Anybody know the story on this?

I recall this being asked here a while back. I think the switch was in late 65ish, not sure the reason why though.

Brian was pulling all the chicks on the right.

Probably around the time Bill gave up doing backing vocals, something he was still doing in '67.

It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-24 23:05 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty
It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]

That makes sense!

Thanks for your answers!

According to photos the First Time was in January 1967 for the London Sunday Palladium TV...

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AntoineParis
According to photos the First Time was in January 1967 for the London Sunday Palladium TV...

Look at His Majesty's Youtube link from 1965 up above. Also, HYSYMB vid on Youtube from Royal Albert Hall 66 has Bill standing on Keith's side of the stage.

I am just making this up, so don't take it too seriously. But maybe when the audicience started screaming too much, it was harder to hear each other. And since Wyman needed to hear both Charlie and Keith to know the rhythm, he needed to stand close to both.
Just a wild guess.

Probably, Bill had enough of hearing Brian playing "Popeye the Sailor Man" any longer ...

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His Majesty
It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]

I always imagined it has more to do with simply hearing Keith better and hearing the hi-hat and seeing the kick better to keep time. The stages the Stones played on in the mid 1960's were certainly big enough to accommodate various keyboards and a bass player to one side.

Mathijs

I asked this question some time back. It must have happened sometime mid'65. Maybe Bill went back and forth for a while. When they played Copenhagen in '65 he was over by Keith. When they played the U.S. show Hullabaloo in late '65 Bill was back by Charlie, behind Keith. When they played Satisfaction on Ed Sullivan in '66, Bill is back stage right again, but this time Brian is behind him. After that it appears Bill went to Keith's left permanently. The reason is still unknown. But even with new guitarists Bill stayed stage left of Keith, sometimes behind him there.

I've wondered if it was a visual thing, putting Brian, Keith, and Mick more prominent. Were they ostracizing Brian? It seems obvious that something happened, but the question has never been answered.

But note that on the 1969 tour Keith was on the far left (so Bill was next to Charlie) for the Fort Collins gig and, from photos I have seen, the LA Forum gig.

And for the first show of the 1972 tour in Vancouver he was on Mick Taylor's side....

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john lomax
But note that on the 1969 tour Keith was on the far left (so Bill was next to Charlie) for the Fort Collins gig and, from photos I have seen, the LA Forum gig.

And for the first show of the 1972 tour in Vancouver he was on Mick Taylor's side....

Vancouver 1972 is really weird -Keith is on the far-left side, and Taylor on the right side, with Wyman on the far-right.

LA 1969 Wyman is right behind Jagger and Keith far-right. Looks weird, and Wyman is moving more than I ever seen him move.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

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24FPS
I asked this question some time back. It must have happened sometime mid'65. Maybe Bill went back and forth for a while. When they played Copenhagen in '65 he was over by Keith. When they played the U.S. show Hullabaloo in late '65 Bill was back by Charlie, behind Keith. When they played Satisfaction on Ed Sullivan in '66, Bill is back stage right again, but this time Brian is behind him. After that it appears Bill went to Keith's left permanently. The reason is still unknown. But even with new guitarists Bill stayed stage left of Keith, sometimes behind him there.

I've wondered if it was a visual thing, putting Brian, Keith, and Mick more prominent. Were they ostracizing Brian? It seems obvious that something happened, but the question has never been answered.

The odd one off, NME concert, or tv show isn't really a change. It became permanent on the late 65 North American tour.

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Mathijs

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His Majesty
It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]

I always imagined it has more to do with simply hearing Keith better and hearing the hi-hat and seeing the kick better to keep time. The stages the Stones played on in the mid 1960's were certainly big enough to accommodate various keyboards and a bass player to one side.

Mathijs

Some were, some weren't, like the one in the footage.

This is when the change happens though, a bulky Vox Continental onstage certainly upsets previous on stage layout dynamics. Just saying it ties in with it's arrival onstage.

I'm pretty sure Bill said 'to hear Keith better' when answering email questions from a Brian website years ago. Brian stopped doing backup vocals too, only using a mic for harmonica, so Bill over by Keith makes sense for backing vocal mic sharing too.

I found a scan of a letter Bill sent to a fan in November 1965.

"Dear Judith, many thanks for the very nice card and letter I received from you. Glad you enjoyed the two shows. Why do I stand on the same side as Keith? Well, Keith has taken up vocals instead of Brian. So I stand over with Keith as I help vocals also, and its better if the two are singing vocals stand at the same mike. Hope you understand all that. Glad you enjoyed the films on Top Of The Pops last time. Thanks again, look after yourself +keep smiling Bill Wyman Stones."

Good work, HM!

Bill's back-up singing duties didn't last that long, but probably he thought that 'well, as I happen to stand here now, so shall it be so' ...

But yeah, for the working of crucial Charlie/Bill/Keith rhythm section, and especially seeing/anticipating what the leader of them, Keith, was doing, it was handy to be close to the man, taking the difficulties in hearing each other at the time,

- Doxa

From some of Bill's comments regarding Keith's on stage volume on the Steel Wheels tour...he would then have preferred to be on the other side of another stage, in the next town.

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His Majesty
I found a scan of a letter Bill sent to a fan in November 1965.

"Dear Judith, many thanks for the very nice card and letter I received from you. Glad you enjoyed the two shows. Why do I stand on the same side as Keith? Well, Keith has taken up vocals instead of Brian. So I stand over with Keith as I help vocals also, and its better if the two are singing vocals stand at the same mike. Hope you understand all that. Glad you enjoyed the films on Top Of The Pops last time. Thanks again, look after yourself +keep smiling Bill Wyman Stones."

Excellent, thanks.

Talking of backing vocals... I wonder why not only Bill, but Keith didn't contribute any backing vocals (as far as I recall) at both Rock 'n' Roll Circus '68 and Hyde Park '69? He was clearly more than capable, as proven from the 1969 tour onwards.