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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

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slew
The Steel Wheels tour was huge. They have never really lost relevance except after 1989 I don't think their new music resonates.

Their record sales of VOODOO, STRIPPED and BRIDGES say otherwise - they all sold very well considering the decade.

Relevance is bizarrely a cultural thing that doesn't really carry any weight.

Is Drake or Taylor Swift relevant? Not to me. That's as far as it really goes.

Music has always come and gone away with bands releasing albums, singles and touring. Replace 'music' with 'relevance' and it's the same thing - it's always a "moment".

A hits album isn't relevant in comparison to a new album and tour - yet look at HOT ROCKS.

As pointed out somewhere, relevance doesn't mean anything when you see how many people go see the Stones (and whoever else).

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Koen

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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Looks like she wrote the tune "Vigilante Shit" by herself on the recent album, along with "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" on the 3 AM and Late Night Editions of the album.
And yes, most of her tunes from previous albums were written by her alone. Not a fan of her music, but gotta give credit where credits due.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Koen

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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Agreed. And EVEN if Hound Dog were correct, does that mean Elvis is irrelevant? How ironic coming from "Hound Dog"!

Even if the Stones' recent albums did not sell millions of copies, they've already established themselves as icons with nothing left to prove. They will ALWAYS be relevant, their place in History is firmly imprinted. Everything that they've done since the 1990's is just gravy, the cherry on top of their wondrous " cake".

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His Majesty
My point of view is that they are completely integrated in to mainstream culture. Their past and present influencing it, influenced by it, completely entangled in the fabric of it all. They are everywhere, in art, music, photography, film, social media etc etc.

Mainstream is the important distinction. In the past they were more part of youth culture and/or counter-culture as it was. That slowly became mainstream culture. I think this shift is what people are seeing as a move in to irrelevance, when, perhaps, it's more a case of The Rolling Stones way of doing things became more and more accepted, integrated, assimilated in to mainstream culture.

I'd say they are on the outside of current youth and counter-culture, but still influencing it somewhat simply because they are everywhere. I think most of us are just too old to have any real grasp on what youth and counter culture is now though.

In short, along with many others, The Rolling Stones are mainstream culture.

That's really well put.

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His Majesty
My point of view is that they are completely integrated in to mainstream culture. Their past and present influencing it, influenced by it, completely entangled in the fabric of it all. They are everywhere, in art, music, photography, film, social media etc etc.

Mainstream is the important distinction. In the past they were more part of youth culture and/or counter-culture as it was. That slowly became mainstream culture. I think this shift is what people are seeing as a move in to irrelevance, when, perhaps, it's more a case of The Rolling Stones way of doing things became more and more accepted, integrated, assimilated in to mainstream culture.

I'd say they are on the outside of current youth and counter-culture, but still influencing it somewhat simply because they are everywhere. I think most of us are just too old to have any real grasp on what youth and counter culture is now though.

In short, along with many others, The Rolling Stones are mainstream culture.

Very convincing His Majesty, this rings true.

Even if the Stones' recent albums did not sell millions of copies, they've already established themselves as icons with nothing left to prove. They will ALWAYS be relevant, their place in History is firmly imprinted. Everything that they've done since the 1990's is just gravy, the cherry on top of their wondrous " cake".

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mickschix
Even if the Stones' recent albums did not sell millions of copies, they've already established themselves as icons with nothing left to prove. They will ALWAYS be relevant, their place in History is firmly imprinted. Everything that they've done since the 1990's is just gravy, the cherry on top of their wondrous " cake".

I've never come across anything that the Stones themselves said they had something or anything, for that matter, to prove.

They just wanted to play music. They still do. So that hasn't changed.

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GasLightStreet

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mickschix
Even if the Stones' recent albums did not sell millions of copies, they've already established themselves as icons with nothing left to prove. They will ALWAYS be relevant, their place in History is firmly imprinted. Everything that they've done since the 1990's is just gravy, the cherry on top of their wondrous " cake".

I've never come across anything that the Stones themselves said they had something or anything, for that matter, to prove.

They just wanted to play music. They still do. So that hasn't changed.

While I agree with that generally, I think that it stands to reason that putting out a new album, or the length of time that it has taken to put out a new album could be interpreted as wanting to prove they've still got the chops to put out some excellent new material. It may not be the only motivation but it does feel like that is at least part of the motivation. Silence the naysayers.

Not many artist get local news coverage when they come to town, but then stones still do. Still a big deal.

