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DandelionPowderman


My copy has this running list:

Yep, this was my first copy as well. My dad had "Ft Worth Express" back in the 90's, which was great.

It appears "Keep Your Motor Running" is actually all from Texas, and I believe the unreleased album included songs from Philly. I can't figure out why one song is mono though.

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DandelionPowderman

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bakersfield

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CaptainCorella

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exilestones
I remember reading/hearing Preston would kind of take over a song the Stones were working on and kind of turn it into a Billy Preston song, like Melody, I guess.

Whoever told you that has got it 100% the wrong way round.

Melody started off the other way round. From Bill and picked up and owned by The Glimmer Twins.

It was Keith. I've also seen that quote where he says that 'brilliant players like Billy Preston' would put their stamp on a song and 'you end up with a compromised track'.Can't be sure he meant Melody. However, I find Mick and Keith's reluctance to give song writing credit where it is due one of their less appealing characteristics. If they have, as is rumoured, given Andrew Watt a song writing credit on the new album I suppose that reflects the fact that albums sell in smaller quantities these days and so they aren't losing so much my sharing the royalties.

I'm pretty sure he meant in general, and that he wanted to get the band's sound back together.

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

Under that logic, Mick Taylor and Brian Jones should have gotten credit for some songs

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Taylor1

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DandelionPowderman

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bakersfield

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CaptainCorella

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exilestones
I remember reading/hearing Preston would kind of take over a song the Stones were working on and kind of turn it into a Billy Preston song, like Melody, I guess.

Whoever told you that has got it 100% the wrong way round.

Melody started off the other way round. From Bill and picked up and owned by The Glimmer Twins.

It was Keith. I've also seen that quote where he says that 'brilliant players like Billy Preston' would put their stamp on a song and 'you end up with a compromised track'.Can't be sure he meant Melody. However, I find Mick and Keith's reluctance to give song writing credit where it is due one of their less appealing characteristics. If they have, as is rumoured, given Andrew Watt a song writing credit on the new album I suppose that reflects the fact that albums sell in smaller quantities these days and so they aren't losing so much my sharing the royalties.

I'm pretty sure he meant in general, and that he wanted to get the band's sound back together.

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

Under that logic, Mick Taylor and Brian Jones should have gotten credit for some songs

If they were producers, yes

The new thing is that producers take more of the artist's cake, for things that used to be a producer's job.

I've written a lot about this in my day job. This is especially bad for young female artists without a network. Male (the producers are often male) producers insist on tampering with their songs to earn an extra buck.

Now that this has become almost a standard in the industry, we often see the producers' name on the song writing credits with bigger artists, too.

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman


My copy has this running list:

It appears "Keep Your Motor Running" is actually all from Texas, and I believe the unreleased album included songs from Philly. I can't figure out why one song is mono though.

actually all but "Happy" and "YCAGWYW are from Philly on "Keep Your Motor Running"

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Dorn

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman


My copy has this running list:

It appears "Keep Your Motor Running" is actually all from Texas, and I believe the unreleased album included songs from Philly. I can't figure out why one song is mono though.

actually all but "Happy" and "YCAGWYW are from Philly on "Keep Your Motor Running"

You're correct. I was looking at a recent compilation that reused that name:

[www.discogs.com]

Unreleased soundtrack of 1972 US Tour
Live in Texas
June 24 and 25, 1972
Soundboard


1. Brown Sugar [Houston 25.6.72, 2nd show]
2. Bitch [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 2nd]
3. Gimme Shelter [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 1st show]
4. Dead Flowers [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 1st]
5. Happy [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 1st]
6. Tumbling Dice [Houston 25.6.72, 1st]
7. Love In Vain (Robert Johnson) [Houston 25.6.72, 1st]
8. Sweet Virginia [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 1st]
9. You Can’t Always Get What You Want [Houston 25.6.72, 1st]
10. All Down The Line [Houston 25.6.72, 2nd]
11. Midnight Rambler [Houston 25.6.72, 2nd]
12. Band introduction [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 2nd]
13. Bye Bye Johnny (Chuck Berry) [Houston 25.6.72, 1st]
14. Rip This Joint [Fort Worth 24.6.72, 2nd]
15. Jumping Jack Flash [Houston 25.6.72, 1st]
16. Street Fighting Man [Houston 25.6.72, 2nd]
17. Don’t Lie To Me (was played as the credits rolled)*

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bakersfield

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CaptainCorella

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exilestones
I remember reading/hearing Preston would kind of take over a song the Stones were working on and kind of turn it into a Billy Preston song, like Melody, I guess.

Whoever told you that has got it 100% the wrong way round.

Melody started off the other way round. From Bill and picked up and owned by The Glimmer Twins.

