crazy sales, currently only behind Ed Sheeran (76k) and Taylor Swift (65k) opening weeks this year in the UK, already over Olivia Rodrigo's first week (60k).

A success in their homeland.

The sales of HD in UK is absolutely phenomenal. That's only the mid week count as well. As you say a real success!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-10-26 09:40 by petewasbristol.

Re: Hackney Diamonds - Album Talk
Posted by: Steen G ()
Date: October 26, 2023 12:04

Nice interview with Ronnie [www.youtube.com]
(if mentioned before just remove this - I gave up searching)

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