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Hairball

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Koen

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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Looks like she wrote the tune "Vigilante Shit" by herself on the recent album, along with "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" on the 3 AM and Late Night Editions of the album.
And yes, most of her tunes from previous albums were written by her alone. Not a fan of her music, but gotta give credit where credits due.

I mean...we are not talking about Joni Mitchell here. I do understand she writes her own songs, I just do not think that means much (does anyone think she is a great song writer?).

Best believe I'm still bejeweled
When I walk in the room
I can still make the whole place shimmer
And when I meet the band
They ask, "Do you have a man?"
I could still say, "I don't remember"

Revolutionary?

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sdstonesguy

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Hairball

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Koen

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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Looks like she wrote the tune "Vigilante Shit" by herself on the recent album, along with "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" on the 3 AM and Late Night Editions of the album.
And yes, most of her tunes from previous albums were written by her alone. Not a fan of her music, but gotta give credit where credits due.

I mean...we are not talking about Joni Mitchell here. I do understand she writes her own songs, I just do not think that means much (does anyone think she is a great song writer?).

Best believe I'm still bejeweled
When I walk in the room
I can still make the whole place shimmer
And when I meet the band
They ask, "Do you have a man?"
I could still say, "I don't remember"

Revolutionary?

Based on the number of Grammys she's won, along with all of her chart success, not to mention her massive tours in stadiums, and her rabid fan base, I'd have to guess someone thinks she's a great songwriter. Revolutionary? Might try asking that on a Taylor Swift forum. From what little I know of her music, I'd probably say she's no Dylan, Beatles, or Stones, but again I'm not a fan of her music so cant really give an accurate opinion one way or the other.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

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Stoneage
When did the music of The Rolling Stones lose its relevance to mainstream culture?

I mean when did the new music of the Rolling Stones start to lose its grip on the mainstream audience?

Ehm. 12.000.000 views for a new song (just) on YT - I think that is relevance.
[www.youtube.com]

The subject is The Rolling Stones but since Taylor Swift was mentioned; I don't think it matters whether she writes her own music, her relevance to mainstream culture has been bigger than the Rolling Stones' one the last decade. Simply because she has released more songs and has been played more on major radio stations. And if you think relevance is a clumsy word replace it with influence then. The music of The Rolling Stones has not been that influential the last four or most certainly two decades because a) album releases have been meagre b) their rotation on major radio stations has been equally meagre. Relevance, or influence, doesn't necessarily has to mean quality. The legacy of The Rolling Stones will of course always be greater than almost any other artist though.

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Hairball

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sdstonesguy

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Hairball

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Koen

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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Looks like she wrote the tune "Vigilante Shit" by herself on the recent album, along with "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" on the 3 AM and Late Night Editions of the album.
And yes, most of her tunes from previous albums were written by her alone. Not a fan of her music, but gotta give credit where credits due.

I mean...we are not talking about Joni Mitchell here. I do understand she writes her own songs, I just do not think that means much (does anyone think she is a great song writer?).

Best believe I'm still bejeweled
When I walk in the room
I can still make the whole place shimmer
And when I meet the band
They ask, "Do you have a man?"
I could still say, "I don't remember"

Revolutionary?

Based on the number of Grammys she's won, along with all of her chart success, not to mention her massive tours in stadiums, and her rabid fan base, I'd have to guess someone thinks she's a great songwriter. Revolutionary? Might try asking that on a Taylor Swift forum. From what little I know of her music, I'd probably say she's no Dylan, Beatles, or Stones, but again I'm not a fan of her music so cant really give an accurate opinion one way or the other.

"Someone thinks she's a great songwriter." Wow...high bar you got there. You seem to think that she is popular thus she is a great songwriter. Others require more than popularity to annoint greatness. Is your list of great writers in order of popularity? Album Sales? Commercials their songs were in? Products sold? Money made? Who is the richest, they must be the best!

Why do you hate Joni Mitchell?

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sdstonesguy

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Hairball

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sdstonesguy

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Hairball

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Koen

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Hound Dog
If you look at someone like Taylor Swift, she doesn't play one instrument on her albums. And she doesn't write songs by herself... Many will not believe this but its true see here..

[en.wikipedia.org]

That’s just on this album. She writes most of her own music.

Not sure what you are trying to prove here.

Looks like she wrote the tune "Vigilante Shit" by herself on the recent album, along with "Bigger Than the Whole Sky" on the 3 AM and Late Night Editions of the album.
And yes, most of her tunes from previous albums were written by her alone. Not a fan of her music, but gotta give credit where credits due.

