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Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: Rockman ()
Date: June 22, 2022 00:56

The Glimmers have been dealin'
with the press since they were eighteen ....
Behind closed doors they'd be rollin on da floor ....



ROCKMAN

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Date: June 22, 2022 02:31

==



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2022-06-22 08:14 by TheflyingDutchman.

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: June 22, 2022 09:39

Quote
FP
Quote
GasLightStreet
At the time Jimmy Miller was not functioning properly. I had to finish the whole record myself, because otherwise there were just the drunks and junkies. I was in L.A. trying to finish the record, up against a deadline. It was a joke.
-Mick Jagger, 2003

Listen, if you believe Mick, you'll believe anything. Once again this is the difference between Mick and me. His recollection is quite honestly bullshit. The only things we did in L.A. were things like, you know, We need three chicks to sing back-up on Let It Loose. Or we need a fiddle player. I mean, just extras. You see, the reason Mick says that is because he doesn't think his vocals are loud enough. But lead vocalists never think their vocals are loud enough. I would never take Mick's recollection of anything seriously. If Mick says that we just took a load of 'grungy' stuff out of France, and really made the record in L.A., that's bullshit.
- Keith Richards, 2009

Not all the lyrics were written in a Nellcote environment. That doesn't mean they're not about Nellcote. But a lot of them were written later in L.A. and they don't reflect the Nellcote thing at all. A lot of them are about going on the road, which was actually what was going to happen next. With Tumbling Dice, there's an outtake I've found that has completely different lyrics. It wasn't until we got to L.A. that I rewrote them. The original lyrics were crap. So it was nothing to do with the original experience of recording the album, if you see what I mean.
- Mick Jagger, 2009

[timeisonourside.com]


Keith's petulant remarks came about the time he was finishing LIFE - not much different than when he had his first solo album coming out and he was tearing Mick down left and right about his "jerk off band" or whatever - because the deluxe reissue of EXILE didn't come out for almost another year (it would be interesting to get the full context of what he said - some of the quotes, like from 2003, are from the Rolling Stone magazine interview that year for the LICKS tour, as I recall).

He has such a bizarre attitude at times, very judgmental and biased. He's admitted he was a junkie but he hasn't ever embraced admitting it. It's just an excuse for his projection, which drowned in jealousy decades ago.

And as much as he slags Mick for saying whatever, Mick's always been quite clear that EXILE wasn't just recorded in France.

As noted by a lot of people over the years, Mick has never said a bad thing about Keith in regard to what Keith has said about Mick. Such a weird dichotomy. At least I think that's the right word.

Great collection of quote, thanks for finding!

Hard to tell the truth really between what Mick and Keith both day, adds to the confusion smiling smiley

Mick tends to feign misrememberance but he has the best memory of anyone. Even Charlie knew the truth. Keith just makes shit up when he has whatever point it is to make yet has his moments of truly remembering things:

Exile is really a mixture of bits and pieces left over from the previous album recorded at Olympic Studios and which, after we got out of the contract with Allen Klein, we didn't want to give him: tracks like Shine a Light, and Sweet Virginia. Those were mixed up with a few slightly more grungy things done in the South of France. It's seen as one album all recorded there and it really wasn't. We just chucked everything in.
- Mick Jagger, 2003


Some songs - Sweet Virginia - were held over from Sticky Fingers. It was the same line-up and I've always felt those two albums kind of fold into each other... there was not much time between them and I think it was all flying out of the same kind of energy.
- Keith Richards


It wasn't made as an album, like you see it there (on the album sleeve). Some of it was made in London, at Olympic. Some of it was made in Mick's house in Berkshire. Then we went to France, and we finished it in L.A. It was just recording, and it was a way of using up old tracks. That's what we did in those days: just recorded. It kept you busy and out of trouble - as you've no doubt recently noticed (refers to Ron Wood's recent amorous troubles) - and it was stuff you could use later.
- Charlie Watts, 2009


[timeisonourside.com]

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: June 22, 2022 09:56

Quote
dcba

I'd venture say that if Mick had had enough of the stones in the mid-70's and had gone solo, Keith would have started a solo band and... he would have probably ended up like Johnny Thunders (broke, dead from OD in a seedy hotel room in the middle of nowhere).
Keith knows very well what he owes Mick, hence the never-ending ressentment.

