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Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Shott ()
Date: July 17, 2023 01:48

Great scenes in Gimme Shelter too: "If you lay successive numbers of bum trips on these people... "

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Taylor1 ()
Date: July 17, 2023 02:33

Quote
Sighunt
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treaclefingers
RIP...he was so right.

"Ladies and Gentlemen, the Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World...The Rolling Stones!"

Another great individual, part of Stones rock and roll history, who has left us.

I remember this excerpt from that famous interview that Jann Wenner did with Mick Jagger in 1995: "Are the Stones the greatest rock band in the world?"
"It’s just a stupid epithet. It just seems too Barnum and Bailey to me – like it’s some sort of circus act. The first time we heard it said was to introduce us every night. So I used to say, “Will you please not use that as your announcement? It’s so embarrassing. And what does that mean? Does it mean the best, the biggest, the most long-lasting?” You know?"

I can't remember where I read this, but Cutler's response to Jagger was something like, "Either you or you aren't."
For Micks birthday on July 261972, they were thinking of bringing a Barnum and Bailey elephant on stage after the show to wish Mick a happy birthday, but they decided against it.
Rest in peace Sam.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: slakka ()
Date: July 27, 2023 03:21

aauuu just seeing this now. how many of you were at sams book signing Lincoln Center Barns and Noble NYC??? About a dozen of us. Now what ever happened to sam and bill grahams mutual hatred of each other during the 69 tour?? sam carried with the dead till 74. He and graham must of buried the hatchet I suppose.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: July 27, 2023 11:35

RIP Sam Cutler

“HIS BOOK IS A GREAT READ CAUSE HE WAS THERE”

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: July 28, 2023 11:06

RIP Sam - he lived a storied life.

Quote
rayrad
and a believer in the dream to the very end

which dream would that be...?

-swiss







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023-07-28 11:27 by swiss.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: slakka ()
Date: August 21, 2023 23:38

Where's Ronnie Bemused!!??

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 22, 2023 10:07

Quote
slakka
Where's Ronnie Bemused!!??
Probably living his best life...why?

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 22, 2023 12:52

Quote
runaway
RIP Sam Cutler

“HIS BOOK IS A GREAT READ CAUSE HE WAS THERE”

His book is a great read, but he did rewrite history about the involvement of the Hells Angels. After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels, and he takes great effort to downplay the part of the Angels in Altamont. According to Cutler is wasn't the Angels who were violent but kids from neighboring counties. This is utter bullshit.

Also he states that he never got paid by the Stones after he stayed in SF to clear the issues with the Angels. But this was apparently against the orders of the Stones/Jagger, and Jagger has held a grudge towards Cutler ever since, even refusing to meet him when they toured Australia in 2005.

Mathijs

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: runaway ()
Date: August 22, 2023 14:47

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
runaway
RIP Sam Cutler

“HIS BOOK IS A GREAT READ CAUSE HE WAS THERE”

His book is a great read, but he did rewrite history about the involvement of the Hells Angels. After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels, and he takes great effort to downplay the part of the Angels in Altamont. According to Cutler is wasn't the Angels who were violent but kids from neighboring counties. This is utter bullshit.

Also he states that he never got paid by the Stones after he stayed in SF to clear the issues with the Angels. But this was apparently against the orders of the Stones/Jagger, and Jagger has held a grudge towards Cutler ever since, even refusing to meet him when they toured Australia in 2005.

Mathijs

I prefer listening to my bootleg cassettes from the Altamont concert and I'm still amazed
how good The Stones sounded under these dufficult circumstances



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-23 11:47 by runaway.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: slakka ()
Date: August 22, 2023 20:40

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swiss
Quote
slakka
Where's Ronnie Bemused!!??
Probably living his best life...why?

He'd have some worthwhile things to say, yes?

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: paulspendel ()
Date: August 22, 2023 21:27

Sam Cutler asked to meet me in 2022 regarding Brian’s death. I noticed he had teamed up with Geoffrey Giuliano who is to be avoided at all costs. I declined the invitation but quizzed him about his 2009 blog mentioning Klein’s 1969 investigation into Brian’s death. Sam could not deliver the goods. Subsequently I contacted Ronnie Schneider, Klein’s nephew. He confirmed Klein’s efforts to get to the truth, but opposed Cutler’s opinion Klein concluded Tom Keylock was the main culprit.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 22, 2023 23:44

Quote
slakka
Quote
swiss
Quote
slakka
Where's Ronnie Bemused!!??
Probably living his best life...why?

He'd have some worthwhile things to say, yes?