I mean...we are not talking about Joni Mitchell here. I do understand she writes her own songs, I just do not think that means much (does anyone think she is a great song writer?).

Best believe I'm still bejeweled
When I walk in the room
I can still make the whole place shimmer
And when I meet the band
They ask, "Do you have a man?"
I could still say, "I don't remember"

Revolutionary?

Based on the number of Grammys she's won, along with all of her chart success, not to mention her massive tours in stadiums, and her rabid fan base, I'd have to guess someone thinks she's a great songwriter. Revolutionary? Might try asking that on a Taylor Swift forum. From what little I know of her music, I'd probably say she's no Dylan, Beatles, or Stones, but again I'm not a fan of her music so cant really give an accurate opinion one way or the other.

"Someone thinks she's a great songwriter." Wow...high bar you got there. You seem to think that she is popular thus she is a great songwriter. Others require more than popularity to annoint greatness. Is your list of great writers in order of popularity? Album Sales? Commercials their songs were in? Products sold? Money made? Who is the richest, they must be the best!

Why do you hate Joni Mitchell?

Not sure what you have against Taylor Swift, but if you need evidence of her talent and wordwide phenomenon, maybe you could do a quick google search (as I just did) where you would find the article below.
And since you took the time to quote some of her lyrics, and seemingly based your hatred and anger entirely on a few lines from one of her songs, why not dig a little deeper?

Here's an excerpt about her songwriting from a lengthy article from The Harvard Gazette - the official news website for Harvard University that gives plenty of facts and opinions
Highly respected professors of music, psychology, and business from Harvard University and Berklee College of Music give their insights, and I would think their knowledge is worthy.

So what exactly makes Taylor Swift so great?

"Very few people have her songwriting talent".

Experts weigh in on her fanbase loyalty, skills as songwriter, businesswoman as her albums, tours break financial, popularity records

Taylor Swift

'To better understand the Swift phenomenon, the Gazette asked some Harvard and Berklee College of Music faculty to assess her
artistry, fan base, the tour’s economic impact, and her place in the industry'.

Gazette: How good is Swift as a songwriter?

Stephanie Burt (poet and Donald P. and Katherine B. Loker Professor of English): She has a terrific ear in terms of how words fit together. She has a sense both of writing songs that convey a feeling that can make you imagine this is the songwriter’s own feelings, like in “We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together,” and a way of telling stories and creating characters. She can write songs that take place at one moment, and she can write songs where the success of verses give you a series of events, like in “Betty” or “Fifteen.” She has a lot of different gifts as a songwriter, both at the macro level, how the song tells a story or presents an attitude, and at the micro level, how the vowels and consonants fit together, and she’s able to exercise that range, along with quite a lot of melodic gifts, and in a way that does not make her seem highbrow or alienate potential audience members. I would not be surprised to discover that her body of songwriting altogether had a larger number of words than any body of comparable hit songs by a comparable songwriter, except for someone like Bob Dylan.

One of the things that’s really remarkable for me about her is that harmonically, she’s not usually that interesting. It’s pretty normal pop chord progressions and pretty standard varieties of pop arrangement. Her great genius and her innovations and her brilliance as a songwriter is melodic and verbal. And, of course, she’s also very good at singing, which is not to be sneezed at. But she’s able to do that within the fairly tight constraints of existing, easily recognizable chord progressions and rhythmic setups. She’s able to create verbal hooks, “I’m only 17. I don’t know anything, but I know I miss you.” They stick in your mind, and you spin stories out from them. That’s just being a good writer. She’s a celebrity with a complicated personal life that has been lived in the public eye for quite some time, and so, people speculate about the meanings of her songs, both because they are complex and meaningful works of art, and because some of them do speak to public facts about her life outside the songs. “Fifteen,” which is a terrific song, gains resonance if you know that it’s about a real person and they’re still friends. But no one would care if it weren’t a brilliantly constructed song. Take something from “Speak Now”: It’s nice to know that “Dear John” is about John Mayer, who really had no business dating a 19-year-old, but it’s also a song about a pattern [of behavior], and it works in itself. There’s all kinds of celebrity gossip about pop stars who maybe have her level of vocal talent and performing talent but happen not to have her level of songwriting talent. Very few people have her songwriting talent.

----------------------------------------

And the article continues on and on about the Taylor Swift phenomenon which you might want to read further before you start outright dismissing her again. > Taylor Swift
As for me, I've gained even more respect for her by reading the article, and if I have any spare time I might even listen to some of her music some day. Until then, gotta give credit where credits due.

_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......