(sorry about being so OT).

The difference between Johnny Thunders and Keith is that Thunders absolutely had no talent whatsoever, and Keith is one of the best ever songwriter and guitarist.

Mathijs

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: treaclefingers ()
Date: June 22, 2022 09:56

Quote
GasLightStreet
Quote
FP
Quote
GasLightStreet
At the time Jimmy Miller was not functioning properly. I had to finish the whole record myself, because otherwise there were just the drunks and junkies. I was in L.A. trying to finish the record, up against a deadline. It was a joke.
-Mick Jagger, 2003

Listen, if you believe Mick, you'll believe anything. Once again this is the difference between Mick and me. His recollection is quite honestly bullshit. The only things we did in L.A. were things like, you know, We need three chicks to sing back-up on Let It Loose. Or we need a fiddle player. I mean, just extras. You see, the reason Mick says that is because he doesn't think his vocals are loud enough. But lead vocalists never think their vocals are loud enough. I would never take Mick's recollection of anything seriously. If Mick says that we just took a load of 'grungy' stuff out of France, and really made the record in L.A., that's bullshit.
- Keith Richards, 2009

Not all the lyrics were written in a Nellcote environment. That doesn't mean they're not about Nellcote. But a lot of them were written later in L.A. and they don't reflect the Nellcote thing at all. A lot of them are about going on the road, which was actually what was going to happen next. With Tumbling Dice, there's an outtake I've found that has completely different lyrics. It wasn't until we got to L.A. that I rewrote them. The original lyrics were crap. So it was nothing to do with the original experience of recording the album, if you see what I mean.
- Mick Jagger, 2009

[timeisonourside.com]


Keith's petulant remarks came about the time he was finishing LIFE - not much different than when he had his first solo album coming out and he was tearing Mick down left and right about his "jerk off band" or whatever - because the deluxe reissue of EXILE didn't come out for almost another year (it would be interesting to get the full context of what he said - some of the quotes, like from 2003, are from the Rolling Stone magazine interview that year for the LICKS tour, as I recall).

He has such a bizarre attitude at times, very judgmental and biased. He's admitted he was a junkie but he hasn't ever embraced admitting it. It's just an excuse for his projection, which drowned in jealousy decades ago.

And as much as he slags Mick for saying whatever, Mick's always been quite clear that EXILE wasn't just recorded in France.

As noted by a lot of people over the years, Mick has never said a bad thing about Keith in regard to what Keith has said about Mick. Such a weird dichotomy. At least I think that's the right word.

Great collection of quote, thanks for finding!

Hard to tell the truth really between what Mick and Keith both day, adds to the confusion smiling smiley

Mick tends to feign misrememberance but he has the best memory of anyone. Even Charlie knew the truth. Keith just makes shit up when he has whatever point it is to make yet has his moments of truly remembering things:

Exile is really a mixture of bits and pieces left over from the previous album recorded at Olympic Studios and which, after we got out of the contract with Allen Klein, we didn't want to give him: tracks like Shine a Light, and Sweet Virginia. Those were mixed up with a few slightly more grungy things done in the South of France. It's seen as one album all recorded there and it really wasn't. We just chucked everything in.
- Mick Jagger, 2003


Some songs - Sweet Virginia - were held over from Sticky Fingers. It was the same line-up and I've always felt those two albums kind of fold into each other... there was not much time between them and I think it was all flying out of the same kind of energy.
- Keith Richards


