Tell Me :
Talk
You will probably still get away with the term "women", "birth-giving beings" may be deemed more appropriate, though.
On a more serious note: freedom of speech comes with exposure to (public) criticism and a media pro like Jann Wenner should know that better than anyone else. Had he just flatout rejected the racist bias allegation and insisted that his choices reflect personal preferences - or maybe the supposed preferences of his readers -, then I would give him the favour of doubt. With his derogatory remark on black/coloured artists, however, he has set the scene for the beating he is getting right now.
Did he say it was as because they were black or women?
No he wasn’t. His songs were simplistic music fair the body not the mind.
He is one of my favorite artists but not very complicated.
Why are you not asking why Tom Watts, McCartney, and Simon were xckuded?
Not explicitly, but he said that these women and Black artists aren't as articulate as the white males he interviewed. If you don't see that as problematic, I don't know what to tell you...
From AP:
Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.
“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-29 20:58 by NashvilleBlues.
So he didn’t say it was because of their race or gender. This is just one more case of everything to happens to a women or black person being racist and sexist.
...or another case of ignoring the signs of sexism and racism. Depends on how you look at it.
Do you have a problem with what he said, or not? I see you dodged that part of my comment.
No I don’t have a problem. I don’t agree with it but I don’t have a problem.
He was asked about why nobody from a couple groups of people didn’t make it and he gave an answer. If he said it was because of their race or gender I would see the problem.
If someone grouped McCartney,Waits,Simon,Harrison, and Richards together in a group and was asked why nobody in that group made it than he would obviously answer that he didn’t find anyone in the group worthy of it. Does that make him biased against that group or just how he sees things?
The funny thing is McCartney obviously had the biggest social impact out of any musician alive not named Bob Dylan nobody is questioning him not being included but god forbid you don’t include people who happen to be women or black.
Elaborating on what he loved about Berry, The Stones frontman said, “For me, it was Chuck the lyric writer first, and the stage performer next, and then the guitar player.”
“I want to thank him for all the inspirational music he gave to us. He lit up our teenage years, and blew life into our dreams of being musicians and performers. His lyrics shone above others and threw a strange light on the American dream. Chuck, you were amazing, and your music is engraved inside us forever.”
mick jagger
When I first heard Chuck Berry, I didn’t consider that he was black. I thought he was a hillbilly. Little did I know, he was a great poet, too
Chuck, the Shakespeare of rock and roll
bob dylan
Chuck Berry was rock's greatest practitioner, guitarist, and the greatest pure rock 'n' roll writer who ever lived.
bruce springsteen
His lyrics were very intelligent lyrics, in the ’50s when people were just singing virtually about nothing, he was writing social comment songs he was writing all kinds of songs with incredible metre to the lyrics, which influenced Dylan and me, and many other people, the metre of his lyrics was tremendous. He’s the greatest rock and roll poet and I really admire him.
Chuck Berry is one of the all-time great poets, a rock poet you could call him. He was well advanced of his time lyric-wise. We all owe a lot to him, including Dylan. I’ve loved everything he’s done, ever. He was in a different class from the other performers, he was in the tradition of the great blues artists but he really wrote his own stuff – I know Richard did, but Berry really wrote stuff, just the lyrics were fantastic, even though we didn’t know what he was saying half the time.
john lennon
“I don’t think it was until I heard Chuck Berry that I realised what you could do with words
pete townsend
the masters have spoken
Rollmops,
Mops
It could or could not be racist or sexist. In todays world if something could be racist it sexist than it must be racist or sexist. This is just one more example of it.
Not true at all. I’m sure plenty feel the way you do about this.
You are pretty much an example of what racist and sexist thinking is all about in today's world. Of course, YOU don't see a problem there. How could you?
- Doxa
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
Tantekäthe
()
Date: September 29, 2023 05:14
Quote
dmay
What I don't get is Wenner dismissing women and people of color (oh my, I just used possibly a forbidden term) in being music leaders and shapers.
You will probably still get away with the term "women", "birth-giving beings" may be deemed more appropriate, though.