Taking an act that has been in the business so long that the type of music they play has gone out of style and comparing them to a modern day cultural phenomenon is a bit silly.
Taylor Swift reminds me of when I suddenly noticed a 25-0 Mike Tyson.before you know it everything has changed.
She’s finishing up her tour with 6 (six) nights at SoFi in LA.let that sink in-

If you’re not in the States look up SoFi, You’re gonna be shocked.
She currently has four records in the top ten, that hasn’t been done for decades apparently.

Again you can’t compare the Stones to anything happening now let alone Taylor Swift.to put it in context,she was born the year of Steel Wheels.

I don't think the Stones have lost their relevance to 'mainstream culture'

Think about it: their tongue logo is everywhere. Sure, many who adorn their t-shirts may, in fact, not be 'fans, per se, yet the 'brand' is everywhere.

Their relevance to mainstream culture need not have anything to do with their records. The Stones, are so much more. A British institution? Quite possibly.

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lem motlow
Taking an act that has been in the business so long that the type of music they play has gone out of style and comparing them to a modern day cultural phenomenon is a bit silly.
Taylor Swift reminds me of when I suddenly noticed a 25-0 Mike Tyson.before you know it everything has changed.
She’s finishing up her tour with 6 (six) nights at SoFi in LA.let that sink in-

If you’re not in the States look up SoFi, You’re gonna be shocked.
She currently has four records in the top ten, that hasn’t been done for decades apparently.

Again you can’t compare the Stones to anything happening now let alone Taylor Swift.to put it in context,she was born the year of Steel Wheels.

Not sure if relevance is the same thing as enduring importance, probably not, but regarding the latter, the key question is what will be Taylor Swift's standing in 20 years time. Anyone's guess...

Extra high diamond encrusted
heels with gold plated stability wheels ...



ROCKMAN

Yesterday background music "she's like a rainbow" during a beer commercial.

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MartinB



Not sure if relevance is the same thing as enduring importance, probably not, but regarding the latter, the key question is what will be Taylor Swift's standing in 20 years time. Anyone's guess...

That’s a fair point, regarding the likes of Taylor Swift. I don’t know her music, personally, but there’s a part of me that feels it’ll always be a wonderful thing if a creative music-artist is still, today, inspiring countless future generations. Whether hers will, who knows? I know that music doesn’t ‘matter’ in the sense it used to: I still don’t think we’ll ever get another Beatles, Stones, or even an Oasis, for that matter. The day’s when an artist or act went beyond the mere music and shaped a cultural landscape are gone forever, I think.

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MartinB

Not sure if relevance is the same thing as enduring importance, probably not, but regarding the latter, the key question is what will be Taylor Swift's standing in 20 years time. Anyone's guess...

It's hard to predict what will happen in 20 years, Taylor Swift herself was in a little decline in her career in 2018-19 but she rebounded incredibly with that Folklore album that multiplied her fan base by 3 or 4 and is currently at the absolute peak of popularity all over the world, 17 years after the release of her first album, something almost nobody achieved (Michael Jackson in 1987?, Madonna in 2000?, the Stones maybe in the Some Girls-ER-Tattoo You period, Queen when Freddie died?) and her current tour will be the highest grossing in history, she can add stadiums anywhere in the world and sell them out in less than an 1 hour, hell she could do 250-300 shows during the next 2 years and play to over 12-15 million people if she wanted to.

Pop culture is not made to last but to the present time.

The Rolling Stones ceased to be relevant the day they published a new album and nobody cared about. I don't think that day has came yet.

But right The Rolling Stones have not produced anything that big since Start me Up. After that I don't see any single being unquestionably part of a best of...

The Rolling Stones, Exiles On Mainstream since 1972.

www.rsundercover.eu

I don't want to have to read an article to like someone as a songwriter. I would prefer to just listen to the music and judge myself. For me, Taylor Swift, thumbs down. What is relevant to the mainstream usually is some of the worst stuff in regards to music.

They're still relevant to me .

...as to the rest...I don't give a monkey's

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schwonek

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Stoneage
When did the music of The Rolling Stones lose its relevance to mainstream culture?

I mean when did the new music of the Rolling Stones start to lose its grip on the mainstream audience?

Ehm. 12.000.000 views for a new song (just) on YT - I think that is relevance.
[www.youtube.com]

Relevance that 12 000 000 choose to look and listen to crap?

Lots of artist that are crap sell out stadiums and sell craploads of albums. Doesn't mean it is quality. Most people seem to go with the flow and "like" what you're supposed to. For me Taylor Swift have one good record and that is Ryan Adams version of it.