It wasn't made as an album, like you see it there (on the album sleeve). Some of it was made in London, at Olympic. Some of it was made in Mick's house in Berkshire. Then we went to France, and we finished it in L.A. It was just recording, and it was a way of using up old tracks. That's what we did in those days: just recorded. It kept you busy and out of trouble - as you've no doubt recently noticed (refers to Ron Wood's recent amorous troubles) - and it was stuff you could use later.
- Charlie Watts, 2009


[timeisonourside.com]

Well Exile's reputation as a time and place (Nellcotte '71) is really a stand-in for a band finding/fighting its way to becoming "the greatest rock and roll band in the world" from 1968 through 71. That 3 or 4 year period was the massive breakthrough, aided and enhanced by MT, but STILL would have happened even without him.

As all those quotes show, pretty clearly, they were on that path and Nellcote just happened to be a place they all coexisted for reasons of money, but this music would have been created to one extent or another no matter where they were...not saying they weren't influenced by that location or the lifestyle that it brought, but they already WERE that band in 1971.

And after that massive artistic growth, they crashed with GHS. Still musically competent but now surpassed by the competition, and forever riding on the coattails of that mammoth achievement ending with EOMS.

And this is just my opinion and I love the later stuff, and there have been flashes of greatness since then, but for that brief period they were untouchable.

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: June 23, 2022 11:27

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
FP
I am intrigued by this info to find out when Loving Cup was recorded then? I thought it was one of the Exile tracks completely recorded in LA rather than started in Nellcôte and finished at Sunset Sound (despite earlier alternate versions floating about). However everyone's info seems to suggest Charlie and Bill may have only been there briefly and possibly not contributed to the session?

To date it is for most tracks still difficult to really confirm where they were recorded. My personal best guess is"

Nellcote:

Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Casino Boogie, Tumbling Dice, Happy, Turd on the Run, All Down the Line, Ventilator Blues, Soul Survivor

Olympic Studios:

Shake Your Hips, Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel, Loving Cup, Torn and Frayed, I Just Wanna See His Face, Let it Loose, Stop Breaking Down, Shine A Light

If there is any distinction to be made it appears that what are considered more 'Keith' songs came from Nellcote and the more 'Mick' songs from Olympic.

Overdubs were done in LA, with session people like Billy Preston and especially Dr.John really important. I think Dr. John's influence and network of musicians is vital for the atmosphere of Exile -much of what we consider the 'Nellcote' vibe is more due to Dr. John than the tracks being recorded there.

Mathijs

One correction though -Sweet Black Angel was recorded at Stargroves.

Mathijs

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: June 23, 2022 15:01

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
FP
I am intrigued by this info to find out when Loving Cup was recorded then? I thought it was one of the Exile tracks completely recorded in LA rather than started in Nellcôte and finished at Sunset Sound (despite earlier alternate versions floating about). However everyone's info seems to suggest Charlie and Bill may have only been there briefly and possibly not contributed to the session?

To date it is for most tracks still difficult to really confirm where they were recorded. My personal best guess is"

Nellcote:

Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Casino Boogie, Tumbling Dice, Happy, Turd on the Run, All Down the Line, Ventilator Blues, Soul Survivor

Olympic Studios:

Shake Your Hips, Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel, Loving Cup, Torn and Frayed, I Just Wanna See His Face, Let it Loose, Stop Breaking Down, Shine A Light

If there is any distinction to be made it appears that what are considered more 'Keith' songs came from Nellcote and the more 'Mick' songs from Olympic.

Overdubs were done in LA, with session people like Billy Preston and especially Dr.John really important. I think Dr. John's influence and network of musicians is vital for the atmosphere of Exile -much of what we consider the 'Nellcote' vibe is more due to Dr. John than the tracks being recorded there.

Mathijs

One correction though -Sweet Black Angel was recorded at Stargroves.