Presumably if he did, he would.
-swiss

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 22, 2023 23:56

Quote
paulspendel
Sam Cutler asked to meet me in 2022 regarding Brian’s death. I noticed he had teamed up with Geoffrey Giuliano who is to be avoided at all costs. I declined the invitation but quizzed him about his 2009 blog mentioning Klein’s 1969 investigation into Brian’s death. Sam could not deliver the goods. Subsequently I contacted Ronnie Schneider, Klein’s nephew. He confirmed Klein’s efforts to get to the truth, but opposed Cutler’s opinion Klein concluded Tom Keylock was the main culprit.

Trying to untangle your comment...sorry not to be getting it. Are you saying Sam out of the blue reached out to you with a request to meet to tell you something about Brian's death, and you declined because...(you don't like someone who Sam has worked with)? but--without finding out specifically what he wanted to share with you--you instead asked him for more details about Allen Klein's looking into Brian's death and he didn't have useful info? Could Sam have had additional info (or a change of heart re: claiming Tom Keylock was the main culprit), but you chose not to engage with him?

-swiss

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 23, 2023 19:50

Quote
paulspendel
Sam Cutler asked to meet me in 2022 regarding Brian’s death. I noticed he had teamed up with Geoffrey Giuliano who is to be avoided at all costs. I declined the invitation but quizzed him about his 2009 blog mentioning Klein’s 1969 investigation into Brian’s death. Sam could not deliver the goods. Subsequently I contacted Ronnie Schneider, Klein’s nephew. He confirmed Klein’s efforts to get to the truth, but opposed Cutler’s opinion Klein concluded Tom Keylock was the main culprit.

Cutler rehashes the same bullshit about the aftermath of Brian's death in his book -all his stuff was stolen, evidence was burned in a bonfire bla di bla.

We all know now that Brian's stuff was collected by his heirs, namely his parents.

Mathijs

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: paulspendel ()
Date: August 23, 2023 21:45

Hi Swiss, Sam wanted to see the last interview we did with Tom Keylock, three months before Tom died in 2009. I had to turn Sam down. The footage is still under wraps. Sam was right about Klein investigating Brian’s death but got the wrong end of the stick. And Mathijs falls into the same category as Geoffrey Giuliano: to be avoided at all costs.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Reagan ()
Date: August 23, 2023 21:52

I'm only just now seeing this. That's too bad. I liked Sam's book. And his write-up of the seeing the band on the 2014 Australia tour (a fb post).

And let's not forget that's Sam playing the car horn on Country Honk.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: rayrad ()
Date: August 24, 2023 12:56

Quote
swiss

Quote
rayrad
and a believer in the dream to the very end

which dream would that be...?

-swiss

ah, well, good question!

i guess it just always seemed to me that sam believed in people - and their ability to be generous and kind - and to make things better

certainly the way he posted on social media suggested that

and that that was maybe the big dream that fuelled the late 60s counterculture

(the professed dream, at least - plenty of people riding along just to get laid and make a buck, of course)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-24 13:01 by rayrad.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 26, 2023 11:14

Quote
rayrad
Quote
swiss

Quote
rayrad
and a believer in the dream to the very end

which dream would that be...?

-swiss

ah, well, good question!

i guess it just always seemed to me that sam believed in people - and their ability to be generous and kind - and to make things better

certainly the way he posted on social media suggested that

and that that was maybe the big dream that fuelled the late 60s counterculture

(the professed dream, at least - plenty of people riding along just to get laid and make a buck, of course)

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

Sam seems to have been aspirational in that regard.

-swiss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-27 13:14 by swiss.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 28, 2023 12:20

Quote
paulspendel
And Mathijs falls into the same category as Geoffrey Giuliano: to be avoided at all costs.

Because I exposed you as a fraud?

Mathijs

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: August 29, 2023 10:00

Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: August 30, 2023 14:09

Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

In just every GD book.

From the start of the band they have befriended Angels, and they have been around forever. During Cutler's years with the band the touring crew was mostly made up of Angels, which caused issues when they played the east coast.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-08-30 18:27 by Mathijs.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: slakka ()
Date: August 31, 2023 19:56

Seem like every time you read about micky harts ranch back in the day it would include..Hells Angels were always coming and going.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: spikenyc ()
Date: August 31, 2023 23:50

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

In just every GD book.

From the start of the band they have befriended Angels, and they have been around forever. During Cutler's years with the band the touring crew was mostly made up of Angels, which caused issues when they played the east coast.

Mathijs

I dont think any of the GD touring crew was an actual Hell's Angel member?
Friends but not members.
You can fact check that with Steve Parrish.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 1, 2023 11:22

Quote
spikenyc
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

In just every GD book.

From the start of the band they have befriended Angels, and they have been around forever. During Cutler's years with the band the touring crew was mostly made up of Angels, which caused issues when they played the east coast.