It was Keith. I've also seen that quote where he says that 'brilliant players like Billy Preston' would put their stamp on a song and 'you end up with a compromised track'.Can't be sure he meant Melody. However, I find Mick and Keith's reluctance to give song writing credit where it is due one of their less appealing characteristics. If they have, as is rumoured, given Andrew Watt a song writing credit on the new album I suppose that reflects the fact that albums sell in smaller quantities these days and so they aren't losing so much my sharing the royalties.

Mick and Keith... they could certainly afford to give credit since they've covered whoever and credited. Their ripoff of Billy's Do You Love Me is extremely obvious. Inspired by their asses.

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TravelinMan

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DandelionPowderman


My copy has this running list:

Yep, this was my first copy as well. My dad had "Ft Worth Express" back in the 90's, which was great.

It appears "Keep Your Motor Running" is actually all from Texas, and I believe the unreleased album included songs from Philly. I can't figure out why one song is mono though.

Yeah this is the one I had as well.

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DandelionPowderman

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

What's also happening more and more is that as producers have gotten more famous, and studios more expensive, a producer can demand a share of the royalties of a track, even if he didn't write anything. In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs. A famous radio DJ would only play music of bands he was the 'executive producer' for, in the end he 'produced' literally hundreds of bands while not being in the studio once.

Mathijs

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retired_dog


The problem, at least as I recall it, was the so-called "re-recording clause" in their original contract and/or settlement with ABKCO that prevented them from releasing any re-recordings, regardless whether studio or live, of material that was controlled by ABKCO for a period of 5 years after termination of their former contract. Thus, a live "re-recording" of, let's say "JJF" from 1972 or 1973 could not be released in the period between 1971-1975. At least not without the permission of ABKCO, that is. And, of course: permission = money...

That's exactly how I remembered it -they could release Klein owned stuff only after permission from Klein. And as all the money would go to Klein, Jagger was not interested in a release anymore. Giving the 1973 recording to KBFH was in my opinion also a stab at Klein.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs.

well, i could handle such tough job as well for some royalties

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

What's also happening more and more is that as producers have gotten more famous, and studios more expensive, a producer can demand a share of the royalties of a track, even if he didn't write anything. In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs. A famous radio DJ would only play music of bands he was the 'executive producer' for, in the end he 'produced' literally hundreds of bands while not being in the studio once.

Mathijs

Indeed, that's the extreme variant.

Would George Martin today have gotten writer’s credit for a lot of Beatle’s songs?

Here is the version we released

[onlyrockandroll.london]

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Taylor1
Would George Martin today have gotten writer’s credit for a lot of Beatle’s songs?

No. He built upon the foundation laid by the main writers.

Mathijs

Whats the story behind the 1972 compilation being played on radio Cleveland?

As a native Ohioan, I find this really interesting. Brussels is always talked about, but I am just finding out about this.

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

What's also happening more and more is that as producers have gotten more famous, and studios more expensive, a producer can demand a share of the royalties of a track, even if he didn't write anything. In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs. A famous radio DJ would only play music of bands he was the 'executive producer' for, in the end he 'produced' literally hundreds of bands while not being in the studio once.

Mathijs

Very true. I work in a studio, and and we used to do a lot of Hip Hop sessions. You can have a guy suggest one single word, and they'd be up for a co-write. especially if it is in the hook.

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

What's also happening more and more is that as producers have gotten more famous, and studios more expensive, a producer can demand a share of the royalties of a track, even if he didn't write anything. In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs. A famous radio DJ would only play music of bands he was the 'executive producer' for, in the end he 'produced' literally hundreds of bands while not being in the studio once.

Mathijs

Very true. I work in a studio, and and we used to do a lot of Hip Hop sessions. You can have a guy suggest one single word, and they'd be up for a co-write. especially if it is in the hook.

So under that standard Ringo would get credit for A Hard Day’s Night

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Palace Revolution 2000

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

What's also happening more and more is that as producers have gotten more famous, and studios more expensive, a producer can demand a share of the royalties of a track, even if he didn't write anything. In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs. A famous radio DJ would only play music of bands he was the 'executive producer' for, in the end he 'produced' literally hundreds of bands while not being in the studio once.

Mathijs

Very true. I work in a studio, and and we used to do a lot of Hip Hop sessions. You can have a guy suggest one single word, and they'd be up for a co-write. especially if it is in the hook.

While we are the topic of music producers, and forgive my ignorance here as I don't work in the biz, but what exactly does a music producer do? The most famous producer I certainly learned about growing up was George Martin due to his association and contributions with the Beatles. So is Martin like the template type of producer that you would see with other artists? Please feel free to clarify and expand my knowledge on this topic. Thanks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-30 15:57 by Sighunt.