On a more serious note: freedom of speech comes with exposure to (public) criticism and a media pro like Jann Wenner should know that better than anyone else. Had he just flatout rejected the racist bias allegation and insisted that his choices reflect personal preferences - or maybe the supposed preferences of his readers -, then I would give him the favour of doubt. With his derogatory remark on black/coloured artists, however, he has set the scene for the beating he is getting right now.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
Paddy
()
Date: September 29, 2023 07:25
I think his statement was a dumb one to make at any point in time since Chuck Berry. There no need to bring cancel culture and woke nonsense into it. His opinion was dumb 20-30-40-50 years ago not just now.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: September 29, 2023 19:56
Quote
matxil
It's always the same with the "anti-woke" crowd. They don't have a problem with Wenner excluding women or people of color. They don't have a problem with him making nasty comments about them. You might say that Wenner himself is guilty of cancelling a considerable amount of artists. But you won't hear them about that.
But when some people protest this. When people don't like it. When people put some distance between themselves and a guy who makes nasty statements, all of a sudden they draw the "freedom of speech" card (although Wenner still has full liberty to say whatever he want), and start whining about "woke" and "cancelling" and whatnot. Boohoo, cry me river.
There was a time one could not sing "spend the night together" on t.v. This is possible now. In fact, people can say more now than ever before. But it works both ways: people can say nasty stuff and other people can say what they think about that. And some people can learn their lesson and try say less horrible stuff. Terrible, isn't it?
Did he say it was as because they were black or women?
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: September 29, 2023 20:01
Quote
rollmops
I don't know why Jann ommitted Chuck Berry. Chuck influenced all the rockers that made the cover of Rolling Stone mag. Chuck was very intelligent and articulate.
Chuck is The Man as far as Rock and roll is concerned.
Rockandroll,
Mops
No he wasn’t. His songs were simplistic music fair the body not the mind.
He is one of my favorite artists but not very complicated.
Why are you not asking why Tom Watts, McCartney, and Simon were xckuded?
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
NashvilleBlues
()
Date: September 29, 2023 20:57
Quote
stanloveQuote
matxil
It's always the same with the "anti-woke" crowd. They don't have a problem with Wenner excluding women or people of color. They don't have a problem with him making nasty comments about them. You might say that Wenner himself is guilty of cancelling a considerable amount of artists. But you won't hear them about that.
But when some people protest this. When people don't like it. When people put some distance between themselves and a guy who makes nasty statements, all of a sudden they draw the "freedom of speech" card (although Wenner still has full liberty to say whatever he want), and start whining about "woke" and "cancelling" and whatnot. Boohoo, cry me river.
There was a time one could not sing "spend the night together" on t.v. This is possible now. In fact, people can say more now than ever before. But it works both ways: people can say nasty stuff and other people can say what they think about that. And some people can learn their lesson and try say less horrible stuff. Terrible, isn't it?
Did he say it was as because they were black or women?
Not explicitly, but he said that these women and Black artists aren't as articulate as the white males he interviewed. If you don't see that as problematic, I don't know what to tell you...
From AP:
Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.
“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-29 20:58 by NashvilleBlues.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: September 29, 2023 22:20
Quote
NashvilleBluesQuote
stanloveQuote
matxil
It's always the same with the "anti-woke" crowd. They don't have a problem with Wenner excluding women or people of color. They don't have a problem with him making nasty comments about them. You might say that Wenner himself is guilty of cancelling a considerable amount of artists. But you won't hear them about that.
But when some people protest this. When people don't like it. When people put some distance between themselves and a guy who makes nasty statements, all of a sudden they draw the "freedom of speech" card (although Wenner still has full liberty to say whatever he want), and start whining about "woke" and "cancelling" and whatnot. Boohoo, cry me river.
There was a time one could not sing "spend the night together" on t.v. This is possible now. In fact, people can say more now than ever before. But it works both ways: people can say nasty stuff and other people can say what they think about that. And some people can learn their lesson and try say less horrible stuff. Terrible, isn't it?
Did he say it was as because they were black or women?
Not explicitly, but he said that these women and Black artists aren't as articulate as the white males he interviewed. If you don't see that as problematic, I don't know what to tell you...
From AP:
Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.
“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.
So he didn’t say it was because of their race or gender. This is just one more case of everything to happens to a women or black person being racist and sexist.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
NashvilleBlues
()
Date: September 29, 2023 22:30
Quote
stanloveQuote
NashvilleBluesQuote
stanloveQuote
matxil
It's always the same with the "anti-woke" crowd. They don't have a problem with Wenner excluding women or people of color. They don't have a problem with him making nasty comments about them. You might say that Wenner himself is guilty of cancelling a considerable amount of artists. But you won't hear them about that.