Mathijs

I dont think any of the GD touring crew was an actual Hell's Angel member?
Friends but not members.
You can fact check that with Steve Parrish.

I am not a Dead fan by any means. This is what I read over the years in various books.

Mathijs

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: September 5, 2023 11:40

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

In just every GD book.

From the start of the band they have befriended Angels, and they have been around forever. During Cutler's years with the band the touring crew was mostly made up of Angels, which caused issues when they played the east coast.

Mathijs

You seem to have conflated 2 topics: (1) Hells Angels being in and around the Grateful Dead milieu, and (2) Sam Cutler's having worked for the Grateful Dead. I believe you might be be hard-pressed to see your claim that "Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels" reflected in "just about every GD book" (or just about any GD book or, credibly, elsewhere).

I'm not even going to ask you to expound om what you think you know about issues the Dead experienced relating to the Hells Angels when they played the East coast, or your assertion that the touring crew was made up of Hells Angels; however, you might want to entertain the possibility that you're somewhat out of your depth here.

-swiss



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-05 11:42 by swiss.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: September 5, 2023 12:39

Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

In just every GD book.

From the start of the band they have befriended Angels, and they have been around forever. During Cutler's years with the band the touring crew was mostly made up of Angels, which caused issues when they played the east coast.

Mathijs

You seem to have conflated 2 topics: (1) Hells Angels being in and around the Grateful Dead milieu, and (2) Sam Cutler's having worked for the Grateful Dead. I believe you might be be hard-pressed to see your claim that "Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels" reflected in "just about every GD book" (or just about any GD book or, credibly, elsewhere).

I'm not even going to ask you to expound om what you think you know about issues the Dead experienced relating to the Hells Angels when they played the East coast, or your assertion that the touring crew was made up of Hells Angels; however, you might want to entertain the possibility that you're somewhat out of your depth here.

-swiss

You are correct -to call them 'friends' might be a wrong term. My understanding is that there was great mutual respect, and they lived like a collective, a brotherhood. In my world that's called friends, but my world is not that of the Grateful Dead or Hells Angels. The crew of the Grateful Dead had deep connections with the Angels, with crew chief Steve Parish being a prospect. The issues with the Angels from the East Coast are clearly described in Cutler's book, as well as in Bill Graham's book.

My point is -I only read Cutler's book the other day, and I found it curious how he downplayed the role of the Angels at Altamont, going as far as saying that the Angels were only drinking beer and having a good time and that 'hicks from another county' were the ones who were aggressive and beating up people. That is simply a false, untrue claim.

Cutler's idea of the Angels as a group of normal people just having a good time, whilst in fact they are a criminal gang of thugs, is in my opinion grounded on his relationship with the Angels during his time with the Dead.

Mathijs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-09-05 13:03 by Mathijs.

Re: R.I.P. Sam Cutler
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: September 6, 2023 04:10

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
swiss
Quote
Mathijs
After his stint with the Stones through his work for The Grateful Dead he befriended a lot of Angels

Mathijs, where did you get that Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels?

-swiss

In just every GD book.

From the start of the band they have befriended Angels, and they have been around forever. During Cutler's years with the band the touring crew was mostly made up of Angels, which caused issues when they played the east coast.

Mathijs

You seem to have conflated 2 topics: (1) Hells Angels being in and around the Grateful Dead milieu, and (2) Sam Cutler's having worked for the Grateful Dead. I believe you might be be hard-pressed to see your claim that "Sam Cutler befriended a lot of Angels" reflected in "just about every GD book" (or just about any GD book or, credibly, elsewhere).

I'm not even going to ask you to expound om what you think you know about issues the Dead experienced relating to the Hells Angels when they played the East coast, or your assertion that the touring crew was made up of Hells Angels; however, you might want to entertain the possibility that you're somewhat out of your depth here.

-swiss

You are correct -to call them 'friends' might be a wrong term. My understanding is that there was great mutual respect, and they lived like a collective, a brotherhood. In my world that's called friends, but my world is not that of the Grateful Dead or Hells Angels. The crew of the Grateful Dead had deep connections with the Angels, with crew chief Steve Parish being a prospect. The issues with the Angels from the East Coast are clearly described in Cutler's book, as well as in Bill Graham's book.

My point is -I only read Cutler's book the other day, and I found it curious how he downplayed the role of the Angels at Altamont, going as far as saying that the Angels were only drinking beer and having a good time and that 'hicks from another county' were the ones who were aggressive and beating up people. That is simply a false, untrue claim.

Cutler's idea of the Angels as a group of normal people just having a good time, whilst in fact they are a criminal gang of thugs, is in my opinion grounded on his relationship with the Angels during his time with the Dead.

Mathijs


I'm going to leave this here for now, while suggesting in matters like Altamont the devil is in the details.
-swiss

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