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Sighunt
While we are the topic of music producers, and forgive my ignorance here as I don't work in the biz, but what exactly does a music producer do? The most famous producer I certainly learned about growing up was George Martin due to his association and contributions with the Beatles. so is Martin like the template that you would see with other artists? Please feel free to clarify and expand my knowledge on this topic. Thanks.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Sighunt
While we are the topic of music producers, and forgive my ignorance here as I don't work in the biz, but what exactly does a music producer do? The most famous producer I certainly learned about growing up was George Martin due to his association and contributions with the Beatles. so is Martin like the template that you would see with other artists? Please feel free to clarify and expand my knowledge on this topic. Thanks.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Mathijs

Thanks for posting that Wiki article. It pretty much confirms what my confusion has been all these years: that a producer (per a separate google search) really can be many things involving "a range of creative and technical leadership roles!" LOL



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-30 16:18 by Sighunt.

In the TDK-SA90 days I had a copy

edit: Well i still got it

Life's just a cocktail party on the street



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-30 17:23 by MononoM.

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Sighunt

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Mathijs

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Sighunt
While we are the topic of music producers, and forgive my ignorance here as I don't work in the biz, but what exactly does a music producer do? The most famous producer I certainly learned about growing up was George Martin due to his association and contributions with the Beatles. so is Martin like the template that you would see with other artists? Please feel free to clarify and expand my knowledge on this topic. Thanks.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Mathijs

Thanks for posting that Wiki article. It pretty much confirms what my confusion has been all these years: that a producer (per a separate google search) really can be many things involving "a range of creative and technical leadership roles!" LOL

The most important thing for a producer is to get 'the best take', meaning a take where all players shine, at the best possible sound quality. A producer directs the band, and works closely with the engineers.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

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Sighunt

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Mathijs

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Sighunt
While we are the topic of music producers, and forgive my ignorance here as I don't work in the biz, but what exactly does a music producer do? The most famous producer I certainly learned about growing up was George Martin due to his association and contributions with the Beatles. so is Martin like the template that you would see with other artists? Please feel free to clarify and expand my knowledge on this topic. Thanks.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Mathijs

Thanks for posting that Wiki article. It pretty much confirms what my confusion has been all these years: that a producer (per a separate google search) really can be many things involving "a range of creative and technical leadership roles!" LOL

The most important thing for a producer is to get 'the best take', meaning a take where all players shine, at the best possible sound quality. A producer directs the band, and works closely with the engineers.

Mathijs

Thanks for clarifying!

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TravelinMan
Whats the story behind the 1972 compilation being played on radio Cleveland?

As a native Ohioan, I find this really interesting. Brussels is always talked about, but I am just finding out about this.

What WMMS probably played was a bootleg, they had done it before. They played Led Zeppelin Destroyer, a well known bootleg from the 1977 tour stop at Richfield Coliseum.

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!

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rattler2004
What WMMS probably played was a bootleg, they had done it before. They played Led Zeppelin Destroyer, a well known bootleg from the 1977 tour stop at Richfield Coliseum.

Nico's entry below. It's highly unlikely there was a bootleg on the market a couple weeks after the tour finished. The source was inside the organization and likely a reaction to Klein killing the project or making it financially infeasible.

720811A 11th August: THE ROLLING STONES. US radio (WMMS)/(Radio Cleveland).
Broadcast of the unreleased 1972 tour live-album.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want (MJ/KR) - Houston 25.06.72, 1st show
- Sweet Virginia (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 21.07.72, 1st show
- Bitch (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- All Down The Line (MJ/KR) -Houston 25.06.72, 1st show
- Happy (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.06.72, 1st show
- Tumbling Dice (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Rip This Joint (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.06.72, 1st show
- Gimme Shelter (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Brown Sugar (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Uptight/Satisfaction (Sylvia Moy/Henry Cosby/Stevie Wonder)(MJ/KR)
-unidentified source, July 1972

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Rocky Dijon

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rattler2004
What WMMS probably played was a bootleg, they had done it before. They played Led Zeppelin Destroyer, a well known bootleg from the 1977 tour stop at Richfield Coliseum.

Nico's entry below. It's highly unlikely there was a bootleg on the market a couple weeks after the tour finished. The source was inside the organization and likely a reaction to Klein killing the project or making it financially infeasible.

720811A 11th August: THE ROLLING STONES. US radio (WMMS)/(Radio Cleveland).
Broadcast of the unreleased 1972 tour live-album.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want (MJ/KR) - Houston 25.06.72, 1st show
- Sweet Virginia (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 21.07.72, 1st show
- Bitch (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- All Down The Line (MJ/KR) -Houston 25.06.72, 1st show
- Happy (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.06.72, 1st show
- Tumbling Dice (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Rip This Joint (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.06.72, 1st show
- Gimme Shelter (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Brown Sugar (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Uptight/Satisfaction (Sylvia Moy/Henry Cosby/Stevie Wonder)(MJ/KR)
-unidentified source, July 1972

What’s weird is they would do overdub sessions in October after that though. I can’t imagine they were sticking it to Klein then going back in to work on it. I could believe a bootleg of a particular show being aired right away but a compilation?