But when some people protest this. When people don't like it. When people put some distance between themselves and a guy who makes nasty statements, all of a sudden they draw the "freedom of speech" card (although Wenner still has full liberty to say whatever he want), and start whining about "woke" and "cancelling" and whatnot. Boohoo, cry me river.
There was a time one could not sing "spend the night together" on t.v. This is possible now. In fact, people can say more now than ever before. But it works both ways: people can say nasty stuff and other people can say what they think about that. And some people can learn their lesson and try say less horrible stuff. Terrible, isn't it?
Did he say it was as because they were black or women?
Not explicitly, but he said that these women and Black artists aren't as articulate as the white males he interviewed. If you don't see that as problematic, I don't know what to tell you...
From AP:
Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.
“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.
So he didn’t say it was because of their race or gender. This is just one more case of everything to happens to a women or black person being racist and sexist.
...or another case of ignoring the signs of sexism and racism. Depends on how you look at it.
Do you have a problem with what he said, or not? I see you dodged that part of my comment.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: September 29, 2023 22:54
Quote
NashvilleBluesQuote
stanloveQuote
NashvilleBluesQuote
stanloveQuote
matxil
It's always the same with the "anti-woke" crowd. They don't have a problem with Wenner excluding women or people of color. They don't have a problem with him making nasty comments about them. You might say that Wenner himself is guilty of cancelling a considerable amount of artists. But you won't hear them about that.
But when some people protest this. When people don't like it. When people put some distance between themselves and a guy who makes nasty statements, all of a sudden they draw the "freedom of speech" card (although Wenner still has full liberty to say whatever he want), and start whining about "woke" and "cancelling" and whatnot. Boohoo, cry me river.
There was a time one could not sing "spend the night together" on t.v. This is possible now. In fact, people can say more now than ever before. But it works both ways: people can say nasty stuff and other people can say what they think about that. And some people can learn their lesson and try say less horrible stuff. Terrible, isn't it?
Did he say it was as because they were black or women?
Not explicitly, but he said that these women and Black artists aren't as articulate as the white males he interviewed. If you don't see that as problematic, I don't know what to tell you...
From AP:
Asked why he didn’t interview women or Black musicians, Wenner responded: “It’s not that they’re inarticulate, although, go have a deep conversation with Grace Slick or Janis Joplin. Please, be my guest. You know, Joni (Mitchell) was not a philosopher of rock ’n’ roll. She didn’t, in my mind, meet that test,” he told the Times.
“Of Black artists — you know, Stevie Wonder, genius, right? I suppose when you use a word as broad as ‘masters,’ the fault is using that word. Maybe Marvin Gaye, or Curtis Mayfield? I mean, they just didn’t articulate at that level,” Wenner said.
So he didn’t say it was because of their race or gender. This is just one more case of everything to happens to a women or black person being racist and sexist.
...or another case of ignoring the signs of sexism and racism. Depends on how you look at it.
Do you have a problem with what he said, or not? I see you dodged that part of my comment.
No I don’t have a problem. I don’t agree with it but I don’t have a problem.
He was asked about why nobody from a couple groups of people didn’t make it and he gave an answer. If he said it was because of their race or gender I would see the problem.
If someone grouped McCartney,Waits,Simon,Harrison, and Richards together in a group and was asked why nobody in that group made it than he would obviously answer that he didn’t find anyone in the group worthy of it. Does that make him biased against that group or just how he sees things?
The funny thing is McCartney obviously had the biggest social impact out of any musician alive not named Bob Dylan nobody is questioning him not being included but god forbid you don’t include people who happen to be women or black.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
NashvilleBlues
()
Date: September 29, 2023 23:14
I get racist/sexist vibes from what he said, if you don't, that's fair.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
ProfessorWolf
()
Date: September 30, 2023 01:13
Quote
stanloveQuote
rollmops
I don't know why Jann ommitted Chuck Berry. Chuck influenced all the rockers that made the cover of Rolling Stone mag. Chuck was very intelligent and articulate.
Chuck is The Man as far as Rock and roll is concerned.