Mathijs

I thought there were a couple songs from Stargroves. Maybe I’m thinking of one of the outtakes on the bonus disk.

Jim Price recalls playing organ on Torn And Frayed at Nellcote. I think he said he didn’t even know they were recording it.

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: June 23, 2022 15:57

Quote
TravelinMan
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
Mathijs
Quote
FP
I am intrigued by this info to find out when Loving Cup was recorded then? I thought it was one of the Exile tracks completely recorded in LA rather than started in Nellcôte and finished at Sunset Sound (despite earlier alternate versions floating about). However everyone's info seems to suggest Charlie and Bill may have only been there briefly and possibly not contributed to the session?

To date it is for most tracks still difficult to really confirm where they were recorded. My personal best guess is"

Nellcote:

Rocks Off, Rip This Joint, Casino Boogie, Tumbling Dice, Happy, Turd on the Run, All Down the Line, Ventilator Blues, Soul Survivor

Olympic Studios:

Shake Your Hips, Sweet Virginia, Sweet Black Angel, Loving Cup, Torn and Frayed, I Just Wanna See His Face, Let it Loose, Stop Breaking Down, Shine A Light

If there is any distinction to be made it appears that what are considered more 'Keith' songs came from Nellcote and the more 'Mick' songs from Olympic.

Overdubs were done in LA, with session people like Billy Preston and especially Dr.John really important. I think Dr. John's influence and network of musicians is vital for the atmosphere of Exile -much of what we consider the 'Nellcote' vibe is more due to Dr. John than the tracks being recorded there.

Mathijs

One correction though -Sweet Black Angel was recorded at Stargroves.

Mathijs

I thought there were a couple songs from Stargroves. Maybe I’m thinking of one of the outtakes on the bonus disk.

Jim Price recalls playing organ on Torn And Frayed at Nellcote. I think he said he didn’t even know they were recording it.

Yes, 2 or 3 of the Deluxe tracks were from Stargroves.

Mathijs

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: exilestones ()
Date: June 24, 2022 02:14


Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: willnash ()
Date: June 27, 2022 13:42

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I too had thought that some tracks had been done entirely in LA. And now I also don't think so anymore. I base that on the remarks by people who were there; the same ones that have already been quoted. Also on the genesis of certain songs. E.g. we know that "Lovin Cup", and ADTL had been kicking around. "Virginia" had also been around.
'All Down the Line" is an interesting question. It is such a rocker; it was started before Nellcote. It has a Keithian feel. It stands to reason that they would have hit that one early on. Jagger is a fan of the song too. Yet - the sheer quality of the recording; the tightness of the Bass/Drums/ Rhythm guitar points to a more sophisticated studio setting.
'Stop Breakin Down' is another odd one out. No Keith; and a cover. Wonder when it got in there.

Edit - I just realized this has nothing to do with original question.


Speaking to Robert Greenfield in December 1972 Ian Stewart says in my book Stu

I guess they laid some tracks down in LA though?

Didn’t lay any tracks there.

They didn’t? They just mixed?

Yes, it was just mixing.

How could they mix for so long? Do you understand that?

No, I don’t. Other groups mix albums in a day or two.

What do you think of Exile? Did they mix too much?

It’s a bit overdone, I think. But at the same time I quite like it. Because the feel is there, you know.

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: FP ()
Date: June 30, 2022 13:18

Quote
willnash
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I too had thought that some tracks had been done entirely in LA. And now I also don't think so anymore. I base that on the remarks by people who were there; the same ones that have already been quoted. Also on the genesis of certain songs. E.g. we know that "Lovin Cup", and ADTL had been kicking around. "Virginia" had also been around.
'All Down the Line" is an interesting question. It is such a rocker; it was started before Nellcote. It has a Keithian feel. It stands to reason that they would have hit that one early on. Jagger is a fan of the song too. Yet - the sheer quality of the recording; the tightness of the Bass/Drums/ Rhythm guitar points to a more sophisticated studio setting.
'Stop Breakin Down' is another odd one out. No Keith; and a cover. Wonder when it got in there.