They started the broadcast with two slow numbers?

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Mathijs

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DandelionPowderman

Regarding Andrew Watt, in the music business today (at least for the last 15 years) it's normal that the producer gets song writing credits if he/she (for instance) suggests or shows a bridge that he thinks suits the song. It could be less, too. Look at today's credits: many names behind most of the songs.

In the old days, this was merely the producer's job, developing the songs and putting them into shape if they lacked something.

I suspect something like this happened here.

What's also happening more and more is that as producers have gotten more famous, and studios more expensive, a producer can demand a share of the royalties of a track, even if he didn't write anything. In The Netherlands there is a famous band manager who has played 'banana shaker' on more than a thousand songs. A famous radio DJ would only play music of bands he was the 'executive producer' for, in the end he 'produced' literally hundreds of bands while not being in the studio once.

Mathijs

Executive producers, at least in music, are often financial contributors to a/the project. It's a term mostly used in TV, cable or streaming series, and movies.

Then there's the whole points thing. Not sure if that's still a thing anymore - haven't heard or read about anyone talking about it in quite a while.

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DandelionPowderman
They started the broadcast with two slow numbers?

Well, the original Keep Your Motor Running vinyl bootleg from the early 80's (1983?) has the following running order:

A1 All Down The Line
A2 Bitch
A3 Sweet Virginia
A4 Tumbling Dice
B1 Bye Bye Johnny
B2 Rip This Joint
B3 Gimme Shelter
B4 You Can't Always Get What You Want

Makes a bit more sense keeping in mind that it was going to be a single album (by omitting Brown Sugar, Happy, Uptight/Satisfaction).

As this vinyl bootleg contains overdubbed tracks, it was obviously not dubbed from the WMMS broadcast as there's no way that WMMS could have overdubbed tracks within a couple of weeks after the tour in August, when any overdub sessions supposedly did not happen before October.

It's more likely that the WMMS broadcast was a mere compilation of tracks that were chosen for further work, hence the random running order that has nothing to do with a finalised LP tracklist.

Therefore, Nico's entry should better read:

"Broadcast of a compilation of tracks chosen for the unreleased 1972 tour live-album" instead of misleading into thinking that the broadcast was in fact the finalised album.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-31 02:50 by retired_dog.

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TravelinMan

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Rocky Dijon

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rattler2004
What WMMS probably played was a bootleg, they had done it before. They played Led Zeppelin Destroyer, a well known bootleg from the 1977 tour stop at Richfield Coliseum.

Nico's entry below. It's highly unlikely there was a bootleg on the market a couple weeks after the tour finished. The source was inside the organization and likely a reaction to Klein killing the project or making it financially infeasible.

720811A 11th August: THE ROLLING STONES. US radio (WMMS)/(Radio Cleveland).
Broadcast of the unreleased 1972 tour live-album.
- You Can't Always Get What You Want (MJ/KR) - Houston 25.06.72, 1st show
- Sweet Virginia (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 21.07.72, 1st show
- Bitch (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- All Down The Line (MJ/KR) -Houston 25.06.72, 1st show
- Happy (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.06.72, 1st show
- Tumbling Dice (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Rip This Joint (MJ/KR) -Fort Worth 24.06.72, 1st show
- Gimme Shelter (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Brown Sugar (MJ/KR) -Philadelphia 20.07.72
- Uptight/Satisfaction (Sylvia Moy/Henry Cosby/Stevie Wonder)(MJ/KR)
-unidentified source, July 1972

What’s weird is they would do overdub sessions in October after that though. I can’t imagine they were sticking it to Klein then going back in to work on it. I could believe a bootleg of a particular show being aired right away but a compilation?

Maybe one of them heard the broadcast and thought, "Oh sod that, man, we've gotta fix that" so they had Bill put new bass on Tumbling Dice.

Maybe it was to coincide with the movie?

They recorded SOUP in JA shortly after though, finished that, then went on tour, recorded Hide Your Love, went to work on overdubs and mixing SOUP, then did the ridiculous 'clean' mix of Star Star, then did silly videos with different takes, then rehearsed for their 1973 tour, Angie is out, then SOUP is out 11 days later, then the 1973 tour starts the day after the LP was released.

About two weeks after the tour is finished they start work on recording IORR.

The year ends with Mick recording It's Only Rock'N'Roll with Woody and Doo Doo Doo Doo Doo is released a week later and then Mick records with John Lennon on Too Many Cooks before the very last day of 1973.

That was all from October through December!

They took January of 1974 off!