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When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: donvis ()
Date: January 24, 2023 22:07

Anybody know the story on this?

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: January 24, 2023 22:34

I recall this being asked here a while back. I think the switch was in late 65ish, not sure the reason why though.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Elmo Lewis ()
Date: January 24, 2023 22:43

Brian was pulling all the chicks on the right.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 24, 2023 22:57

Probably around the time Bill gave up doing backing vocals, something he was still doing in '67.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 24, 2023 23:03

It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023-01-24 23:05 by His Majesty.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: January 25, 2023 00:39

Quote
His Majesty
It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]

That makes sense!

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: donvis ()
Date: January 25, 2023 04:24

Thanks for your answers!

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: AntoineParis ()
Date: January 25, 2023 08:37

According to photos the First Time was in January 1967 for the London Sunday Palladium TV...

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: DGA35 ()
Date: January 25, 2023 09:14

Quote
AntoineParis
According to photos the First Time was in January 1967 for the London Sunday Palladium TV...

Look at His Majesty's Youtube link from 1965 up above. Also, HYSYMB vid on Youtube from Royal Albert Hall 66 has Bill standing on Keith's side of the stage.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: matxil ()
Date: January 25, 2023 10:34

I am just making this up, so don't take it too seriously. But maybe when the audicience started screaming too much, it was harder to hear each other. And since Wyman needed to hear both Charlie and Keith to know the rhythm, he needed to stand close to both.
Just a wild guess.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Meise ()
Date: January 25, 2023 10:46

Probably, Bill had enough of hearing Brian playing "Popeye the Sailor Man" any longer ...

________________________________________

I can't imagine a world without the Rolling Stones! (A. Erthegun)

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 25, 2023 11:11

Quote
His Majesty
It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]

I always imagined it has more to do with simply hearing Keith better and hearing the hi-hat and seeing the kick better to keep time. The stages the Stones played on in the mid 1960's were certainly big enough to accommodate various keyboards and a bass player to one side.

Mathijs

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: January 25, 2023 11:20

I asked this question some time back. It must have happened sometime mid'65. Maybe Bill went back and forth for a while. When they played Copenhagen in '65 he was over by Keith. When they played the U.S. show Hullabaloo in late '65 Bill was back by Charlie, behind Keith. When they played Satisfaction on Ed Sullivan in '66, Bill is back stage right again, but this time Brian is behind him. After that it appears Bill went to Keith's left permanently. The reason is still unknown. But even with new guitarists Bill stayed stage left of Keith, sometimes behind him there.

I've wondered if it was a visual thing, putting Brian, Keith, and Mick more prominent. Were they ostracizing Brian? It seems obvious that something happened, but the question has never been answered.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: john lomax ()
Date: January 25, 2023 11:26

But note that on the 1969 tour Keith was on the far left (so Bill was next to Charlie) for the Fort Collins gig and, from photos I have seen, the LA Forum gig.

And for the first show of the 1972 tour in Vancouver he was on Mick Taylor's side....

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: January 25, 2023 11:54

Quote
john lomax
But note that on the 1969 tour Keith was on the far left (so Bill was next to Charlie) for the Fort Collins gig and, from photos I have seen, the LA Forum gig.

And for the first show of the 1972 tour in Vancouver he was on Mick Taylor's side....

Vancouver 1972 is really weird -Keith is on the far-left side, and Taylor on the right side, with Wyman on the far-right.

LA 1969 Wyman is right behind Jagger and Keith far-right. Looks weird, and Wyman is moving more than I ever seen him move.

[www.youtube.com]

Mathijs

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 25, 2023 13:02

Quote
24FPS
I asked this question some time back. It must have happened sometime mid'65. Maybe Bill went back and forth for a while. When they played Copenhagen in '65 he was over by Keith. When they played the U.S. show Hullabaloo in late '65 Bill was back by Charlie, behind Keith. When they played Satisfaction on Ed Sullivan in '66, Bill is back stage right again, but this time Brian is behind him. After that it appears Bill went to Keith's left permanently. The reason is still unknown. But even with new guitarists Bill stayed stage left of Keith, sometimes behind him there.

I've wondered if it was a visual thing, putting Brian, Keith, and Mick more prominent. Were they ostracizing Brian? It seems obvious that something happened, but the question has never been answered.

The odd one off, NME concert, or tv show isn't really a change. It became permanent on the late 65 North American tour.

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 25, 2023 13:09

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
His Majesty
It ties in with Brian playing organ live, taking up more stage space, during the Stones late 1965 tour of North America.

[youtu.be]

I always imagined it has more to do with simply hearing Keith better and hearing the hi-hat and seeing the kick better to keep time. The stages the Stones played on in the mid 1960's were certainly big enough to accommodate various keyboards and a bass player to one side.

Mathijs

Some were, some weren't, like the one in the footage.

This is when the change happens though, a bulky Vox Continental onstage certainly upsets previous on stage layout dynamics. Just saying it ties in with it's arrival onstage.

I'm pretty sure Bill said 'to hear Keith better' when answering email questions from a Brian website years ago. Brian stopped doing backup vocals too, only using a mic for harmonica, so Bill over by Keith makes sense for backing vocal mic sharing too. thumbs up

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: His Majesty ()
Date: January 31, 2023 13:19

I found a scan of a letter Bill sent to a fan in November 1965.

"Dear Judith, many thanks for the very nice card and letter I received from you. Glad you enjoyed the two shows. Why do I stand on the same side as Keith? Well, Keith has taken up vocals instead of Brian. So I stand over with Keith as I help vocals also, and its better if the two are singing vocals stand at the same mike. Hope you understand all that. Glad you enjoyed the films on Top Of The Pops last time. Thanks again, look after yourself +keep smiling Bill Wyman Stones."

thumbs up

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: January 31, 2023 13:57

Good work, HM!

Bill's back-up singing duties didn't last that long, but probably he thought that 'well, as I happen to stand here now, so shall it be so' ...

But yeah, for the working of crucial Charlie/Bill/Keith rhythm section, and especially seeing/anticipating what the leader of them, Keith, was doing, it was handy to be close to the man, taking the difficulties in hearing each other at the time,

- Doxa

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Spud ()
Date: January 31, 2023 15:48

From some of Bill's comments regarding Keith's on stage volume on the Steel Wheels tour...he would then have preferred to be on the other side of another stage, in the next town.grinning smiley

Re: When and Why did Bill move from Brian’s right to Keith’s left stagewise?
Posted by: Congratulations ()
Date: January 31, 2023 20:48

Quote
His Majesty
I found a scan of a letter Bill sent to a fan in November 1965.

"Dear Judith, many thanks for the very nice card and letter I received from you. Glad you enjoyed the two shows. Why do I stand on the same side as Keith? Well, Keith has taken up vocals instead of Brian. So I stand over with Keith as I help vocals also, and its better if the two are singing vocals stand at the same mike. Hope you understand all that. Glad you enjoyed the films on Top Of The Pops last time. Thanks again, look after yourself +keep smiling Bill Wyman Stones."

thumbs up

Excellent, thanks.

Talking of backing vocals... I wonder why not only Bill, but Keith didn't contribute any backing vocals (as far as I recall) at both Rock 'n' Roll Circus '68 and Hyde Park '69? He was clearly more than capable, as proven from the 1969 tour onwards.



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