Edit - I just realized this has nothing to do with original question.


Speaking to Robert Greenfield in December 1972 Ian Stewart says in my book Stu

I guess they laid some tracks down in LA though?

Didn’t lay any tracks there.

They didn’t? They just mixed?

Yes, it was just mixing.

How could they mix for so long? Do you understand that?

No, I don’t. Other groups mix albums in a day or two.

What do you think of Exile? Did they mix too much?

It’s a bit overdone, I think. But at the same time I quite like it. Because the feel is there, you know.

Interesting info thanks!

So more evidence that LA was focused on mixing although we are fairly certain some overdubs did occur (Dr John etc) there. Perhaps Stu was not present for those sessions but was for the mixing portion, this is why he thinks it too a long time to mix because it was a bit of both mixing and overdubs?

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: June 30, 2022 15:09

They weren’t supposed to be recording (including overdubs) so I believe Stu was keeping it confidential. They obviously did overdubs, but there were no band sessions laying down new songs from scratch.

They did however start new songs and overdub in LA after coming back from Hawaii (after Jamaica) for Goats Head Soup. I believe Silver Train was re-recorded there from scratch, among others.

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: GasLightStreet ()
Date: July 1, 2022 07:13

Quote
willnash
Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
I too had thought that some tracks had been done entirely in LA. And now I also don't think so anymore. I base that on the remarks by people who were there; the same ones that have already been quoted. Also on the genesis of certain songs. E.g. we know that "Lovin Cup", and ADTL had been kicking around. "Virginia" had also been around.
'All Down the Line" is an interesting question. It is such a rocker; it was started before Nellcote. It has a Keithian feel. It stands to reason that they would have hit that one early on. Jagger is a fan of the song too. Yet - the sheer quality of the recording; the tightness of the Bass/Drums/ Rhythm guitar points to a more sophisticated studio setting.
'Stop Breakin Down' is another odd one out. No Keith; and a cover. Wonder when it got in there.

Edit - I just realized this has nothing to do with original question.


Speaking to Robert Greenfield in December 1972 Ian Stewart says in my book Stu

I guess they laid some tracks down in LA though?

Didn’t lay any tracks there.

They didn’t? They just mixed?

Yes, it was just mixing.

How could they mix for so long? Do you understand that?

No, I don’t. Other groups mix albums in a day or two.


What do you think of Exile? Did they mix too much?

It’s a bit overdone, I think. But at the same time I quite like it. Because the feel is there, you know.

Please specify.

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: Mathijs ()
Date: July 1, 2022 11:35

Quote
TravelinMan
They weren’t supposed to be recording (including overdubs) so I believe Stu was keeping it confidential. They obviously did overdubs, but there were no band sessions laying down new songs from scratch.

They were supposed to be recording, they booked the small studio B for 6 weeks to record vocals and do overdubs, and booked many musicians for the sessions which you can't do in the US without permits from the Union. Also the Stones received working permits for the sessions and for the upcoming rehearsals and tour.

Mathijs

Re: Which Stones were present at Exile Sunset Sound overdub sessions?
Posted by: TravelinMan ()
Date: July 1, 2022 14:48

Quote
Mathijs
Quote
TravelinMan
They weren’t supposed to be recording (including overdubs) so I believe Stu was keeping it confidential. They obviously did overdubs, but there were no band sessions laying down new songs from scratch.

They were supposed to be recording, they booked the small studio B for 6 weeks to record vocals and do overdubs, and booked many musicians for the sessions which you can't do in the US without permits from the Union. Also the Stones received working permits for the sessions and for the upcoming rehearsals and tour.

Mathijs

They did not pay the union, hence they were not supposed to be recording. There are multiple stories of them pretending to mix when the union rep dropped by unannounced.

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