Rockandroll,
Mops
No he wasn’t. His songs were simplistic music fair the body not the mind.
He is one of my favorite artists but not very complicated.
Why are you not asking why Tom Watts, McCartney, and Simon were xckuded?
Elaborating on what he loved about Berry, The Stones frontman said, “For me, it was Chuck the lyric writer first, and the stage performer next, and then the guitar player.”
“I want to thank him for all the inspirational music he gave to us. He lit up our teenage years, and blew life into our dreams of being musicians and performers. His lyrics shone above others and threw a strange light on the American dream. Chuck, you were amazing, and your music is engraved inside us forever.”
mick jagger
When I first heard Chuck Berry, I didn’t consider that he was black. I thought he was a hillbilly. Little did I know, he was a great poet, too
Chuck, the Shakespeare of rock and roll
bob dylan
Chuck Berry was rock's greatest practitioner, guitarist, and the greatest pure rock 'n' roll writer who ever lived.
bruce springsteen
His lyrics were very intelligent lyrics, in the ’50s when people were just singing virtually about nothing, he was writing social comment songs he was writing all kinds of songs with incredible metre to the lyrics, which influenced Dylan and me, and many other people, the metre of his lyrics was tremendous. He’s the greatest rock and roll poet and I really admire him.
Chuck Berry is one of the all-time great poets, a rock poet you could call him. He was well advanced of his time lyric-wise. We all owe a lot to him, including Dylan. I’ve loved everything he’s done, ever. He was in a different class from the other performers, he was in the tradition of the great blues artists but he really wrote his own stuff – I know Richard did, but Berry really wrote stuff, just the lyrics were fantastic, even though we didn’t know what he was saying half the time.
john lennon
“I don’t think it was until I heard Chuck Berry that I realised what you could do with words
pete townsend
the masters have spoken
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
rollmops
()
Date: September 30, 2023 12:53
I don't agree with you. Chuck Berry is a major contributor the rockandroll music in every category. Some of his songs have a simple musical structure but simplicity is not a flaw. Tom Waits, Mc Cartney , Paul Simon are great but musically they owe to Chuck Berry. John Lennon said it best that if rock and roll had to be renamed it would be Chuck Berry.Quote
stanloveQuote
rollmops
I don't know why Jann ommitted Chuck Berry. Chuck influenced all the rockers that made the cover of Rolling Stone mag. Chuck was very intelligent and articulate.
Chuck is The Man as far as Rock and roll is concerned.
Rockandroll,
Mops
No he wasn’t. His songs were simplistic music fair the body not the mind.
He is one of my favorite artists but not very complicated.
Why are you not asking why Tom Watts, McCartney, and Simon were xckuded?
Rollmops,
Mops
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
stanlove
()
Date: September 30, 2023 17:17
Quote
NashvilleBlues
I get racist/sexist vibes from what he said, if you don't, that's fair.
It could or could not be racist or sexist. In todays world if something could be racist it sexist than it must be racist or sexist. This is just one more example of it.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
NashvilleBlues
()
Date: September 30, 2023 17:37
Quote
stanloveQuote
NashvilleBlues
I get racist/sexist vibes from what he said, if you don't, that's fair.
It could or could not be racist or sexist. In todays world if something could be racist it sexist then it must be racist or sexist. This is just one more example of it.
Not true at all. I’m sure plenty feel the way you do about this.
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: September 30, 2023 18:29
Quote
stanloveQuote
NashvilleBlues
I get racist/sexist vibes from what he said, if you don't, that's fair.
It could or could not be racist or sexist. In todays world if something could be racist it sexist than it must be racist or sexist. This is just one more example of it.
You are pretty much an example of what racist and sexist thinking is all about in today's world. Of course, YOU don't see a problem there. How could you?
- Doxa
Re: OT: Jann Wenner removed from RnR hall of fame BOD
Posted by:
JivinSisterFanny
()
Date: October 2, 2023 18:51
Publicly questioning an entire demographic group’s ability to “articulate” or suggesting the inferiority of their “intellectual level” indicates a complete lack of awareness; it shouldn’t have been acceptable ever, but it definitely isn’t now (the anti-woke crowd calls it PC, but we know what it is).
At any rate, I think we know why Los Lobos got shut out a few years back
At any rate, I think we know why Los Lobos got shut out a few years back
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